1. #48341
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Speaking of which, do we know why they keep splitting the last X.5 patch into two parts?
    Padding, mostly. I kind of get it - it's usually a slightly longer wait between a patch and an expansion compared to a patch and another patch.

  2. #48342
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    hehe - you might be surprised Week 1 pugs are some of the best players I've played with in Savage. better than my static, but we also have a pretty solid static this time, except I have a new co-tank, but he's also 95%+ so this should be a good tier for us.
    Oh man

    I was doing some Emerald runs with my new static. One of them is a completely new player and he picked BLM.
    Poor soul, me and my friends who merged with that new statics are trying to convince him to play RDM or something.
    The logs are so sad. He is obviously not doing so good but trying so hard.

    When you look at the logs, you get like:

    85 percentile
    83 percentile
    77 percentile
    9 percentile

    What should I do? Seems to be a nice guy, he would probably start leveling a different character too if we really told him to do it. But at the same time, I kinda don't want to because it might feel awkward for him or maybe he doesn't truely want it and it would just alienate him
    It's not like he can't get better, but for progress and the first class in this MMO? I feel like it was a horrible choice. He will be dead on the floor more often than not with a class like that. Especially since I head that E9-12 is much more complex than E1-E8 has been so far

    Even I wouldn't play it for progress.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2020-12-17 at 11:50 PM.

  3. #48343
    Extreme and Savage content isn't that hard. You don't need to be playing perfect - dodging every mechanic AND doing your rotation perfectly - in order to clear.

    I'd tell him not to worry too much about doing his rotation perfectly, and instead just focus on dodging the mechanics. The static's goal should be to first get consistently to enrage, and THEN start worrying about optimizing damage to get the clear.

  4. #48344
    I always go as RDM or MCH when learning a fight. Both have a lot of potential for movement/positioning. RDM of course has the benefit of an easy raise which is valuable in progression.

  5. #48345
    Quote Originally Posted by Dudenoso View Post
    Something tells me the ARR dialogue would have been quite different if the Ascian backstory had been decided since the beginning. Ergo "that's a retcon".
    Like Granyala said, those lines make perfect sense. I don't know if they had the outline of the story from all the way back then but they certainly build up from that dialogue aswell. That's what I like about this game. Unlike wow where if you go back a certain character no longer makes sense because they decided to change it up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dudenoso View Post
    Not one player thought they weren't EVULZ before 5.0 ( or maybe the last tail of SB? can't quite recall if Emet was foreshadowed to being more than a drama queen in the end of SB )
    Some people still think they are, even after Emet and Elidibus. So I ain't looking too much into it.

  6. #48346
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    Then just when things start happening, it ends on a cliffhanger.
    Well, at least the DEVs are consistent.

  7. #48347
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Oh man

    I was doing some Emerald runs with my new static. One of them is a completely new player and he picked BLM.
    Poor soul, me and my friends who merged with that new statics are trying to convince him to play RDM or something.
    The logs are so sad. He is obviously not doing so good but trying so hard.

    When you look at the logs, you get like:

    85 percentile
    83 percentile
    77 percentile
    9 percentile

    What should I do? Seems to be a nice guy, he would probably start leveling a different character too if we really told him to do it. But at the same time, I kinda don't want to because it might feel awkward for him or maybe he doesn't truely want it and it would just alienate him
    It's not like he can't get better, but for progress and the first class in this MMO? I feel like it was a horrible choice. He will be dead on the floor more often than not with a class like that. Especially since I head that E9-12 is much more complex than E1-E8 has been so far

    Even I wouldn't play it for progress.
    You give him a chance to improve. If he doesn't do it in a meaningful time period you replace him and explain to him why and make sure to still include him in other less performance demanding activities.

    E9-12 is significantly tighter than 1-8 was in my experience. It's not so much that the mechanics are harder, but their windows are much tighter (like Shiva) on the earlier fights which is strange.

