10.3 million subscribers

[Osmeric]

And last I remember, after Cata hit, sub numbers rose to their highest ever.

Once people started reaching level cap and realized what they had bought, activity (and subscriptions) began plummeting downward. The activity graph in NA/EU peaked about one month after Cata release.

And no, I didn't say Cata killed WoW. Strawman much?

[Arashi]

People don't like to admit the truth when its staring them right in the face.

[jace5869]

So, WoW lost more subscribers than some MMO's have all together. That's pretty sick to think about.

Wait. Not really.

They still have over 10 million subscribers!


Now, I don't know what to think about MoP just yet, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to be there to make an actual assessment on first hand experience if at all possible.

[Deleted]

Doesn't affect me in any way, so who cares.

Actually, it does affect everyone currently subscribing to the game. A hefty subscription loss means a loss of income for the company, which in turn means they need to make up the losses in some other way. This - again in turn - means that resources are redirected from other avenues and pushed into making cash. I believe the increase in microtransactions is evidence enough of that. As well as the scrapped Abyssal Maw raid.

[TheWerebison]

I'm still trying to understand the whole "WoW is dead" viewpoint. For me, and apparently for many other people, Cata was a big deal. I'm staying with the game, a lot of other people are staying with the game, there are plenty of people still excited and enjoying themselves with what's currently in and what's to come. Most of the polls I see show the overwhelming majority of polled people looking forward to what's to come. You are noting that WoW is changing, that people are leaving because of the change, and because the people leaving are smaller than the people remaining by a significant amount...that it's the end?

Look, there are people unhappy with the changes, yes. And yeah, I'd say WoW has probably hit it's peak. I can't imagine them going back to or topping their highest moment. But it had been climbing over, what, 4 or 5 years? Then it reached an apex. And now it's finally starting to come down. It wouldn't surprise me if it took another 4 years for it to get down to a genuinely small level, and that is FAR from meaning that it is currently dead.

[Remnas]

1) They didn't rise to their highest ever... they just had a nice spike of initial sales subs...
2) ...and then the subs came crashing down within 2 months.

Sorry - but I truly believe Cata IS to blame for the subs loss. It's why i'm still on these forums ONE YEAR after I quit Warcraft. Not because I'm "Bored" with the game... not in the slightest. I'm just pissed that after SEVEN years of fun they FUBARed my game!

Now, on that note, they ARE doing things to fix this... mostly when MoP hits. The only problem I see with MoP is that there are a lot of other changes (Tone, visual style, ect) that are really cheezing other players off. I like the style... but I TOTALLY understand why others are pissed off with them.

A year? You're still here after a year? And wait, YOUR game? That's a bit arrogant of you.

And yes, WoW hitting 12 million subs was the highest they've ever been. Do tell me another time when subs were higher.

Once people started reaching level cap and realized what they had bought, activity (and subscriptions) began plummeting downward. The activity graph in NA/EU peaked about one month after Cata release.

And no, I didn't say Cata killed WoW. Strawman much?

So what exactly did you mean when you said, "Can we stop pretending cataclysm isn't to blame?"

[Cactrot]

Here's the difference. More people are born than there are people dying. The world recently hit the 7 Billion population mark.

WoW is losing more subs than they gain, resulting in the drops we are seeing currently. Gaining 900k subs but losing 1.7M subs results in a total of 800k less subs. The 900k and 1.7M numbers may not be the true numbers, but the end result is.

I think you missed the point, which is that numbers without context are fairly meaningless.

Here's another one, it'd take 4.5 years of wow constantly losing subs at the rate of the last 3 quarters (so no bounce up from mop at all, or any other recovery) before it would have a subscriber base STILL HIGHER THAN but pretty close to the current second place. People are calling wow dead for being 4.5 years of constant losses without any form of bounce back before it would be at what second place is at. That's also ignoring that second place is also going down.

Calling it dead for being 4.5 years away from being almost even with the current second place is freaking ridiculous.

[mvaliz]

Am I the only one who's noticing that in Q3 they nearly lost the same number of players they lost back in Q1 and Q2 COMBINED!?

[Ausr]

As I said, China got Cataclysm early in Q3, in mid-July.

Can we stop pretending Cataclysm isn't to blame for the losses?

Where the hell did this come from? I was answering his question.

Calm down.

[Osmeric]

And yes, WoW hitting 12 million subs was the highest they've ever been. Do tell me another time when subs were higher.

That 12 million occurred before Cataclysm was released, btw. The terrible disconnect between expectations and reality led to the following losses.

Can we stop pretending Cataclysm isn't to blame for those losses?

---------- Post added 2011-11-09 at 01:17 AM ----------

Am I the only one who's noticing that in Q3 they nearly lost the same number of players they lost back in Q1 and Q2 COMBINED!?

Well, the China reaction had something to do with that. This means the Q3 number isn't as bad as it sounds (and China gains make the Q1 and Q2 numbers worse than they sound).

[erdi]

FACT: Activision Blizzard's earnings for this quarter compared to last year at this time. 2010 - 51 million. 2011 - 148 million.
FACT: Revenue rose 1% to 754 million.
FACT: Profit rose to 87 million this quarter.

FACT: CHINA, 50% of wow's subscriber base just received Cataclysm at the end of July.

