[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[StrawberryZebra]

It wasn't necessarily a companion that I miss but the mechanics and actual interactions you could have with your pet because it had a physical presence in the world, where it could be targeted, moved, and acted as a separate entity entirely. Being able ot have your pet tank the enemy while you fired away from a distance, or captured that objective or ran away are things that are gone.

There is room for a pet job like this. I just don't think it should be the Summoner. Summons in older FF games would show up, use their cinematic attack, then go. It felt like you were calling in a favour from an ultra powerful god like entity, there was never any kind of companionship or interaction between you and them outside of them turning your enemies into mushroom clouds.

I think the Summoner should be that in FF14. You point and the heavens split and Ramuh smites your enemies with a lightning bolt.

You hit the nail on the head with the reason - Any pet job should have their pet as an actual companion. One you can choose, level up, customise their skills and how they engage in combat and personalise to your hearts content. Similar, perhaps, to a BM hunter from WoW, where you can pick and choose what you want as your pet, what it looks like and which skills it has to end up with something unique to you.

There's lots of unique interactions they could add to a job like this. Dashes where you get a quick ride from your pet, coordinated double team attacks and positional bonuses depending on where each of you are stood. Out of combat flavour skills like feeding it, grooming it, perhaps even emotes and poses for your pet too. There's a lot of room in this space for a functional job in terms of it's abilites, job fantasy and asthetics.

The Summoner wasn't that kind of pet class. It never interacted with its pet outside of simply pointing. And that's fine, I want them to lean into that fantasy and that design more. It opens up a lot of design space for a more traditional pet job, as well as DoT orentated Mages and allows them to have that job idenity all to themselves without Summoners stepping on their toes.

[Katchii]

There is room for a pet job like this. I just don't think it should be the Summoner. Summons in older FF games would show up, use their cinematic attack, then go. It felt like you were calling in a favour from an ultra powerful god like entity, there was never any kind of companionship or interaction between you and them outside of them turning your enemies into mushroom clouds.

I think the Summoner should be that in FF14. You point and the heavens split and Ramuh smites your enemies with a lightning bolt.

While I don't necessarily disagree, the lore has already deeply established them as a pet class, calling on Egi's rather than large scale summons with massive amounts of power.

You hit the nail on the head with the reason - Any pet job should have their pet as an actual companion. One you can choose, level up, customise their skills and how they engage in combat and personalise to your hearts content.

I don't see this as a requirement. The Warlock in WoW doesn't have this requirement and acts just fine as a pet class.

Similar, perhaps, to a BM hunter from WoW, where you can pick and choose what you want as your pet, what it looks like and which skills it has to end up with something unique to you.

This would be great, but again not something I see as a hard requirement.

There's lots of unique interactions they could add to a job like this. Dashes where you get a quick ride from your pet, coordinated double team attacks and positional bonuses depending on where each of you are stood. Out of combat flavour skills like feeding it, grooming it, perhaps even emotes and poses for your pet too. There's a lot of room in this space for a functional job in terms of it's abilites, job fantasy and asthetics.

All of these would be cool, but again, not something I see as a hard requirement or even necessary, especially for a class that pulls these helpers out of the aether.

The Summoner wasn't that kind of pet class. It never interacted with its pet outside of simply pointing. And that's fine, I want them to lean into that fantasy and that design more. It opens up a lot of design space for a more traditional pet job, as well as DoT orentated Mages and allows them to have that job idenity all to themselves without Summoners stepping on their toes.

Or, they could make the Summoner what they initially actually set out to create by improving the pet AI and controls rather than what they have now. It was always intended to be a pet class. I want them to turn it into what they envisioned, not cut pieces from it just to make it work.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

There is room for a pet job like this. I just don't think it should be the Summoner. Summons in older FF games would show up, use their cinematic attack, then go. It felt like you were calling in a favour from an ultra powerful god like entity, there was never any kind of companionship or interaction between you and them outside of them turning your enemies into mushroom clouds.

IMO, when people think "summoner", they do think of the Yuna style of summoners who keep their summons on the battlefield permanently as a pet, not the one off cutscene attack summons like in the mainline FF games of eld. It was the former style of summoning that was more evocative and was copied in other games, not the latter.

While I don't necessarily disagree, the lore has already deeply established them as a pet class, calling on Egi's rather than large scale summons with massive amounts of power.

I don't think lore is a credible excuse given how many times they've retconned the lore to throw in new stuff they deem cool. That said, if Square introduces Beastmaster as that permanent pet class, then I'm fine with FFXIV Summoner not fulfilling that niche. The lore can be whatever Square wants it to be ATM. If they want the lore of Summoner to command big pets on the battlefield permanently, they can do that.

[Katchii]

IMO, when people think "summoner", they do think of the Yuna style of summoners who keep their summons on the battlefield permanently as a pet, not the one off cutscene attack summons like in the mainline FF games of eld. It was the former style of summoning that was more evocative and was copied in other games, not the latter.

Not sure what you're basing this opinion on. And it's largely irrelevant. Who are "people" here?

