[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Cthulhu 2020]

They look nice in the artwork but I get the feeling they're going to look awful in gameplay. There's a level of detail to them that is going to end up getting blurred in game and I doubt they're going to pop as well on any background that isn't solid black.

If you have particle effects on full bosses look like confetti explosions anyway, and adding in flame and spark trails is only going to add visual noise to what is already a noisy game.

I can see my ultimate weapons just fine in content. Not sure what you mean. If you have all spell effects on sure they'll probably be drowned out sometimes. But a lot of the reason for their flashiness is just general sense of pride and being able to show them as a trophy.

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The whole point of borrowed powers is, that you get something new with an expansion, but don't have to do all the old stuff to compete, what you would have to do if they would just add it up, because, guess, they would simlpy have to make the monsters strongers to still compete with you.

The main thing borrowerd powers change is making it easier for new players and alts, while keeping things fresh by adding something new without creating a giant mountain of 'must have'.

And yes, FF14 simply got nothing at all. You got job level and item level, that's it. Means your character reaches max level, that's it, no developement left and the item gear is just a numbers game. It's just as time gated as all other MMORPG, you run your dungeons to fill up your weekly limit and maybe do your weekly raids and some weeks later you got one role max equipped. And after 7-8 monthes you got reset and start new with the same. Again only item level, not fancy trinket or special skill or whatever.

Might be enough for people, many will see it as boring, especially because their Paladin is exactly like all other Paladins and so on.

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Was that one also so terribly designed like other jumping puzzles in FF14 with invisible walls? Or did they at least manage to not have those?

But overall, yes, FF14 is clearly not made for jumping puzzles, it's far too rough programmed regarding movement and barriers.

Borrowed power is one of the biggest mistakes made by WoW in the last several years. Sure, it can be fun slowly gaining power and powering up with something that stays with you over an expansion, but I believe the success of relic weapons was largely due to most of them being canonic lore weapons of legend. And the ones that weren't already established as legendary weapons had great stories to them all the same.

Borrowed power is always taken away, and people HATE that feeling. You lose all of those cool abilities and bonuses you'd gained over an expansion, and it felt like you were far weaker for it. The other downside is all of the mandatory grinding, which is enough of a topic that people have talked about it since its inception.

Yes, FFXIV has a simple gearing system, and that's its strength. It doesn't have to do anything like increase your damage by 50% just for getting on trinket to still feel great when you finally get your P4S weapon. Visual progression is one of the most major components to FFXIV, especially in the form of ultimate weapons, which serve as trophies for doing the hardest content.

Perhaps some people want to feel that power progression be far more... steep, but it leads to incredible imbalance between the classes as a result when balancing around tons of legendary bonuses, borrowed power bonuses, conduits, etc. all affecting each other in different ways. Sure, your PLD feels the same as everyone else's paladin, but what does that matter? You're never going to feel useless in a raid because your class isn't part of the meta.

It's certainly two different systems that each have their own merits and appeal to different people. I prog raids primarily for overcoming a challenge, gear is a secondary reward. The icing on the cake. If massive jumps in power is your jam, good for you. Doesn't mean the lack of it in FF makes it bad.

Also, it seems to be enough for a large number of people, considering FFXIV now has a confirmed concurrent global subscriber count above 2m.



The jumping puzzles in FF are just fine. They're not the same as GW2, but still quite simple. And while some platforms may seem tiny, you also have more "hitbox" in other games for your character to catch hold on. The summer event tower isn't meant to be completed by everyone. It is ultra difficult, getting incredibly hard near the top. It also has its own progression system, getting harder the higher you go.

The summer event jumping puzzle isn't hard because the movement system is poorly designed, the summer event jumping puzzle is hard because it's designed to be that way. I can go up Kugane tower in 2 minutes. Adjusting one's jumping height and distance is easy. Getting it precise enough to land on tiny pegs is what is difficult.

Just like any other game it takes practice. You're not going to instantly be good.

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If Yoshi P makes his own MMO, I will instantly play it. It's clear the man knows his stuff. He's been an online gamer since the 90's, and an mmo player since they've existed, getting imports of english only MMO games before they existed in Japan. He knows what people want and what they don't want most of the time. He's great at communicating with the playerbase. It's clear from his interviews that he's a gamer first and foremost, and wants what's for the players. He's currently working within the confines of a dated game that was programmed like crap originally and making miracles happen.