Earnings for this year compared to last year have risen by about 100M due to operating cost reductions of about 100M. Revenues have remained stagnant. What does this mean? Losses in revenues from their subscriptions have been offset by gains in other areas.

Now, head on over to the "Activision Blizzard Announces Better-Than-Expected Third Quarter 2011 Net Revenues and Earnings" article on their activision blizzard earnings page (I can't link it yet because I'm new)

If we go down to "GAAP Net Revenues by Segment/Platform Mix", all we are told is that "Online subscriptions" has increased by 28M compared to the 2010 quarter.

What are "Online Subscriptions" revenue defined as?

Revenue from online subscriptions consists of revenue from all World of Warcraft products, including subscriptions, boxed products, expansion packs, licensing royalties, and value-added services.

We know that no "boxed products" or "expansion packs" were released for WoW in this quarter (except in China).
We know that there are about 1.7M fewer subscribers for World of Warcraft than there were in quarter 3 2010.
There is a $76.6M (1.7Mx15x3) deficit that needs to be reconciled here, plus the fact that revenue actually rose by $28M.

Sure, some of this can be accounted to box sales and expansion packs from new players (and China, anyone? Coincidence?), but the rest of this $104.6M void must have been filled from value-added services, and this is not sustainable, especially when you have fewer customers to offer these value-added services to.

Now, if we look at the "Non-GAAP Net Revenues by Segment/Platform Mix", we see that there has been a drop in "Online subscriptions" by $7M.

Should we be worried? Maybe not yet but we shouldn't be celebrating because the whole Activision Blizzard company's revenue increased by 1%.

[Kenasan]

Well instead of spending a whole year of my life crying about a video game, I think I'll go play it and have fun. You guys enjoy your pointless crusade.

[Queen of Hamsters]

People don't like to admit the truth when its staring them right in the face.

And what truth would that be? Enlighten me please...because I've got a feeling it's your OPINION doing the staring and I'm not a sucker that just accepts and agrees with anyones opinion.

WoW ain't dying/Dead, not for a number of years...
WoW still has more players than many MMOs have together
WoW is loved my a huge number of people and they won't stop because of a drop in subs
People quit games every day, I quit 3 games last month.
A lot of people unsubbing now, will sub again come the new expansion. I have 4 friends and 2 brothers that'll do just that.

So..what's this "truth" you're talking about? .

[Deleted]

I just cancelled my subscription when reading this in order to stuff it into Blizzard's ugly face.

Haven't logged in except for the events now in months. And I even had all the achievements, too.

Go have fun with your pokemon pandas or whatever.

[Ascius]

Still doesn't effect my personal gameplay

Exactly.
The f... should I care if Asia lost 100k, 200k, or what ever subs. when I play on EU? We still have a ton of high pop realms and some locked ones, remember that there are regional servers and by just looking at realm list you can not judge. 10.3 million... it is great! more than most mmo's combined can reach...

btw have you seen how fast new mmo's drop... like flies, DC:UO, LEGO, Conan, lets face it Rift is in bad position. Many of the titles are going F2P... and another thing... so hallowed SWTOR is not the first Star Wars mmo... I liked SWG, but no EA had to kill it... because they hope that some of SWG fans are gonna join SWTOR. SWG was never very popular, but it had more than SWTOR can offer now... oh and it had your so bellowed "story" that can be written by 6 year old... and the game just died...
I will lift off my hat or whatever if SWTOR can stay over 5kk subs after 1 year and GW2 does not have monthly payments, so who the fuck cares + those games will have their own problems that you -the guys who are going to play it dont know yet.

[Deleted]

Every other MMORPG way below 1 million subscribers: "alive and still kicking"
WoW with 10,3 million subscribers: Dead.

These forums never cease to amaze me.

[Yoggtimus Prime]

10.3 million users still. Okay, let's multiply 10.3 million by 15, 15 being how much a person they get money from. Sure, it's a drop, but nothing major.

---------- Post added 2011-11-08 at 08:26 PM ----------

Every other MMORPG way below 1 million subscribers: "alive and still kicking"
WoW with 10,3 million subscribers: Dead.

These forums never cease to amaze me.

Yep. EvE Online has what, 300k subs?

[Ascius]

oh and on a side note... WTF are hipsters doing in my WoW... "oh but it's "Cool" to hate WoW and I've hated it before it was "Cool""

and on a side note, side note... I feel kinda bad for mods...

[Deleted]

Very funny and very blurred mosaic of voices following a major announcement.

Not excactly to be wondering why this game stopped being something good when company stopped designing a game to play and started designing a game that "all would like".

The last decision they must have made that was related to the game and not its popularity was the one about difficulty, having Sunwell as contemporary raid, and being couple of months before WotLK.

The only thing is, that nobody back then was demanding to "see sunwell", and they (the devs) went out saying "we believe that to deisign a magnificent raid that only 1% of the population will see is bad design". It was suicidal.

That statement spread like fire, and the new wotlk easymode generation used it to support "their rights" as customers.

Overall it is better to play a game that you re not able to see 100% of it. You know why?
Because you know that the part you dont have access to IS THE BEST!!!
And that gives you a reason to keep playing and keep enjoying as a bigger % of the game becomes available to you.

[bondmykebond]

I think when you have 10 million of anything that pays you $15 a month, you don't really have to sweat your subscriber count.