FF Summons have always typically been summon -> do big attack -> leave. FFX was really the only mainline FF that strayed from this. FFXI has a system that keeps the Summon out, too though but in that game the summons were what brought the power, the Summoner was just the thing controlling the pet and didn't really contribute much on their own.

From the beginning, the FFXIV Summoner was receiving comments about how it doesn't really feel like a FF Summoner because it controls tiny pets that don't feel very powerful rather than the big ones that actually look and feel impactful. But FFXIV has since established the lore for why that is and created a class around that lore, with a design intent that reflected that.

I'd rather they move forward with and make the actual class design reflect their design intent than have them take a core piece of the Summoner pet class away because they can't get the pet AI and control system to work right.

I don't think lore is a credible excuse given how many times they've retconned the lore to throw in new stuff they deem cool.

What lore have they retconned? I'm honestly not aware of anything, or at least anything on the scale of what it would mean to have the Summoner control large powerful summons, which would basically be a primal.

And this wouldn't be a retcon, they'd have to completely redo the entire Summoner quest chain and story line and the underlying cornerstone lore of the world to make Summoners control large, primal-like entities.

That said, if Square introduces Beastmaster as that permanent pet class, then I'm fine with FFXIV Summoner not fulfilling that niche.

Why can't there be more than one pet class?

The lore can be whatever Square wants it to be ATM. If they want the lore of Summoner to command big pets on the battlefield permanently, they can do that.

It currently doesn't though, and based on the established lore it would be a pretty massive deal if they did that. Given that the large entities we'd be controlling would be extremely similar (if not identical) to Primals and the primary purpose of the Scions is to prevent those from popping up, as a predominant member of the Scions it would be against everything we stand for to control Primals, or Primal-like, entities.

[Lane]

When I first saw the summoner job I immediate thought of Yuna. Aesthetically, I was disappointed with the carbuncles and the neon colored, cartoony egi versions of the primals. The gameplay isn't terrible, although, obviously a disappointment if you were wanting MMO Yuna like I was. I think the summons could stand to use a graphical overhaul to look more badass and less jokey. Summoner's probably the job I feel the least serious on because the entire aesthetic just doesn't lend itself to that. I'm running around with a book and brightly colored balloon animals.

[Granyala]

I think SMN needs a rework, in a sense that the mundane pet auto-attacks need to be removed entirely and the player controls the big hits.
That way you won't get the derpy AI-timing and get to nuke when you want to. Also, w/o basic attacks, they can make the actual hits bigger and feel more impactful.

As for the aesthetics: I agree that a rework is in order. Although the carbuncles are quire popular, something meaner looking would bee nice. I'm against making them bigger though, blue Bahamut is already a pain in a multiplayer setting.

[Velshin]

I just noticed the voice actor of Gaius is none other than mighty Roose Bolton from GoT! why no one told me that!

[Absintheminded]

I think SMN needs a rework, in a sense that the mundane pet auto-attacks need to be removed entirely and the player controls the big hits.
That way you won't get the derpy AI-timing and get to nuke when you want to. Also, w/o basic attacks, they can make the actual hits bigger and feel more impactful.

As for the aesthetics: I agree that a rework is in order. Although the carbuncles are quire popular, something meaner looking would bee nice. I'm against making them bigger though, blue Bahamut is already a pain in a multiplayer setting.

Pretty sure I heard somewhere that SMN is one of the jobs they said will be getting an overhaul. Also, supposedly there's also going to be an info drop in September that I've heard will detail job changes. But I'm having a hard time finding any of that info.

[Xilurm]

I just noticed the voice actor of Gaius is none other than mighty Roose Bolton from GoT! why no one told me that!

The actor for Gendry also voices a big character.

[MrPaladinGuy]

Bought Shadowbringers over a year ago, just subbed for the first time since its release. I'm bored to tears with BLM, Blu Mage sounds fun but I cant main it, idk what job to do. I used to main War then switched to BLM. I tried Bard to level 41 years ago but it's boring. Might try it again though.

[Raetary]

Are they getting DDoSed again?

[StrawberryZebra]

Or, they could make the Summoner what they initially actually set out to create by improving the pet AI and controls rather than what they have now. It was always intended to be a pet class. I want them to turn it into what they envisioned, not cut pieces from it just to make it work.

It may well have been the intention.

Then again, most games give DoT based classes a pet too in order to balance out their personal survivablity with the need for them to ramp up their damage. Otherwise you end up with super durable and high DPS classes which are balance nightmares. It would be just as valid to say that the Summoner was also intended to be a DoT DPS Job in my opinion, thats what I initially liked about the job.

I do agree with the Pet AI issue though. It's been a plague for both Summoner and Scholar for a long time.

Though having said that, the Chocobo AI seems to work just fine. It stuns mobs during their spell casts, casts heals at appropriate times and is generally pretty competant at doing its thing. AI party members are even better, so it's not as if making good AI is a limitation of the game engine or something that Squenix are unable to do. Which leads me to the opinion that they have chosen not to.

You could just remove the Egi mechanic altogether and just have a regular caster rotation with different summon-themed Deathflare-style burst mechanics I guess. That seems less interesting than what we have now, though.