I'd be more excited for an MMO crafted by Yoshi P from scratch than any other game I've been excited for.

[Granyala]

The whole point of borrowed powers is, that you get something new with an expansion, but don't have to do all the old stuff to compete, what you would have to do if they would just add it up, because, guess, they would simlpy have to make the monsters strongers to still compete with you.

Not really.
As others have mentioned: the effects of borrowed power often are things they took away earlier and now ceremoniously give back.
The whole point of these systems is to reward activity and "give the players something to do". Because thats what people were yelling for when WoW was like FF back in the day. "We don't want to play alts, we want something to do on our mains besides raiding!!11".

Well borrowed power grinds is pretty much the only answer to that question, next to fluff content that most raiders do not give many hoots about.

Personally, I am very happy that the only borrowed power in FF is the gear we acquire. I hope it stays that way.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

The lack of class customization really harms the game. In WoW and GW2, I can choose to equip as many buttons as I want, and fill the rest of my build with passives. Whereas in FFXIV, if a class is just pressing 1 over and over... you can't do anything about it. And if another class involves playing piano playing three dozen different buttons, sorry you're out of luck, you can't change it. WoW and GW2 also lets you customize your class fantasy to some degree. You can be different flavors of warrior, either being a raging barbarian who dual wields axes, or a masterswordsman who parries with a two handed sword, or a sword and boarder, etc. In GW2, you can be different flavors of Ranger, either focusing on being a beastmaster with different pet abilities, or being some sort of Aragorn-esque ranger who is a master swordsman and archer, or being a trapper, or interacting with nature spirits, etc. There is no such class fantasy flexibility in FFXIV either. Even FF11 allowed you to combine different classes. You could be a beastmaster who also casted white magic to heal, or was also a samurai.

[MsSideEye]

The lack of class customization really harms the game. In WoW and GW2, I can choose to equip as many buttons as I want, and fill the rest of my build with passives. Whereas in FFXIV, if a class is just pressing 1 over and over... you can't do anything about it. And if another class involves playing piano playing three dozen different buttons, sorry you're out of luck, you can't change it. WoW and GW2 also lets you customize your class fantasy to some degree. You can be different flavors of warrior, either being a raging barbarian who dual wields axes, or a masterswordsman who parries with a two handed sword, or a sword and boarder, etc. In GW2, you can be different flavors of Ranger, either focusing on being a beastmaster with different pet abilities, or being some sort of Aragorn-esque ranger who is a master swordsman and archer, or being a trapper, or interacting with nature spirits, etc. There is no such class fantasy flexibility in FFXIV either. Even FF11 allowed you to combine different classes. You could be a beastmaster who also casted white magic to heal, or was also a samurai.

And here, ladies and gentlemen, we've got the rather common breed of hater who spouts off into the uncaring sky at all times. He cares not for the value or sake of others, only for his own thoughts to be heard. A truly odd creature indeed, to constantly be in an area where he's both unwanted and unneeded to tell us about values of their own because they don't align with something the perceive as better.

Commentary aside, at least to the different flavors of warrior bit, you do realize that you pretty much just described Warrior, Dark Knight, and Paladin, right? Without having to go into the issues of making it so that they can all heal, dps, and tank at the same time? Gee, it's almost as if having more doesn't immediately mean it's better.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I'll take class balance with tons of unique visual flare to spell effects over the illusion of "choice" in the form of class customization that either change nothing important, or are so game breaking that said class either becomes irrelevant or required. People often counter "Well I don't play to the meta!" and we've always seen this in the past, where websites could break down people's talent choices that something over 95% of the population just specced to whatever was the "best". The people who choose uniqueness are in the vast minority.

It comes back down to either every ability and passive talent is basically the same thing, so the "choice" you make is largely irrelevant/cosmetic, or one choice is just so clearly better than another that you'd have to actively choose to play sub optimally.

Now, in games that don't have a multi player meta (let's say Genshin Impact) then you don't need to optimize, and you can play how you want. This doesn't work in MMOs with anything that's even remotely challenging content, as those who sandbag the group are often berated or even kicked. If the content can be done with significantly sub optimal builds that very often exist in MMOs, then it's not that challenging, or if you can, it's not the damage that matters but the movement mechanics or puzzle solving aspect. And that kind of content is almost non-existent.