    I actually had to retire. I was holding my group back. I didn't cap tomes the first week and didn't do any research on the fights or what good PLDs are doing these days. I started a new job 7 months ago literally right as covid shut down so I never got any training or assistance with my new role and it's been a struggle bus because sitting at my desk working and then trying to game right after just crushes any desire to be at my PC. I'm one of the few people who doesn't actually enjoy the WFH life full time.

    If anyone is an expert in RPA hit me up

  8. #48348
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Like Granyala said, those lines make perfect sense. I don't know if they had the outline of the story from all the way back then but they certainly build up from that dialogue aswell

    No. You are the agent of the "goddess" who literally destroyed his world and killed everyone he ever loved and cared for, for thousands of years (remember that they were immortal). And not just that but for the past few thousand years it was always agents of Hydaelyn trying to piss on his plans and efforts to bring back his loved ones. I'd be pissed off too.
    Not one of the arguments ya guys are using could have been made before July/2019. Not one of you would have argued that Ascians weren't generic evil villains before 2019. His praetorium lines can be summed as... "mama crystal bad, my god good".

    If you recall, my original point was that the Ascian backstory was a retcon. Not ONE player thought they were anything more than those evil asshats before ShB

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Not at all, his lines in the praetorium make perfect sense, now that we know about it. I'm pretty sure that they had the outline of the story right from the start.
    If they had planned for Ascians not to be a cartoon villain back in ARR, Lahabrea's ratio of evil laughter/actual dialogue would be far smaller.

  9. #48349
    Quote Originally Posted by Dudenoso View Post
    If they had planned for Ascians not to be a cartoon villain back in ARR, Lahabrea's ratio of evil laughter/actual dialogue would be far smaller.
    This is my understanding of the evolution of the Ascians:

    • 1.0: Only one Ascian, Travanchet, who appears in the Limsa intro. There is nothing to imply that there are 12/13/14 Ascians or lesser or greater Ascians or whatever. Zodiark did not exist in 1.0. They're just bad guys who don't cast shadows and wear spooky robes.
    • After 1.0's launch, Yoshida comes in and a new story is written.
    • The ARR 2.0 story was thrown together in 6 months and heavily rushed.
    • In ARR 2.0 lesser black mask Ascians are introduced. Zodiark is introduced. A new Ascian, Lahabrea, is introduced.
    • Crystal Tower storyline was written to be self contained. There was no thought of this being brought back in the main story at the time.
    • ARR patch cycle introduces Elidibus and the Convocation of 12/13/ Greater Ascians.
    • Warriors of Darkness arc for HW is written. There was no thought of this being brought back in the main story at the time.
    • HW patch cycle reveals that Emperor Solus passes away. Emet-Selch had not been conceived of at the time.
    • Stormblood launches, Yoshi-P and the writers begin thinking up the next expansion.
    • Shadowbringers is conceived. Crystal Tower and Warriors of Darkness arc tied into the expansion. Emperor Solus is in a convenient position to be retconned into being an Ascian, Emet-Selch. Ascian backstory is conceived. The Sound is conceived.
    • Stormblood patch cycle foreshadows the Azem reveal.

    My question is: what plan did they have for Zenos at the time of writing 4.0? Was he meant to be a one and done villain for 4.0? Because he comes back very quickly, and he does nothing after 4.0 to 5.3. So by the time he came back in 4.3, they must have had a plan for his involvement in 6.0? Perhaps they came up with an idea for Zenos and 6.0 while writing Shadowbringers right after the launch of Stormblood?

    - - - Updated - - -

    I also want to know what they were thinking for Varis. He was introduced in HW 3.0, and from 3.0 to 4.0 it seemed like they were setting him up to be the big bad of the political/war storyline. But then he gets killed off in 5.0 and the Garlemald story gets sidelined in favor of the Ascian/Sound story, which was written right after Stormblood 4.0 came out. So in the span of one expansion, they went from introducing Varis with the intention to do... something with him, and then in the next writing cycle they apparently just went "nah" and retconned him into being crazy evil and then just killed him off and jettisoned whatever plans they had for him?
    Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss; 2020-12-18 at 10:12 PM.

