1. #50221
    Quote Originally Posted by babalou1 View Post
    You have 2 of them and a 3rd coming. Sam, Drg, and Rpr
    Obviously I meant a big sword or hammer. Axe is out because of Warrior, but it shouldn't be too difficult to make sense of what I said.

  2. #50222
    Over 9000! Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I hope they turn Summoner back into a proper pet job again, and introduce another one. Whether that's Beastmaster, Puppetmaster, or maybe Chocobo Knight (depending on the concept) I don't care.

    I'm also a huge fan of pet jobs. What they did to Summoner in Shadowbringers was horrible, and I honestly never really thought the pet AI was THAT bad as to entertain the idea of getting rid of pets entirely as a feasible solution.
    Honestly the only bad part is Bahamut and Phoenix occasionally ghosting Akh Morns or whatever the Phoenix one is called. It's annoying but even that can be gotten around once you know about it.

  3. #50223
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I'm also a huge fan of pet jobs. What they did to Summoner in Shadowbringers was horrible, and I honestly never really thought the pet AI was THAT bad as to entertain the idea of getting rid of pets entirely as a feasible solution.
    I think the intention behind the changes was good - Push the Summoner into being a pet class for the bulk of their damage. It's the strongest identity that the job has ever had imo. Where they fell down was on execution.

    Its a job that's hamstrung by its legacy as being a DoT mage, then a DoT mage with a burst phase, then a weird ramp up job to what it is now. They need to rebuild it from the ground up as a pet job through and through.

    Ordering the pet to perform attacks rather than have it being a permanently active passive damage is a solid enough solution to the AI problems, it gives the player far greater agency in how they perform than an AI, but Squenix didn't take it far enough imo. Then need to break away from the old structures and mechanics to really embrace that fantasy. Right now, Aetherflow feels less like a builder for your damage rotation than it does an annoyance, Dreadwyrm feels unnessesary other than as a warm up for the real good stuff where you can use Bahamut. The desgin debt is crippling what the job could be and adding more on top of an already shakey foundation is going to leave it in ruins. (Pun intended)

    Ditch all that. Make the job all about ordering your pets to do your damage. Keep Bahamut and Phoenix, but beef up Ifrit, Titan and Garuda. Perhaps add in some of the other Primals like Leviathan or Shiva too and focus the play style on using the right pet for the right situation. Give them a mix of AoE, Single target and utility niches,and put the emphasis on the player to make the right call on which is best for the situation.

    That kind of design opens up some pretty unique playstyles and opportunities that wouldn't exist on any other job. It leaves the way open for a DoT based mage exclusively, and gives enough wiggle room for a rotational burst mage in there too by incorporating the recyclable aspects of Dreadwyrm trance into a more direct damage based paradigm.

  4. #50224
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    [SNIP]
    Not going to address most of your post, because I wanted to make myself clear before discussing the rest.

    IMO, Summoner is not a pet job anymore, given that the pets can't be targeted or controlled directly, they're just extensions of the Summoner that act as the animated source of the "pet" attacks. Functionally, those attacks are identical to the summoner attacking. That's not a pet job.

    Not trying to make it game vs game, just using an example. WoW Hunter and Warlock, where the pets are their own entity, with their own threat table, are targetable and are able to act independently of the character are what I want. Summoner in FFXIV used to be that up until Shadowbringers.

  5. #50225
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    So, Cruise Chaser mount on the cash shop.

    I'm actually FINALLY seeing people grumble about the cash shop, after it getting a pass for so long.
    Lol

    Just when they were about to bring back the FFXV car mount - the largest airship mount in the game - they coincidentally added a larger airship mount on the cash shop.




  6. #50226
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    So, Cruise Chaser mount on the cash shop.

    I'm actually FINALLY seeing people grumble about the cash shop, after it getting a pass for so long.
    Really....? Thats a shame.

  7. #50227
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Summoner in FFXIV used to be that up until Shadowbringers.
    It had a laundry list problems in terms of usability, mostly coinciding with the GCD and abilities the player had ordered the pet to use being activated in some cases as long as 8 seconds after you'd actually pressed the button. Tying all the pets actions to the players GCD solved the usability problem, but also gave summoner some much needed interactions with their pet too. Before, it was almost entirely a fire-and-forget kind of deal outside of Enkindle. I'd rather not have that back. Now you press the button and the pet does the fancy animation which feels much better in play than ever before.

    I agree that the job lost some of it's flavour by not having a permanent pet. It feels like you've lost a companion. You had something that was always there and it was taken away and reduced to being a few buttons instead. And that sucks.

    But personally, I never felt as though the Pet was every really, well... Doing anything. It did their big cooldown when I pressed the buttons, but otherwise it felt like something that was seperate to my character. It did its thing and I did mine and the only cross over point was when I wanted it to do my thing and it was too busy doing it's thing to notice. It was just like the Dark Knight and Machinist ones - Just there to add a bit of passive damage and look pretty, but is functionally a none-entity.

    The current design, for all its flaws, at least tries to make your pets a key part of the job and how it plays. I want them to lean into that more. Having your pet as an integral part of your job and playstyle, and having your abilities really reflect that, is a unique design space. Make it an extension of your character, not just a thing that you have near you.