I get the desire for class fantasy and customization. I really do. I miss the early days of MMOs when the very concept of meta hadn't really fully formed, and everyone was just a bunch of scrubs mashing buttons with whatever the heck they felt like playing. It just doesn't work in the modern MMO in challenging content.


And to further emphasize this point, so many people think that raiding is the only thing to do in an MMO, such that there was a large conversation earlier, in another space, where someone was claiming that FFXIV had "nothing to do" because they were done with savage, didn't want to devote the time to ultimates, and felt no drive to do optional content since it did not grant any direct player power.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I think choice would work for FFXIV given how easy almost all of the content is. I've levelled up jobs through dungeons and alliance raids and have farmed tomestones from trials and raids while watching Youtube. The pressure to conform towards meta builds is only going to happen in the latest savage tier and ultimate.

Take Bozja for example, one of the few bits of content that is at least somewhat threatening (or was, before the insane powercreep was added in a patch with the timesink stat buffs). You get choice there in which flasks to use and which abilities to use. Nobody gives a crap about what you are using in Castrum or Dalriada or in Delubrum Reginae so long as there a minimum number of healers and a couple tanks.

[KrayZ33]

Not really.
As others have mentioned: the effects of borrowed power often are things they took away earlier and now ceremoniously give back.

Nah, people might have mentioned it because they don't know what they are talking about, but borrowed power is usually something that hasn't been available before and is gone next expansion, or might be worked into a baseline ability.

You are confusing the order of things.
First the borrowed power is something new. And then later it comes back because the thing was "awesome" and people wanted it forever and not gone. It's a playground for class designers and a good thing for that reason. FFXIV just can't have that because of how Bosses are designed.

The Legendary weapons and their effects and skills - the covenant abilities - the BFA traits - those are all/mostly new.
To some degree, tier-sets and legendary equipment are borrowed power as well but that's a bit insane to mention because we wouldn't know where to stop.

I think the statement about FFXIV classes building up each addon being bad is valid. It's the reason why low level content is seriously *ass* to play in FFXIV after all, while WoW low lvl already feels relatively complete.
It's also the reason what allows Blizzard to make the classes and specs feel different each addon and not the same like in FFXIV.

Class design is pretty stale and boring in FFXIV - if you look at it from the perspective of innovation. The greatest change so far was with the Summoner Job.
There will *never* be a case where I play my SAM and reach a certain stat threshold or some kind of "build" where I can play differently.
I will play it "in a straight line" forever.

A set that would for example increase Kenki generation if you do something specific you would otherwise not do would go a long way.

[Zoibert the Bear]

Nah, people might have mentioned it because they don't know what they are talking about, but borrowed power is usually something that hasn't been available before and is gone next expansion, or might be worked into a baseline ability.

You are confusing the order of things.
First the borrowed power is something new. And then later it comes back because the thing was "awesome" and people wanted it forever and not gone.

The Legendary weapons and their effects and skills - the covenant abilities - the BFA traits
To some degree, tier-sets and legendary equipment are borrowed power as well but that's a bit insane to mention because we wouldn't know where to stop.

I think the statement about FFXIV classes building up each addon being bad is valid. It's the reason why low level content is seriously *ass* to play in FFXIV after all, while WoW low lvl already feels relatively complete.
It's also the reason what allows Blizzard to make the classes and specs feel different each addon and not the same like in FFXIV.

Class design is pretty stale and boring in FFXIV - if you look at it from the perspective of innovation. The greatest change so far was with the Summoner Job.
There will *never* be a case where I play my SAM and reach a certain stat threshold or some kind of "build" where I can play differently.
I will play it "in a straight line" forever.

A set that would for example increase Kenki generation if you do something specific you would otherwise not do would go a long way.

lol, lmao even

wow brainrot is real

[KrayZ33]

lol, lmao even

wow brainrot is real

Sure, go on with your unreasonable hatred for a game. What do you even mean?
You think another class has recieved as many changes as SMN to their core rotation?

Which one is it?

A tank maybe?

