[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[StrawberryZebra]

Honestly this was my biggest disconnect with story so far because I don't feel bad for Nidhogg.

I've been working on leveling Dragoon over the weekend and the fact that the story is centered around the Nidhoggs' eye, a problem which has long since been resolved, is laughable.

Then again, I do also think that class story quests were a dumb idea to begin with for partly for reasons like these. Also I really don't care about whatever world changing crisis you want me to avert, just show me how to do the backflip!

[Dugna]

I've been working on leveling Dragoon over the weekend and the fact that the story is centered around the Nidhoggs' eye, a problem which has long since been resolved, is laughable.

Then again, I do also think that class story quests were a dumb idea to begin with for partly for reasons like these. Also I really don't care about whatever world changing crisis you want me to avert, just show me how to do the backflip!

Well considering Niddhogg's eye was used for the assault on Ishgard, the summoning of Shinryu, which in turn got us to use Omega. Etc etc them eyes are certainly important.

most of the small things in FF14's story just cascade into the further expacs and either keep growing or stay a threat throughout even if the physical item itself is gone and effects stay.

[Rogalicus]

Well considering Niddhogg's eye was used for the assault on Ishgard, the summoning of Shinryu, which in turn got us to use Omega. Etc etc them eyes are certainly important.

most of the small things in FF14's story just cascade into the further expacs and either keep growing or stay a threat throughout even if the physical item itself is gone and effects stay.

I think the problem is potential to experience the first part (Estinien running away from Ishgard with the Eye, as he thinks that's what Nidhogg is pursuing) last, because it's DRG's level 30-50 job quests.

[RohanV]

Nidhogg is like the old man in the retirement home still holding a grudge against Matt Dublowski for taking his spot on the high school football team, so he convinces his grandkids that Matt's grandkids are losers who should get beat up. So it's not compelling in it's depth so much as it's just kinda...sad. It still needs to be stopped, but it's still just a sign of a sad little man.

I don't think it's reasonable to equate "killing his sister" with "taking his spot on the high school football team".

[dope_danny]

Well considering Niddhogg's eye was used for the assault on Ishgard, the summoning of Shinryu, which in turn got us to use Omega. Etc etc them eyes are certainly important.

most of the small things in FF14's story just cascade into the further expacs and either keep growing or stay a threat throughout even if the physical item itself is gone and effects stay.

Like a certain white mage in the first few quests who just wants her tank husband to succeed on the quest...

[Hyral]

Don't see what the problem is with job quests. Even if you are doing them at a time where the plot isn't really on the spotlight anymore it's still nice to get a bit of a side story related to the event or backstory you otherwise wouldn't even know about. Plus I really like most of the characters from the job quests and always look forward to seeing how they are doing between expacs. Except the warrior quests. What a load of useless crap.

[Dugna]

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/421185
Letter from producer on their forum with a new release date and little more info also another live setup, they had to delay a bit more to August 11th

[Delever]

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/421185
Letter from producer on their forum with a new release date and little more info also another live setup, they had to delay a bit more to August 11th

Holy fucking yikes.....

[Poppincaps]

Damn 2 month delay is rough, but July was going to be packed with Ghosts of Tsushima, the new Temtem update, and getting through some of my backlog anyways so I'm not too fussed about it.

[Wrecktangle]

It's called an analogy, not an equating.

The point wasn't even the event itself, it was the old man clinging to it for the rest of his life and dragging future generations into it.

To be fair though, Dragons in media (incl FF) don't tend to experience time as the more mortal races do. Dragging future generations into your biases/beliefs, etc. is standard for a lot of races in the real world too so it's not unwarranted that mythological races would also adhere to it.

[The Offbeat]

To be fair though, Dragons in media (incl FF) don't tend to experience time as the more mortal races do. Dragging future generations into your biases/beliefs, etc. is standard for a lot of races in the real world too so it's not unwarranted that mythological races would also adhere to it.

Yeah, not to mention they didn't kill her out of accident or in war, it was Betrayal, to gain her powers. And when Nidhogg went out for vengeance they kinda stole his eyes too. Pair that with intense hatred that was left in the oven for a thousand years, and you've a recipe for angry dragon.

[KrayZ33]

A big part about the Dragonsong War is actually about whether Ishgard deserves its fate or not.
Even they themselves thought they deserved it - depending on which NPC you ask.

