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  1. #641
    I am in favor of the item lvl squish.

    -The way I see it, gear should become more powerful as shown in the Figure 5 graph (linear) for all outdated content, and then the raid / pvp gear for the current expansion can still grow in the same way as it traditionally has (exponentially), so that as you go from tier to tier / pvp season to season, you will still earn worthwhile upgrades. Once a new expansion comes out, the last expansion would then be normalized into the linear equation of the graph, and the new expansion's gear would now grow in an traditional (exponential) way. This system would keep item levels in check as new expansions roll out, while still allowing players to progress their power throughout current content.

    -As for the issue of old content: I understand that because of the item level squish, it isn't as simple as dropping the numbers of everything by X%, because you can't simply convert an exponential curve into a linear one by dropping all values by X%. Old content from (lvl 60+) to (whatever the last expansion is) would have to have all values manually rebalanced. The reason for this is that content after level 60 was designed with the exponential curve growth in mind, whereas content up to and at 60 was linear. Even if you drop 60+ content numbers (hp, damage, etc of NPCs and players) by X%, it is still exponentially higher up the curve, just with smaller values. The situation this creates is that a max level player would still be able to faceroll old content, however perhaps not quite as easily as it is now, because the current expansion would still grow exponentially like it traditionally has, except the player wouldn't be hundreds of item levels overpowered like it is now. A player who is not max level, but is also a higher level than what the old raid content was designed for (for example, a lvl 80 player trying to go through lvl 70 black temple), would have a much more difficult time and would likely need a group, because all past expansions would be normalized into the linear equation.

    -My proposed solution would be simply to give a zone buff to players who are higher levels than the content they are doing. This way a player who is the appropriate level for old raid content would be able to do that content normally as intended, and a player who is a much higher level than that content would be buffed to replicate (perhaps not to the same extent as right now) having gear that is many item levels more powerful, making old content much easier for them.

  2. #642
    Stood in the Fire themightysven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Swamp of Despair, Texas
    Alot of people seem to be assuming that Le Squish would make soloing or two manning old content untenable.Why would that be so? Lvl 60s still need to be able to run a Lvl 60 raid, clearly bosses would get squished too...because if they didn't, can you imagine doing LK at 25 million with slightly better gear than taking down Ragnaros (hipster edition) at 1 million?

  3. #643
    If they made a small arcanite solo animation after every crit i'd give them money

  4. #644
    squish dem numbers!

  5. #645
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwynedd View Post
    I vote for item level squish to save the life of my computer, but I still want to crit for 12 MEGA DAMAGE. Perhaps we should just omit damage and call it MEGA DAMAGE.
    Your computer won't die because the game needs to handle a few more digits. It's all handled on server side anyways and just sent to your computer to show up on the screen.

    And you know what grows faster then our ilvl? The computer power. We're not gonna reach a point where the servers can't calculate the damage when a warrior hits you. The game would need a lot more expansions before a int, double or whatever variable they use to represent a player's HP isn't enough anymore.

    Just adding a k and hiding the 3 last digits is the best and also most simple way IMO.

  6. #646
    Not sure how they didnt see this coming, it was kind of obvious just from vanilla to BC. I mean really, just compare health pools from expansion to expansion, vanilla was like 3-4k hp. Bc went up to about 10k-ish. Basically doubling the hp pools. Then WotLK came out and health pools exploded, doubling/tripling. And now we get to cata and you basically have to times all the numbers by 10, which was a retarded idea. But seriously, they should have seen this coming after they released wrath and scaled the numbers down. Half a year ago i told a friend, just wait till we get to the millions of hp lvls. And he was like, they'l never let that happen. we are....

  7. #647
    why does everyone hate "big numbers" so much? are you an idiot that cant count past 10? theyre just numbers, and if they bother you because theyre too long, dont worry, theyll just add a K or M at the end and voila! dont really get the issue here. blizzard mentions computer power but that is one lame excuse because certainly thats not it

  8. #648
    Seriously, how Blizzard didn't see that this was going to happen is just laughable. I guess just by having a high turnover rate of peeps working on the game (not just GTFO out of Blizzard-Activision, but getting shoved into D3 or SC2), that the finer points of log-scales jsut got looked over.
    That, or Bobby Kotick really doesn't have a clue about anything.
    It's just easy enough when the next xpac to come out to just scale everything down by a factor of ten. Big numbers are just that, big numbers! Anything over 9000 is just overkill.