All the DPS classes pretty much get something added to it, not something reworked.
My SAM is basically the same since Stormblood.
My BLM just got more complex but has the same core rotation since forever.
My DRG has only gotten more buttons and QoL changes since HW

In WoW, my MM had a completely different gameplay in Legion compared to now.
Not even remotely close.
Survival changed from range to melee.
Demolock changed into a generic spellcaster into a metamoprhing creature to a demon summoning minion master.

etc. etc.

[MsSideEye]

Sure, go on with your unreasonable hatred for a game. What do you even mean?
You think another class has recieved as many changes as SMN to their core rotation?

Which one is it?

A tank maybe?

All the DPS classes pretty much get something added to it, not something reworked.
My SAM is basically the same since Stormblood.
My BLM just got more complex but has the same core rotation since forever.
My DRG has only gotten more buttons and QoL changes since HW

In WoW, my MM had a completely different gameplay in Legion compared to now.
Not even remotely close.
Survival changed from range to melee.
Demolock changed into a generic spellcaster into a metamoprhing creature to a demon summoning minion master.

etc. etc.

Says the one who's constantly attacking FF14 with unreasonable and completely biased opinions.

You know what drastic changes to a class does to me? It drives me away from the class.

I used to love Beast Master hunter, back in Wrath. They then nerfed what they could do into the ground and removed the one thing I loved that the class was capable of back in the day, which was pet tanking. The class never felt the same, especially when they did things like Survival hunter's entire identity change in a vein, failed effort to distinguish a class whose entire identity is 'Shoot gun, have pet'.

If you enjoy having your entire gameplay style change with every single major expansion, that's on you. That's what your jam is. For me? I'll take the ability to legit go and switch to another class to play as in FF14 while still having my character BE her in the end of the day instead of an unrecognizable mess because low and behold, BM was too strong against for a single patch.

Otherwise? No body cares if you think it's not 'innovative' for them to completely destroy the base of abilities and identity of a class every expansion for something new. So stop saying it and move the eff on.

[KrayZ33]

Says the one who's constantly attacking FF14 with unreasonable and completely biased opinions.

Yeah... "I'm attacking FFXIV"
That's all I had to hear, tyvm.

And what do you mean "Nobody cares" - it's comming up for a reason all the time, and not from me (because I have no reason to bring that stuff up by myself) but from random posters and people trying out the game.

I can shit on WoW and FFXIV alike, I point out the things I dislike in both games and I do the same thing with stuff I like. You on the other hand, think one game is unfailable. I'm basically just pointing out obvious falsehood, such as "borrowed powers is stuff we already had in the past" - it's not. It's new stuff we have for an expansion that might return later as a talent or an ability.

Or bullshit like "you have to play WoW 24/7 to remain relevant and do stuff" or nonsense like that. Simply not true, get over it.

Why do you even think your opinion is somehow more "valid" than mine in the first place. I play both games, probably as much as you do. I play with all kinds of players as well. People who fish 24/7 as well as people that raid-log.

edit: What I'm saying is, I've been on both side of the game vs game discussion and have been banned for "defending" FFXIV (because people "attack" it ) even simply for not letting go when some people say "FFXIV balance is horrible and jobs are being left out of endgame content" and nonsense like that.

[MsSideEye]

Yeah... "I'm attacking FFXIV"
That's all I had to hear, tyvm.

And what do you mean "Nobody cares" - it's comming up for a reason all the time, and not from me (because I have no reason to bring that stuff up by myself) but from random posters and people trying out the game.

I can shit on WoW and FFXIV alike, I point out the things I dislike in both games and I do the same thing with stuff I like. You on the other hand, think one game is unfailable. I'm basically just pointing out obvious falsehood, such as "borrowed powers is stuff we already had in the past" - it's not. It's new stuff we have for an expansion that might return later as a talent or an ability.

Or bullshit like "you have to play WoW 24/7 to remain relevant and do stuff" or nonsense like that. Simply not true, get over it.

Why do you even think your opinion is somehow more "valid" than mine in the first place. I play both games, probably as much as you do. I play with all kinds of players as well. People who fish 24/7 as well as people that raid-log.

Not a single post I've seen from you since I've joined the forums has been in support of 14. It's always comparing it to WoW and saying that WoW is better. As far as I'm concerned, yes, you're attacking it.

