4.3 PVP Trinket Discussion

[Kreeshak]

I was having a look at 4.3 trinkets

one of them http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=77990 gave me the following idea.

basically 3278 mastery will give about 55-60% chance for an extra attack while it procs. Keep in mind that according to wowhead opportunity strike can proc of any special attack as well as white hits.

So I was thinking you pop reckstorm when the trinket procs and opportunity strike should proc and maybe crit 3 times.
If you don't kill the target in the reckstorm you will be left with a few seconds of reck remaining and about 10+ seconds of 55% extra attack to finish your target off.

The approximately 10k extra health from the trinket isn't bad either.

another candidate would be heroic apparatus http://www.wowhead.com/item=69113/ap...-of-khazgoroth from current patch 4.2. But the downside is that you have to gimp your crit and reforge mastery. However with the stacked mastery the extra attack would have around 65-70% chance.

Am I onto something or am I way off?

[Angy]

You know it has 775 wasted stat, right?

There is this trinket that I saw somewhere which I don't remember that gives passive strength and a similar proc to what Shadowmourne had. If you are to use a pve trinket in pvp, it better has strength or crit on it as passive.

Edit: Or expertise/hit to cap or mastery.. Anything else than stamina, haste and caster/agi stats to be honest.

[Tanex]

http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=77205
This is the trinket warriors will be looking for. "When you deal damage", so you will be proccing it as soon as it comes off ICD.

[Kreeshak]

You know it has 775 wasted stat, right?

There is this trinket that I saw somewhere which I don't remember that gives passive strength and a similar proc to what Shadowmourne had. If you are to use a pve trinket in pvp, it better has strength or crit on it as passive.

Edit: Or expertise/hit to cap or mastery.. Anything else than stamina, haste and caster/agi stats to be honest.

the point of the whole debate isn't the wasted stat, which could be argued if it's wasted or not, but whether the mastery proc can help a pvp arms warrior land a kill in pvp in a different playstyle than current.

[MorphexEU]

The BiS trinket for warriors will be; http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=77210
As it scales with everything. Absolutely everything.

PS; The tool-tip change in-game depending on for instance your weapon damage.

[Angy]

the point of the whole debate isn't the wasted stat, which could be argued if it's wasted or not, but whether the mastery proc can help a pvp arms warrior land a kill in pvp in a different playstyle than current.

The part you don't get is you are trying to talk about "half a trinket" for some reason.
And because you are asking for half a trinket, the logic of the question also fails as 3278 mastery WILL help you land a kill but 3287 haste would also help you land that kill. Or any of the following; strength, agility, crit, mastery, haste will theoretically help you land a killing blow. Even 1 agility will help you get that kill, whereas that 775 stamina will prevent you from getting that kill while giving you weak survavilability.

I said these because they are as reasonable as what you said.

[Kreeshak]

The part you don't get is you are trying to talk about "half a trinket" for some reason.
And because you are asking for half a trinket, the logic of the question also fails as 3278 mastery WILL help you land a kill but 3287 haste would also help you land that kill. Or any of the following; strength, agility, crit, mastery, haste will theoretically help you land a killing blow. Even 1 agility will help you get that kill, whereas that 775 stamina will prevent you from getting that kill while giving you weak survavilability.

I said these because they are as reasonable as what you said.

I think you deliberately miss the point and pick my wording out of stubborness to prove that stamina is useless.

Since in the original post I included a second trinket in the discussion (heroic apparatus) which gives strength as a primary strat, I believe it is crystal clear, that the discussion is about if mass mastery will help an arms warrior get a killing blow. The reason I started this discussion is because crit is considered the best secondary stat for pvp arms warriors. I don't challenge the general consesus. I am convinced crit gemming, enchanting, reforging is better than mastery. However I wondered what if there were special circumstances (see the quote below) where a warrior adopted such a playstyle that mass mastery was better.

that playstyle was very specific:

So I was thinking you pop reckstorm when the trinket procs and opportunity strike should proc and maybe crit 3 times.
If you don't kill the target in the reckstorm you will be left with a few seconds of reck remaining and about 10+ seconds of 55% extra attack to finish your target off.

The specific questions are:

For those 12 seconds of recklessness and 20 seconds of mastery, will someone using the above playstyle do more damage than:

3287 haste? Haste doesn't affect bladestorm (correct me if i am wrong) so the answer is yes
2419 strength? (pvp on use trinket) Could be I don't know the answer to that yet
517 strength and 3287 crit? (http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=77992) I don't know but my impression is yes because recklessness and base crit is already enough. It seems to me a case of diminishing returns

Finally regarding stamina being completely useless. It can add 10000 hit points which would mean slightly better self heal capabilities but most importantly a safety treshold for your healer and a psychological discouragment to attack someone with 170k or 160k hit points.