  9. #649
    Dreadlord yuca247's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by Noctim View Post
    LOL the artwork ist hilarious!! CRIT FOR 12 MEGADAMAGE CRIT FOR 124 MO-MO-MONSTERDAMAGE!!!!
    With the Killer Instinct guy yelling it out = win

  10. #650
    Pandaren Monk Alayea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Oregon, U.S.A.
    The "item squish" would be a better long-term policy, but I'll be darned if I have to like it. It's Blizzard's own fault.
    Alayea - Enhance/Resto (Main) Lithala - BM Gekkani - Disc/Shadow
    Mathrie - Fury/Prot Mayae - Resto/Bal Elita - Frost/Blood
    Chrystie - Frost Draika - Combat Ioreth - Ret/Prot
    Vexbolt - Destro/Demo Yin - WW/MW Yolis - Vengeance

  11. #651
    I'd really hate to lose my ability to solo old content, it's near impossible to find 5-10 people to run ulduar if I'm trying to get something out of there, I can't imagine having to do the same thing for ubrs or BC heroics. Just let the numbers get bigger I say.

  12. #652
    squish them numbers i asked for this back in WotLK, i do agree vanilla ilvls where simply to low that is why you got ppl skiping stuff sens there wasn't much of a jump so you could just do higher end bosses without the needed gear. while in TBC you had ppl doing T5 content sens there where a few parts that where BiS from T5 stuff and grabing the T5P2 set bouns could actually upp your dps (arcane mage).

    i personaly liked that system you had alot(when i say alot i mean 2-3 pices per person) of pices of gear from earlier tiers you needed to get combined with the lastest tier to get bis witch gave you alot of raiding to do, and better yet killing T5 bosses was still hard even in full T6 gear. i think the diffance in hp of a T5 tanks to a T6 tank was 10% or 2-3k witch was half a hit on a boss.

    for ex. the mallet of tides from the lurker below was BiS for fights where you needed hp while the brutalizer was better fights where you needed good threat (remeber those days?) you could live with only having say the brutalizer but it was in your best intrest to have both

    while on WotLK the only part where you wanted to do old content was sens of trinkets but then you over geard the fights so much it was a cake walk

    and look at cata now you don't even need the old trinkets i think only one is the sinestra trinket is still worth getting and that one got nerfed

    EDIT1: and honestly it isn't that much work sens everything is based on an ilvl even enemies and if you just slash down everything evenly it won't be an issue. also it is only TBC, WotLK and cata content that would be nefed not the redone 1-60 and an other bouns is that you won't have those horrible jumps in gear when you get into an exp pack
    Last edited by Harith; 2011-11-05 at 02:05 AM.

  13. #653
    This post was the reason why I made an MMO account to be able to reply on it, yet I was just checking the news Read through few first pages and found out that most of peeps think the way I do also but to gather that all up:guys, really, I'm no an RP player, but I like that blizz puts some shotr movie scens and dialogs that give some lore info even to non-rp player, but honestly, how many of you think that it is correct that some1 can solo Lich King for example, the most powerful dude on TFT, or Illidan, or C'Thun. Really? Any more peeps from Vanilla that have spent MOUTHES with 40 people, and every pull you got him for 4% or 5% more than previous pull gave you feeling that you're closer and closer, and recently, some dude SOLOED that with EVEN ANOTHER BOSS??? C'mon, I feel that is TOTALY WRONG, and I belive most players do.Players keep playing WoW even tho it becomes less and less fun with every expansion because there's no good alternative (really), or because they feel they've spent too many time on it to quit, but item squish will bring back that epic feeling imo!This game brought most joy for me when my mind flay did 316 dmg ticks

  14. #654
    i have a solution... blow up this pandas and launch world of warcraft 2 ... with a fresh start

  15. #655
    do it. most people don't solo that stuff anyways

  16. #656
    I'm all in for small numbers, but what about soloing old content?This isn't going to be a game breaker for me.. but I do enjoy it sometimes.

  17. #657
    Quote Originally Posted by Onscreen1 View Post
    Squish the whole thing. I know transmoggers will cry but its the best thing to do. I don't like soloing neferian nowadays. Its not the way it should be. Not even for a lvl 95.
    They aren't going to nerf just the items and leave the bosses and npcs where they're at, that would be preposterous. They will nerf EVERYTHING, you will still be able to solo Nef.