Half of the 'random posters', especially on this site? Are single post accounts that go 'lol, FF bad, WoW good' to get that ball rolling again and frankly I would consider it mostly being people like you just making alt accounts to stir the pot.

I don't care about any 'flasehood' about the borrowed powers, mostly because as a system it's still sucks to deal with half the shit you enjoyed for a year or two being ripped away because 'oopsy doodle, we need something to retain you and have you to grind up all over again.'

And no matter how you slice it, the 'play a lot to remain relevant' thing is applicable. Especially if you cared about wanting to give your best and the communities perception of things? It made a lot of pressure on you to do everything like a job. I don't care if you don't like it, that feeling PERSISTS in WoW to an extent that still gives me abusive flashbacks.

My opinion is more 'valid' then you because I'm not going over into the WoW part of these forums and going 'Hey, y'all, you know what's really good? Not suffering from Blizzard's shit! FF14's better!'. That's what you're doing, almost EVERY time you post here.

WE FUCKING GET IT! You like how Wow does shit. You hate that 14 doesn't follow. You're right now in the same category as Val, just a loud little bird screaming because you don't like your birdseed despite eating it ANYWAY. You wanna have fun celebrating every decision, good and bad that Blizz does? The proper WoW forums are in the opposite direction. This is where FF14 is chatted about, and constantly dragging the WoW/14 comparison and saying 'Oh, 14 should do this' isn't something that should be brought up just because you're bored stupid.

[KrayZ33]

Not a single post I've seen from you since I've joined the forums has been in support of 14. It's always comparing it to WoW and saying that WoW is better. As far as I'm concerned, yes, you're attacking it.

I don't care about any 'flasehood' about the borrowed powers, mostly because as a system it's still sucks to deal with half the shit you enjoyed for a year or two being ripped away because 'oopsy doodle
WE FUCKING GET IT! You like how Wow does shit. You hate that 14 doesn't follow. You're right now in the same category as Val, just a loud little bird screaming because you don't like your birdseed despite eating it ANYWAY. You wanna have fun celebrating every decision, good and bad that Blizz does? The proper WoW forums are in the opposite direction. This is where FF14 is chatted about, and constantly dragging the WoW/14 comparison and saying 'Oh, 14 should do this' isn't something that should be brought up just because you're bored stupid.

Then look better and more and don't let your rage boner about someone not liking the things you do get to you.
"YOU DON'T FUCKING GET IT". As is seen with your shit post right there.

This is a general forum thread about this game, we are free to talk about thinks we like and dislike and compare it to stuff from other games we like and dislike. Again, take your own advice and get over it, silly.

Me disliking or liking something is not a personal attack on you and your beloved game. I enjoy playing FFXIV as much, probably more in general, than WoW.
But when I say that XY is the way it is, it's because I think it's the way it is and for the most part, it's actually factual because it's not about opinions. Wether you like it or not, or I like it or not, is out of the question.
If you think low level content is enjoyable in FFXIV, that's a nice opinion to have no one can say anything against.

But it's usually considered "ass" by a lot of people and one of the main reasons why beginners in this game stop playing before they reach the fun stuff - as is freaking evident by the amount of times it came up and mentioned in other threads with titles such as "why did you stop playing FFXIV" and the like.

When I say however that I can play Mythic raids by investing 2h a week, than that's not an opinion, it's a fact. I can.
Everyone with the skill to even run Mythic raids in the first place can. And you don't have to "maintain" your toon from X.0 to X.3 or whatever. You just have to invest 2 hours per week when the new raid starts and your gear score will sooner or later be ready for it, while it's still the top-end content you can run. And you will have months to clear the raid.
If 2 hours of gaming is abusive to you, get a grip. You probably invest more time standing around doing nothing and running in circles in your typical MMO per week, while waiting for a queue to pop up or something.

And no matter how you slice it, the 'play a lot to remain relevant' thing is applicable. Especially if you cared about wanting to give your best and the communities perception of things? It made a lot of pressure on you to do everything like a job. I don't care if you don't like it, that feeling PERSISTS in WoW to an extent that still gives me abusive flashbacks.