EDIT:

To answer my own question I did some testing with full ruthless gear + apparatus normal. 5% hit and everything else reforged to mastery. It seems that on ressilience targets the numbers are like:

Bladestorm crit tick 7-14k depending on res
Strikes of Opp crit proc: 5-8k depending on res

Given the rotation charge, recklesness + apparatus 5 stacks, MS (for enrage)+ CS + Bladestorm I get 7 bladestorm ticks, about 4 white hits and about 6-7 extra attacks proc.

So in an average scenario with 50-55% crit (from reck) the total damage is like 18k MS +6k CS + 55k Bladestorm + 18k white damage + 24k strike of opportunity totalling 121k damage without counting deep wound ticks.

[Angy]

I think you deliberately miss the point and pick my wording out of stubborness to prove that stamina is useless.

Since in the original post I included a second trinket in the discussion (heroic apparatus) which gives strength as a primary strat, I believe it is crystal clear, that the discussion is about if mass mastery will help an arms warrior get a killing blow. The reason I started this discussion is because crit is considered the best secondary stat for pvp arms warriors. I don't challenge the general consesus. I am convinced crit gemming, enchanting, reforging is better than mastery. However I wondered what if there were special circumstances (see the quote below) where a warrior adopted such a playstyle that mass mastery was better.

that playstyle was very specific:




The specific questions are:

For those 12 seconds of recklessness and 20 seconds of mastery, will someone using the above playstyle do more damage than:

3287 haste? Haste doesn't affect bladestorm (correct me if i am wrong) so the answer is yes
2419 strength? (pvp on use trinket) Could be I don't know the answer to that yet
517 strength and 3287 crit? (http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=77992) I don't know but my impression is yes because recklessness and base crit is already enough. It seems to me a case of diminishing returns

Finally regarding stamina being completely useless. It can add 10000 hit points which would mean slightly better self heal capabilities but most importantly a safety treshold for your healer and a psychological discouragment to attack someone with 170k or 160k hit points.

EDIT:

To answer my own question I did some testing with full ruthless gear + apparatus normal. 5% hit and everything else reforged to mastery. It seems that on ressilience targets the numbers are like:

Bladestorm crit tick 7-14k depending on res
Strikes of Opp crit proc: 5-8k depending on res

Given the rotation charge, recklesness + apparatus 5 stacks, MS (for enrage)+ CS + Bladestorm I get 7 bladestorm ticks, about 4 white hits and about 6-7 extra attacks proc.

So in an average scenario with 50-55% crit (from reck) the total damage is like 18k MS +6k CS + 55k Bladestorm + 18k white damage + 24k strike of opportunity totalling 121k damage without counting deep wound ticks.

I wouldn't say deliberately missing the point and being stubborn. Even though I pointed out the loss of stats, I actually answered your question too. That extra proc of 3k mastery will help you get a killing blow.

Sadly, there is no special circumstance where a warrior can adopt such a playstyle that mass mastery would be better because that playstyle will require you to be on the target. As we all know, it is a bit tricky to stay on targets in arenas to get full benefits from mastery.
Both mastery and crit are "chances" that can or can not proc even if you land only 1 ability to your target but mastery will give you an extra 7k hit whereas crit may make you hit 2x more than what you would.

Haste is, of course, garbage compared to other secondary stats but it will still make you do more dps as long as you are on your target.

Strength is a primary stat but if I understood properly, you are talking about a window of 20seconds that starts with a trinket proc+recklessness then goes on with only the trinket proc. So I also can't figure out which stat would improve your 20seconds window better than the other. Mastery, crit, strength all look very useful but I wouldn't be surprised if mastery showed up to be better than even strength in those 20 seconds. (Considering you are paid proper attention by your dispeller/HoF/your mobility so you spend those 20 seconds on the target, rather than being kited.)

PvP on use trinket gives us more DPS than most people think. That resillience ends up giving you extra seconds that you spend dpsing before you need to go defensive. However, in a 3s environment, (and most importantly; in my experience) warriors are not the first nuke targets and are usually CC'ed without focusing on them.(I mean like AoE slows, roots)

3287crit looks the best out of those 3, but I must say again, http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=77210 looks slightly better than al, considering today's arms warrior damage in pvp.


(That extra 10k hp will intimidate your opponent but have it or not, we have decent survavilability when backed up by a healer and people usually don't make warriors first targets - if not for a diversion. The actual survavilability it gives is next to nothing in a world where spammable abilities hit for 5k to 30k.)

[Kreeshak]

Angy your last response was quality. I am in the mid of testing mastery more and more so I can't reply thoroughly. I will edit my post later on.

[Swaggah]

Sure, bg's or maybe 2's double dps funzies.
But otherwise I'd get my resillience