So Nidhogg's eternal rage turns from "unreasonable - he's the bad guy" to "this guy has more than enough reason to wipe them all out"

Bovinity Divinity is right about it not being about him so much. Though his example makes Nidhogg sound like he acted without real reason.

[Rogalicus]

A big part about the Dragonsong War is actually about whether Ishgard deserves its fate or not.
Even they themselves thought they deserved it - depending on which NPC you ask.

So Nidhogg's eternal rage turns from "unreasonable - he's the bad guy" to "this guy has more than enough reason to wipe them all out"

More like whether the country is responsible for what one power hungry king with his knights did millenium ago.

[Hyral]

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...01#post5374601

So 5.3 release date is August 11th... This must be an Ascian plot to bring the next calamity through a Flood of Boredom.

- - - Updated - - -

So Nidhogg's eternal rage turns from "unreasonable - he's the bad guy" to "this guy has more than enough reason to wipe them all out"

Not at all. His sister was killed. Tragic but nowhere "enough reason" to wipe out anyone, much less to submit generations of people to vengeful bloodletting.

[KrayZ33]

Not at all. His sister was killed. Tragic but nowhere "enough reason" to wipe out anyone, much less to submit generations of people to vengeful bloodletting.

But that's not all that has happened.
Or do we just ignore the fact that both his eyes got ripped out and he nearly died, for example?

[Hyral]

But that's not all that has happened.
Or do we just ignore the fact that both his eyes got ripped out and he nearly died, for example?

His primary motivation was vengeance for Ratatoskr. And none of that is enough reason to wipe out everyone either.

[StrawberryZebra]

The Nidhogg storyline I thought was more about Estinien and his journey to being redeemed. Simply because it's extremely similar to the story around Kain from FF4, a character which Estinien has more than a passing resemblence to.

I just barreled through the Heavensward story at top speed, but I was under the impression that the gut punch moment at the end of the story was intended to be that the Knights of the Round Table (Whatever it was they were actually called) and King Thorndran (Thordran? Something like that?) could become a Primal though nothing more than the devotion of the people.

Mostly because it implies that the Player is pretty much the same kind of deal - They get their power from the praise and devotion of the people of Eorzea and are potentially just the right catalyst away from becoming a Primal themselves.

[KrayZ33]

the Knights of the Round Table (Whatever it was they were actually called) and King Thorndran (Thordran? Something like that?) could become a Primal though nothing more than the devotion of the people.

Mostly because it implies that the Player is pretty much the same kind of deal - They get their power from the praise and devotion of the people of Eorzea and are potentially just the right catalyst away from becoming a Primal themselves.

That was actually explained earlier with Shiva then, was it not?
But that's not really what summons it, that's just what decides the form

[StrawberryZebra]

That was actually explained earlier with Shiva then, was it not?
But that's not really what summons it, that's just what decides the form

Shiva was the revelation that a human (Elezen, whatever) could become a Primal. The idea that King Thingy's Band of Merry Men got more powerful the more of the people that idolised them was the real shocker. Because that is exactly what happens to the player - The more good deeds you do and the more your reputation as the Warrior of Light grows, the more powerful you become.

It's even mechanically reinforced, you do quests for people in need, you get XP that allows you to acquire more power. While King whats'-his-name needs a catalyst to transform into a primal Shiva only needed to accept the power that was offered IIRC. It leaves us, the player, in a place where we're theoretically one level up away from becoming the same.

It's one of the few times where the games mechanics line up with the story, which is probably why it's one of the few plot points I actually cared to remember

[KrayZ33]

It's one of the few times where the games mechanics line up with the story, which is probably why it's one of the few plot points I actually cared to remember

I think you probably remember it wrong though, you need aether to turn or create a primal, the heretics gathered crystals and that's how Iceheart turned into Shiva (or what enables her to do that alongside her Echo). The believers just gave that Primal the force of Shiva in terms of form and how she fights, after all Shiva has nothing to do with ice and is a mix of Halone (the ishgardian main deity/patron) and Saint Shiva or Lady Iceheart .
Same thing with Thordan, he used the aether inside the dragon's eye, to turn into a primal, the prayers of his followers is what gave him the form of Thordan.