Nah, it's nonsense. It's as if I'm saying I'm forced to play FFXIVs MSQs and it gives me abusive flashbacks.
Stuff like "you need to grind to do mythic raids" "you need to do the story quests to access the raid" are all *factually* false (in WoW)... because you don't. You have different ways of doing things and one is to just go 1-4 M+ a week, as I already mentioned earlier.
What people confuse is: doing content when it's still relevant with doing content asap.
One requires you to invest time, the other requires you to play the game from time to time... which is just a natural thing you do and should expect from a game, because it's still a game.

And why do you even talk about WoW? From what you are saying, you haven't played the game since forever and have absolutely no idea how the game actually works and plays right now. So just don't mention the game and I don't have to point out about how wrong you are about the game. You were still talking about stuff from 10 years ago, WotLK, MOP or whatever.

[Pannonian]

I think choice would work for FFXIV given how easy almost all of the content is. I've levelled up jobs through dungeons and alliance raids and have farmed tomestones from trials and raids while watching Youtube. The pressure to conform towards meta builds is only going to happen in the latest savage tier and ultimate.

Take Bozja for example, one of the few bits of content that is at least somewhat threatening (or was, before the insane powercreep was added in a patch with the timesink stat buffs). You get choice there in which flasks to use and which abilities to use. Nobody gives a crap about what you are using in Castrum or Dalriada or in Delubrum Reginae so long as there a minimum number of healers and a couple tanks.

Delubrum Speedrun groups did kick you for wrong actions/pot - i know i did about 150 of them. No tanks/healer required. If you want to make broad generalization ("no one gives a crap...") inform yourself at least.

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Nah, people might have mentioned it because they don't know what they are talking about, but borrowed power is usually something that hasn't been available before and is gone next expansion, or might be worked into a baseline ability.

You are confusing the order of things.
First the borrowed power is something new. And then later it comes back because the thing was "awesome" and people wanted it forever and not gone. It's a playground for class designers and a good thing for that reason. FFXIV just can't have that because of how Bosses are designed.

The Legendary weapons and their effects and skills - the covenant abilities - the BFA traits - those are all/mostly new.
To some degree, tier-sets and legendary equipment are borrowed power as well but that's a bit insane to mention because we wouldn't know where to stop.

I think the statement about FFXIV classes building up each addon being bad is valid. It's the reason why low level content is seriously *ass* to play in FFXIV after all, while WoW low lvl already feels relatively complete.
It's also the reason what allows Blizzard to make the classes and specs feel different each addon and not the same like in FFXIV.

Class design is pretty stale and boring in FFXIV - if you look at it from the perspective of innovation. The greatest change so far was with the Summoner Job.
There will *never* be a case where I play my SAM and reach a certain stat threshold or some kind of "build" where I can play differently.
I will play it "in a straight line" forever.

A set that would for example increase Kenki generation if you do something specific you would otherwise not do would go a long way.

That's a bit of a bad example, given that there are 2 sps caps you can play as SAM which feel quite different at least to me.

[MsSideEye]

But when I say that XY is the way it is, it's because I think it's the way it is and for the most part, it's actually factual because it's not about opinions.

Yo, guess what the whole 'because you think it's the way it is'?

THAT'S CALLED AN OPINION.

As in, what you think.

NOT facts.

If you can't get THAT through your skull, then have fun screaming in the air.

[KrayZ33]

Yo, guess what the whole 'because you think it's the way it is'?

THAT'S CALLED AN OPINION.

As in, what you think.

NOT facts.

If you can't get THAT through your skull, then have fun screaming in the air.

No, when I think 1+1=2 then I think that's correct, but it's obviously also a fact as math has shown us
All I did was saying that I leave out my own opinion on this and look at the evidence or circumstances.
It's not an opinion. I'm just leaving room in my statement to assume that I could be wrong about something as sometimes I believe something is correct, but it isn't, (as it's not as simple as a 1+1 question...) unlike you.
For example:
When I can play Mythic by playing 2h a week for a few weeks after a patch releases and I actually do it or can do it, it's a fact... and you, perhaps, saying you "can't" is then false and can be corrected by me as I'm evidence to that.
Once again, take on your own advice.
I don't think we have to discuss the essence of what I'm pointing out, but you keep confusing it with a love speech for WoW or something. Or a hate speech about FFXIV for that matter.

That's a bit of a bad example, given that there are 2 sps caps you can play as SAM which feel quite different at least to me.