  10. #48350
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    This is my understanding of the evolution of the Ascians:

    • 1.0: Only one Ascian, Travanchet, who appears in the Limsa intro. There is nothing to imply that there are 12/13/14 Ascians or lesser or greater Ascians or whatever. Zodiark did not exist in 1.0. They're just bad guys who don't cast shadows and wear spooky robes.
    • After 1.0's launch, Yoshida comes in and a new story is written.
    • The ARR 2.0 story was thrown together in 6 months and heavily rushed.
    • In ARR 2.0 lesser black mask Ascians are introduced. Zodiark is introduced. A new Ascian, Lahabrea, is introduced.
    • Crystal Tower storyline was written to be self contained. There was no thought of this being brought back in the main story at the time.
    • ARR patch cycle introduces Elidibus and the Convocation of 12/13/ Greater Ascians.
    • Warriors of Darkness arc for HW is written. There was no thought of this being brought back in the main story at the time.
    • HW patch cycle reveals that Emperor Solus passes away. Emet-Selch had not been conceived of at the time.
    • Stormblood launches, Yoshi-P and the writers begin thinking up the next expansion.
    • Shadowbringers is conceived. Crystal Tower and Warriors of Darkness arc tied into the expansion. Emperor Solus is in a convenient position to be retconned into being an Ascian, Emet-Selch. Ascian backstory is conceived. The Sound is conceived.
    • Stormblood patch cycle foreshadows the Azem reveal.
    The bolded ones are wrong. They create key plot points 2 expansions ahead. They already thought up Shadowbringers when the HW patch cycle was happening. And if they did that then they already had plans for Emet. Maybe not in fine detail, sure. But key plot points already existed.

  11. #48351
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    The bolded ones are wrong. They create key plot points 2 expansions ahead. They already thought up Shadowbringers when the HW patch cycle was happening. And if they did that then they already had plans for Emet. Maybe not in fine detail, sure. But key plot points already existed.
    I know from interviews that they create 1 expansion ahead (writing HW during ARR, writing Stormblood right after HW came out, writing Shadowbringers right after Stormblood came out), but I've never heard that they write 2 expansions ahead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamerescape
    The development process for Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers started in Summer of 2017 shortly after the release of Final Fantasy XIV: Stormblood. Producer and Director Naoki Yoshida approached the team with a few directives: “Let’s go to the First!”, and “It would be cool to add trusts and bring the Scions into the dungeons.”
    Link

    According to the article, after Stormblood launched, Yoshida and Ishikawa and Oda went behind closed doors in an office and did a boot camp for a few days and brainstormed the story of Shadowbringers, and the 5.0 story went through several rewrites. Emet didn't even exist in the first draft (and this was AFTER Stormblood had launched, mind you, so there was absolutely no intention of Solus being Emet at the time of ARR and HW).

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamerescape
    Her first draft of the full Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers main scenario had Ascians, Ardbert, the Crystal Exarch’s narrative and the Scions plot lines. An interesting omission from that draft was Vauthry’s sections, as the Sin Eaters were originally controlled by Eden. The idea of restoring night to the areas of the world one by one by defeating the Lightwardens was not featured at all. In fact, there was only Eden as the final boss.
    Link

    Neither Emet-Selch nor Solus are mentioned in this first draft, not even as antagonist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twinfinite Interview
    Naoki Yoshida: Before Stormblood we thought that there should have been a link between the Ascians and Garlemald, and we realized that everything made more sense if Garlemald was actually a creation of the Ascian.

    We had this ancient character, emperor Solus, and we thought that using him worked in our favor. That’s the background of the inception of the Ascian as they are now.