    WoW Warlocks and Hunters don't really come close, their pets are mostly there for utility rather than to be the pillar the core class is built on. Even the specs that emphase their usage only tend to have a few abilities that interact with their pet in any way. How many classes in other games can you think of where almost all of their combat abilities are tied to the ability to command or control another entity? I struggle to think of one outside of Zato 1 and Carl Clover.

  8. #50228
    I personally dont mind mounts on it, kinfa sucks, but that mount also get cruise chaser theme, so im gona have to buy it lol.

  9. #50229
    A vocal minority have been grumbling about the cash shop for years, though mysteriously they're not bothered enough by such things to take a stand and vote with their wallets. They just complain about 'whales' and ignore the simple fact that MMO's are pretty good bang for their buck when accounting for the cost of the monthly subscription fee.

    It's not as though MMO's are cheap to develop and maintain, either. So the 'whales' offset the need to raise the price of a subscription fee to compensate for ongoing costs and funding issues.

    The money raised through the Mog Station is also guaranteed to be pumped back into the game and is the reason we have had server improvements over the years.

  10. #50230
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    It had a laundry list problems in terms of usability, mostly coinciding with the GCD and abilities the player had ordered the pet to use being activated in some cases as long as 8 seconds after you'd actually pressed the button. Tying all the pets actions to the players GCD solved the usability problem, but also gave summoner some much needed interactions with their pet too. Before, it was almost entirely a fire-and-forget kind of deal outside of Enkindle. I'd rather not have that back. Now you press the button and the pet does the fancy animation which feels much better in play than ever before.
    From a player control perspective, yes it does feel better. However I don't feel like there's any real pet interactions, because you don't really have a pet, you have a fancy looking sprite that sits next to you and just does the animations for your attacks.

    I agree that the job lost some of it's flavour by not having a permanent pet. It feels like you've lost a companion. You had something that was always there and it was taken away and reduced to being a few buttons instead. And that sucks.
    It wasn't necessarily a companion that I miss but the mechanics and actual interactions you could have with your pet because it had a physical presence in the world, where it could be targeted, moved, and acted as a separate entity entirely. Being able ot have your pet tank the enemy while you fired away from a distance, or captured that objective or ran away are things that are gone.

    But personally, I never felt as though the Pet was every really, well... Doing anything. It did their big cooldown when I pressed the buttons, but otherwise it felt like something that was seperate to my character. It did its thing and I did mine and the only cross over point was when I wanted it to do my thing and it was too busy doing it's thing to notice. It was just like the Dark Knight and Machinist ones - Just there to add a bit of passive damage and look pretty, but is functionally a none-entity.
    Well, yeah, that's currently how "pets" are designed in FFXIV. They're essentially non-entities. They have no gravity to them, they're just fancy animated attacks that are extensions of the character themselves.

    The current design, for all its flaws, at least tries to make your pets a key part of the job and how it plays.
    IMO, it fails miserably at this because it feels like I no longer have a pet. It's a pretty sprite just floating next to me.

    I want them to lean into that more. Having your pet as an integral part of your job and playstyle, and having your abilities really reflect that, is a unique design space. Make it an extension of your character, not just a thing that you have near you.
    I'm not sure how you reconcile these two things, because this is exactly how I see the Summoner "pets" now. They're just next to me acting as some animated proxy of my own actions. They serve no mechanical purpose. You could take the pet away entirely and add an animation to the character and they would function identically.

    WoW Warlocks and Hunters don't really come close, their pets are mostly there for utility rather than to be the pillar the core class is built on.
    They're pet classes, requiring pet control and their pet actually does serve a purpose. A LOT of that is utility, that's kind of the point. Summoner "pets" currently don't even serve that purpose. They're essentially just "stances." That's not a pet class.

    Even the specs that emphase their usage only tend to have a few abilities that interact with their pet in any way. How many classes in other games can you think of where almost all of their combat abilities are tied to the ability to command or control another entity? I struggle to think of one outside of Zato 1 and Carl Clover.
    I guess it really depends on what your definition of and desires are for a pet class. My main focus and desire for a pet class is one where the pet can be targeted by enemies and therefore act as a tank/decoy. If it can't do that, it's not a pet class to me.

    What FFXIV has done with Summoner as far as interactions with the "pet" are good ideas....except they took the pet away in order to implement them.

  11. #50231
    Over 9000! Poppincaps's Avatar
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    I think the issue with this one specifically is that it is an iconic raid boss. I think that's pretty wrong. All of the other cash shop shit doesn't really bother me honestly.

  12. #50232
    I am so glad I don't like most of the mounts in this game. The ARR CE coeurl is the only one I want that's going to cost extra or possibly the Regalia if they add it to the shop.

    The rest, well, I wish it were account wide. I have a hard time spending money on something only one character can use. I am guaranteed to have alts, so having to buy multiple emotes and/or glamours sucks. I tend to only buy during sales though, so it's not as bad. I still like that old event items can be purchased from the shop, better that than never being able to get something if you missed it (WoW).
    "We must now recognize that the greatest threat of freedom for us all is if we go back to eating ourselves out from within." - John Anderson

  13. #50233
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakhath View Post
    Obviously I meant a big sword or hammer. Axe is out because of Warrior, but it shouldn't be too difficult to make sense of what I said.
    Obviously thats what you mean..