  18. #658
    @ "soloing old content crowd" ----- convert the old bosses into regular level mobs, rather than skull mobs, problem solved. Easy as *bleep*.. Really. C'thun lvl63 mob, Illidan lvl 73, Lich King, lvl83.. That way you'd still have the required upper hand to solo or small scale group the old content. I myself think they should just let the numbers go into "ludicruos" for at least MoP.. While a lot of you here agree it's just numbers, there are a LOT, and i mean, *ton of people that play this game and arent quite as reasonable. And even those that are reasonable would feel frustration when seeing the low numbers. The cold mind and logic would tell them it's all good but the heart would tell otherwise, it wont be as much fun anymore. And "fun" has never been driven by cold logic. In the next xpack after MoP they could introduce new stats, like 1000 strength = 1 (insert whatever word resembles super strength or is just a synonim of it)

  19. #659
    I am Murloc! Kathranis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Austin, Texas
    People complaining about "not being able to solo" obviously didn't read the article, or have no common sense. If they scale back the items, they scale back EVERYTHING. Enemy health and damage included. You can solo level 40 mobs at level 60, right? This is no different than that change. And level 90 gear is still going to be exponentially better than level 85 gear. It's just level 61-85 that gets squished down.

  20. #660
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyyrr View Post
    They aren't going to nerf just the items and leave the bosses and npcs where they're at, that would be preposterous. They will nerf EVERYTHING, you will still be able to solo Nef.
    What have they done with Cataclysm and now Pandarium that isn't preposterous, per say?

    1. Instanced/linear quest zones that hold your hand the entire way

    2. Inflated HP with same burst as Wotlk- the exact same thing they said they were fixing.

    3. Made up story, over one drunken night at the local Irvine pub.

    4. Instead of previous expansions, choose a race that was a joke (worgen aside, obviously they are more part of lore than pandas are).

    5. Preventing PvP'ers from getting their weapons for weeks after the announced date because of "not being happy with PvE progression", so that "PvEers are not forced to PvP"; while PvPers were FORCED to participate in PvE just to stay competitive.

    "We don't like large gear inflation" (which they also said after Ulduar and during TOTC FYI) and yet they still went through with it for Cata.
    This isn't a case of "we made a problem and we want to fix it" it's a case of "we don't want to do our jobs consistently, so we'd rather ask you for
    a suggestion, even though we'll just do what we had planned in the first place".

    The items they show, aren't even properly linear, nor is the chart. It's meant to be misleading, just like many of the things this d**3 says.

    Although if they do go through with a stat reduction change in Pandarium, I won't be mad. Bobby Kotick will be, with his stock going down even more after the extra few thousand subs they'll lose.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedDragon4275 View Post
    If they end up doing this, it's going to feel really weird. I also feel it will be EXTREMELY buggy because they'll have to rework the health of pretty much everything.
    If they actually do that, which I doubt, like level 1-60 revamp, it will just be another one of their excuses for the lack of "real" content. They already have two rehashed dungeons planned, it's become clear that their modus is "less work, more play". And by that, I mean they play, and we have to work harder and harder to actually enjoy this game.

    Let's see, what's actual new content. New class which will be either OP or UP for months, while they complain "but we only made it this year, it will take years to balance this class like the others". Two rehashed dungeons. Rehashed stats, probably not rehashed BC/Vanilla/Wotlk content. Maybe Cata. Lots more pets/mounts/etc. By the end of the next expansion, this game is going to be very close to being F2P, as they won't be able to keep as many people as the one's who are leaving.

    Blizzard knows this, internally, they just won't say it publicly, for obvious reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by ihyln View Post
    I have an idea. How about they think longer than 10 minutes on ideas? Seeing that worked so well for cata.

    Item squish is going to confuse the shit out of players just like wotlk to cata difficulty level. They clearly have lost touch. Everything they have done to make the game easier to develop has been to their detriment. Homogeneity of classes, raid lockout, loot, etc
    This is so true. If only they thought like you, we'd have a much better game in our hands.

    Homogenizing was clearly for their benefit- less spells to balance encounters around (lazy).

    Raid lockout (forcing people to play longer to get gear- wow it was fun in Wotlk, but doing 4 raids a week just isn't possible anymore)

    Same loot, was just a terrible idea. 25 mans were always harder, and almost prestigious. Now everything is just a joke.

    Also, look at BC heroics, to Wotlk and Cata. Not only is icon (and ARTWORK reusing rampant) I remember like 3 different versions of plate leveling up in Wotlk, and in Cata almost all the pre raid shields look exactly the same, healing or tanking. The breadth of their lazyness is astounding, and incredibly apparent.
    Last edited by WrathDksCataFrostPandaFtl; 2011-11-05 at 02:44 AM.

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