    Also, Emperor Varis has been experimenting on creating clones in Garlemald, and he is involved with Solus as well.

    Ishikawa-san wished to humanize the Ascians and Emet-Selch, and to explore them as characters instead of leaving their vision unclear.

    The idea of Emet Selch drew inspiration from Jack Sparrow from the Pirates of the Caribbeanm series, with the goal of adding more human elements on top of that.
    Link

    Yoshida admits that Garlemald and Solus were not intended this way until they began writing Shadowbringers, when they retconned them because it was convenient.


    As for the Crystal Tower series:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamerescape
    Gamer Escape: One of the bigger elements of Shadowbringers is the Crystal Exarch. When did you decide that you would bring back G’raha Tia?

    Ishikawa: When we first introduced the Crystal Tower series and the conclusion it had, the team did have this feeling of “Oh we would love to have him come back in some way, some time” and we still hadn’t pinpointed when we wanted to introduce him back. Those two ideas existed and when Yoshida brought up the idea of Shadowbringers, when we were trying to decide on the story and the central gimmick of where we want to take the narrative, I felt it would click to have him come back and that it was the appropriate time.
    Link

    It seems that the only thing that might have been planned since HW was the Warriors of Darkness/going to the First thing, which I can find no comment on.
    Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss; 2020-12-20 at 04:36 AM.

  12. #48352
    Scarab Lord Kaelwryn's Avatar
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    Just a nitpick, but we knew Solus was dead in ARR. Yugiri says as much in 2.2 when she's introduced, and the civil war is ended in....2.4? i can never remember which patch it is in, but Varius ascending to Emperor is established then.

  13. #48353
    Generally speaking, some aspects of the story are planned out in advance but others are just tweaked or expanded upon later in development. Some aspects of the story seem to be handled much better than others. In regards to the Ascians and Garlemald, I suspect something entirely different was planned for both but each has their roots firmly in 1.0 and one of the major writers who worked on 2.0 and 3.0 left the team at which point some of the dangled plot threats were abandoned almost entirely.

  14. #48354
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    Generally speaking, some aspects of the story are planned out in advance but others are just tweaked or expanded upon later in development. Some aspects of the story seem to be handled much better than others. In regards to the Ascians and Garlemald, I suspect something entirely different was planned for both but each has their roots firmly in 1.0 and one of the major writers who worked on 2.0 and 3.0 left the team at which point some of the dangled plot threats were abandoned almost entirely.
    Which plot points were dropped, again? I know that the Presence of Silver Tear Lake (which might be retconned into the Sound), and Roaille's insinuations never went anywhere.

  15. #48355
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Which plot points were dropped, again? I know that the Presence of Silver Tear Lake (which might be retconned into the Sound), and Roaille's insinuations never went anywhere.
    A lot of stuff related to Regula and Varis. They're described as firm friends with decades of history between them and Regula shows up during the 2.0 MSQ's on a handful of occasions. The Warring Triad quests pick up his story once more and leads to his death through a heroic - if unintended - sacrifice. We learn he's a very honourable guy and a reasonable fellow but he's not mentioned again in that context even when it makes sense to bring him up.

    Personally I feel that's a major oversight, simply because the game often likes to reference even very minor characters later on such as Meffrid. At the very least, I think there should have been an option to mention Regula during the peace talks with Varis. It was also a missed opportunity to have Regula's data be used in the Sapphire Weapon but not have any acknowledgement of the character himself. Granted, both are among my favourite characters but I do feel as if they were genuinely done dirty in some ways.

  16. #48356
    Got Christmas gifts for my FF friends. They've become like family. I hope they like em!


  17. #48357
    I thought they were candies

  18. #48358
    Emet Selch grape? Azem Orange? Pashtarot Strawberry? Sign me up!

  19. #48359
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Looks cool. Do they come with implanted memories of ancient times?

  20. #48360
    What flavour is Lahabrea?

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