    Quote Originally Posted by Dakhath View Post
    I'd love for a fun twohanded dps class of any type at this point.
    You're absolutely correct. It wasnt to hard to make sense of what you wrote.




    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    or possibly the Regalia if they add it to the shop.

    The Regalia should be up for 200,000 MGP next month. So need to buy in it in the cash shop, yet.

  14. #50234
    I spent like 20 minutes sitting in Ul'dah with a group of 20 people or so watching some random person play songs on the harp. Everyone stood up and clapped and cheered when the person finished a song. The cities actually feel alive in this game and its quite a different feeling after having played WoW for so long

  15. #50235
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    I spent like 20 minutes sitting in Ul'dah with a group of 20 people or so watching some random person play songs on the harp. Everyone stood up and clapped and cheered when the person finished a song. The cities actually feel alive in this game and its quite a different feeling after having played WoW for so long
    Wait till you encounter an entire band throwing a gig.

  16. #50236
    Quote Originally Posted by Drindorai View Post
    Two things here: It didn't really ever come off that Emet-Selch was confused by what the CRYSTAL TOWER was capable of doing, but more of how G'raha Tia as the Crystal Exarch managed to bring the tower and the Scions to the first. Which ties pretty directly into the second thing, by the time the Crystal Tower had gotten to The First, the Garlond Ironworks had heavily modified it with their artificial Alexander, pretty drastically changing how it worked. The Ascians may be immoral but they are not really omniscient.

    The Crystal Tower was meant ultimately to just usher in another Umbral Calamity by connecting to the Thirteenth (At least from the Ascians' point of view, Xande thought it was to be used to allow the Cloud of Darkness and the void into the Source to defeat his enemies by siphoning off Bahamut's power), not time and dimension travelling, that was something outside influences figured out and enacted later.
    An artificial Omega/Alexander hybrid mind you, by having that at the Crystal Towers core it influenced both space (omega's domain) and time (alexander's domain) to take it to the first. . But I don't mean to bring up an old discussion, but rather touch on

    Not to bring up an old discussion from last week, what I actually want to speak about is the nature of the machine itself, I suspect that the reason it went haywire Aka the Twinning, was because it's continued existence was a threat to the better future intended by its creators. The original Alexander was summoned by its people for a brighter future but the first thing it saw in its predictive modeling and insight into time, was that no such bright future existed as a result of its involvement. EVERY possibility ended in turning the world into a husk due to its nature as a primal. So it set about a series of events leading to not just its demise, but it being locked out of time so it couldnt be summoned again either. This makes me wonder if the Omegalander didnt do the same, the exarch has no idea why it went nuts all of a sudden but perhaps it was setting up its own demise after foreseeing that Elidibus was going to take over the crystal tower. An event which would have been several times worse if the tower still had its ability to go through space and time.

    It wasn't a primal and it's abilities weren't as extensive as either Omega and Alexander as it was hand made by the Son's of Sid, but once future events came close and clear enough for its calculations, it once again took itself out of the equation so the purpose it was designed for would be achieved.


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Wait till you encounter an entire band throwing a gig.
    There are a lot of official bands now on every data center. I especially adore The Songbird's (who are present on all the US Data Center servers)
    Last edited by Tenjen; 2021-08-15 at 08:42 PM.

  17. #50237
    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    A vocal minority have been grumbling about the cash shop for years, though mysteriously they're not bothered enough by such things to take a stand and vote with their wallets. They just complain about 'whales' and ignore the simple fact that MMO's are pretty good bang for their buck when accounting for the cost of the monthly subscription fee.

    It's not as though MMO's are cheap to develop and maintain, either. So the 'whales' offset the need to raise the price of a subscription fee to compensate for ongoing costs and funding issues.

    The money raised through the Mog Station is also guaranteed to be pumped back into the game and is the reason we have had server improvements over the years.
    I'm STILL waiting for Aymerics armor to be wearable by females and dyeable....

    It will be the only thing I'll ever purchase off that cash shop.

  18. #50238
    It wasn't a primal and it's abilities weren't as extensive as either Omega and Alexander as it was hand made by the Son's of Sid, but once future events came close and clear enough for its calculations, it once took itself out of the equation so the purpose it was designed for would be achieved.
    I like this interpretation of it. I think I agree.

  19. #50239
    Guess the guy deleted his post
    Last edited by babalou1; 2021-08-14 at 09:02 PM.

  20. #50240
    Bloodsail Admiral Gutler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    I spent like 20 minutes sitting in Ul'dah with a group of 20 people or so watching some random person play songs on the harp. Everyone stood up and clapped and cheered when the person finished a song. The cities actually feel alive in this game and its quite a different feeling after having played WoW for so long
    look up the songbirds on twitch they do concerts all the time.

    Sig by Elyssia "When you do things right people won't be sure you've done anything at all"

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