Were it up to me, I'd have the Primals you defeat in the story be short term summons - Say 30 seconds or so, and you'd get to order them to use their abilities during that window. I'd also give them their own speciality area (like melee or ranged, single target vs AoE etc) and a cooldown to prevent you using the same one back to back. That would force you to rotate between your summons and decide which was best for each situation.

The skills the player themselves had would be to ordering their summon to use those abilities, some spells and cooldowns to support them during that, along with some filler spells to minimise the downtime.

I'd keep Bahamut and Phoenix in a similar position as they are now. They function well as a capstone for the rotation, and building upto them by rotation through your lesser summons keeps that buildup and anticipation to the eventual high point.

If that would work or not, I don't know. But thats the kind of direction I would look at if put in charge of the job design.

IMO, when people think "summoner", they do think of the Yuna style of summoners who keep their summons on the battlefield permanently as a pet, not the one off cutscene attack summons like in the mainline FF games of eld.

It's been a long time since I played FFX, but didn't the rest of the party run off to a safe difference ever time Yuna summoned and you essentially ordered the Summon to use its super moves over and over?

Lies, Yuna ain't shit. Rydia for life.

They both suffered from the same core issue though, summoners on their own are very lacking and need to be combined with another job to make them a useful addition to the party. Its probably why the Arcanist splits off into the Black Magic lite using Summoner and the White Magic lite using Scholar.

You're not able to hybridise your character in FF14, so now we're stuck with a Job that's all about the summons and is having an identity crisis.

I think SMN needs a rework

Oh yes. Its a complete frankesteins monster of a job right now. It's got too much design debt that's holding it back and sharing its base class with the Scholar doesn't benefit either of them anymore.

It's mechanics need a good look at too. Ghosting Enkindles because you pressed the button while Bahamut was in his summoning animation just feels awful. It's got all kinds of weird, janky and unintuitive mechanics under the hood that make playing it quite a negative experience.

Tear it down and rebuild it from the ground up.

[Absintheminded]

Bought Shadowbringers over a year ago, just subbed for the first time since its release. I'm bored to tears with BLM, Blu Mage sounds fun but I cant main it, idk what job to do. I used to main War then switched to BLM. I tried Bard to level 41 years ago but it's boring. Might try it again though.

Just got all jobs to 70, IMO AST and NIN are the most fun classes to play. There are several I enjoy though.

[dlld]

Guys, Big Question here:

For new "alts"...Do i have any kind of "advantage" that i can use to level up? or Is going back to the beginning with nothing to use?

Is just that i ended Stormblood but i wanted to make a Male character now. I don't care about doing again the MSQ, is a good way to level up. Do Duty again and also participate in events i like. My only problem, is that, i cant find a way to "help" my alt. Its like he is alone, just like my main, without any way to help him be a little more "stronger" than regular low level characters.

You get a fantasia after finishing ARR that will allow you to change to male if you haven't already used it, beyond possibly mailing craftable/bought gear to an alt don't think there is any advantage you can get.

[Lane]

Another day, another group of "Mentors" berating new players in the Novice Network for daring to say they didn't feel comfortable about wall to wall pulling yet.

I'm in the NN on Zalera and Mateus (Crystal DC), I haven't seen anything like that on either. Supposedly Crystal is more RP oriented though, so maybe it happens in more competitive DCs (like I've heard Aether is).

Regardless, there's no way I'd tank or heal without a premade or my SO playing the other crucial role. Even as a DPS, watching a sprout healer have to try to keep up with a wall to wall tank gives me anxiety.

[RampageBW1]

Another day, another group of "Mentors" berating new players in the Novice Network for daring to say they didn't feel comfortable about wall to wall pulling yet. Telling other people that if their tank isn't pulling everything in every dungeon, to run ahead and pull stuff to force them to. That the tank doesn't have the right to waste your time by being bad. That if their healer isn't keeping up and isn't DPSing enough, to report them for being AFK.

Funny thing about this game. People say it's "nicer because no DPS meters" but people are incredibly judgmental about general playstyles. It doesn't help that the dungeon design is so linear and kinda holds your hand nowadays, sure. But people want you to do it all in exactly ONE way and if you don't you're just awful.

So I guess the "go go go" mentality that's so widespread in WoW also leaks in to this game, sad. But so far, I enjoy tanking as a Dark Knight.

[shadowmatrix]

So I guess the "go go go" mentality that's so widespread in WoW also leaks in to this game, sad. But so far, I enjoy tanking as a Dark Knight.

Doubt it has anything to do with WOW, I'm pretty sure big pulls became the norm without outside help.

[Graeham]

I just go with the flow, personally. If people want big pulls, I give them big pulls. If they want small pulls, I give them small pulls.

Roulettes are pretty relaxed and efficient on Chaos, though.

[Frozenbeef]

Got to the level 50 main story and played through the dungeons (raids?)

It was such a huge cluster fudge.. the tanks literally didn't stop running, did huge pulls and i had no idea what was happening or where to go.

[Mordin Solus]

im guessing castrum? get used ot it if its that people disdain that dng to high heavens XD