I'm sure we can discuss about how much different something is, but the SKS difference is quite minor compared to what you experience in WoW and other games, even the highest SKS is. In fact, one of the two you are mentioned is *literally* the same with an additional GCD. Instead of a 2GCD filler, you use a 3GCD filler.
And most of the time, since bosses are the way they are, you don't actually change *anything* because it lines up with movement and forced downtime.

We are talking about 1 GCD difference every minute or so. That is all - and that's not even guaranteed due to aforementioned boss mechanics.

In GW2 I change my whole skill set, in WoW my whole rotation might be swapped around etc.
The SKS threshold in FFXIV are completely irrelevant in how you approach your spec/job and do the encounters.
It doesn't suddendly allow me to pool a ressource that I couldn't before, or increase a buff uptime that I couldn't.
There might be a case of that, maybe - as mentioned above, I'm not certain, but it just doesn't do that for DRG and SAM as far as I can tell.
And I'm playing SAM a lot and switch around the SKS tiers quite often due to gear being the way it is... so it's not like I haven't experienced the "differences"

[MsSideEye]

No, when I think 1+1=2 then I think that's correct, but it's obviously also a fact.
It's not an opinion. I'm just leaving room to assume that I could be wrong about something... unlike you.
Once again, take on your own advice.

Ok, you want some facts? Let's have some here now, shall we?

Blizzard fucked over Blitzchung for standing up for something he believed in, just to cover their own fucking asses.

Blizzard had male members of their company do cube crawls and constantly harass their female members.

Blizzard has willingly and cut content for an expansion that was supposed to be their big 'Life After Death' Expansion short because it was so poorly received and so horribly managed that they're dropping not only the major elements that made up the expansion, but the Borrowed Power aspect of their game they've had since Legion COLD.

Oh, and never in the history of FF14 has Yoshi P done anything like this.

How's that for facts?

[Pannonian]

No, when I think 1+1=2 then I think that's correct, but it's obviously also a fact.
It's not an opinion. I'm just leaving room to assume that I could be wrong about something... unlike you.
Once again, take on your own advice.



I'm sure we can discuss about how much different something is, but the SKS difference is quite minor compared to what you experience in WoW and other games, even the highest SKS is. In fact, one of the two you are mentioned is *literally* the same with an additional GCD. Instead of a 2GCD filler, you use a 3GCD filler.
And most of the time, since bosses are the way they are, you don't actually change *anything* because it lines up with movement and forced downtime.

We are talking about 1 GCD difference every minute or so. That is all.

yeah i agree with you, the difference is minor compared to WOW. But you're attacking a strawmen right now. I never claimed "The customization is as impactful as WoW" - i wouldnt, because it isn't.

You said you can never reach any cap with your SAM that changes the playstyle - and this is factually wrong. And it may be minor, but if you have ever tried to optimize your uptime for example at pinax, it changes how you play the fight noticeably.

The simple fact that FF 14 bosses are so much a dance with strict timings, makes small things like a gcd/minute very impactful. Heck depending on which opener i use in P4, it makes a huge difference for how i can play 2/4 minute burst.

[Kittahsmash]

we are free to talk about thinks we like and dislike and compare it to stuff from other games we like and dislike.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the mods have stepped in numerous times and said to stop with the "WoW vs FFXIV" bashing.

It doesn't suddendly allow me to pool a ressource that I couldn't before, or increase a buff uptime that I couldn't.

What in WoW lets you pool a "ressource" that you couldn't before, or increase buff uptimes that you previously couldn't just by changing one stat? I'll admit I'm one of the people who left a LONG time ago so I haven't paid attention to the game, but I've not heard anyone talking about something like this... Or does something in GW let you pool a "ressource" or increase buff uptimes by changing one stat?

[Yarathir]

All I can say is I'm glad FF14 isn't like that other MMO or a bunch of other MMOs.

I left that other MMO behind for being what it became and I would much appreciate it if other refugees of that MMO would refrain from trying to turn FF14 into that MMO. I like having a job that more or less finds its footing and doesn't get vulgarly reworked every expansion. I like being able to reliably get BiS gear on at least one job in a short amount of time rather than playing some kind of ilvl roulette. I like that the story exists and isn't tucked away like some embarrassing secret and if anything I would remove paid story skips at all for accounts that don't have at least one character with the MSQ finished.