$59.99 + $14.99 a month...worth the cost?

[Teldara]

fixed for you for the truth

Fixed, just for you

[PACOX]

Unpopular opinion but I feel SWTOR should be B2P/F2P.

1. There is no way they came produce a justifiable stream of content (worth the sub price) while keeping up to their standard of quality (voice acting/story/environment/etc)

2. Market it as a single player game with a MMORPG attached. SWTORs downfall will be its endgame, please will abandon a game and not look back because of lack of endgame even if the leveling experience is fun. WoW has a dedicated endgame crowd and Bioware can't release endgame content at the rate Trion does. To remedy this they make the game B2P and release endgame in episodes, charging per episode. This will keep players returning without feeling like they are paying $15/mth to hang around and wait. Same goes with releasing new post leveling storyarcs that don't involve raiding and dungeons. A lot of people are paying just for the leveling experience and then leaving. They aren't going to drop 15/mth for 2 days worth of new content in a patch but will pay $5-$15 for it for permanent access and will continue to do so as long as the episodic content keeps coming out.

3. So much potential for cosmetics. Armors, droids, lightsaber designs, skins, ship models, you name it. All they have to do is take the LoL approach to skins

4. It feels like DCUO (don't shoot me).

5. Star Wars fans are willing to pay a premium for Star Wars merchandise. Its not taking advantage of them if you are producing quality goods.

6. The P2P model is on its way out. The majority of upcoming MMORPGS are going F2P, Freemium, or B2P. WoW justifies its P2P model by sheer numbers and Rift does it by the amount of content it puts out. Its a dead model. At some point in the future games will make a mass exodus to these B2P/F2P games with the attitude why pay a subscript free when I can get the same or close to the same deal with this other game.

[krono957]

how is 2 operations with multiple difficulties at launch a lack of endgame?

[NerfDialogue]

It'll definitely be worth it as a single-player game - that goes without question. I mean, it's Bioware. They're pretty infallible at this point.

As far as an MMO....that one is still up for grabs. It depends if the actual game itself can stand up after the story has been thoroughly completed.

[PACOX]

how is 2 operations with multiple difficulties at launch a lack of endgame?

How long do you expect those two instances to hold the masses over?

- Reduced raid size and separate loot tokens means guilds have to run them less often

- Having to mass spacebar week after week through the same dialogue will get old

- Using multiple difficulties to tie over raiders is a gimmick that needs to stop. Most SWTOR players won't take advantage of the multiple difficulties anyway. The only legit way to get away with it is to open up more than one boss per difficulty which I don't believe is the case. Just because WoW got away with it doesn't mean players should continue to accept it. SWTOR is supposed to help change the genre, not regress it.

- It will take time for Bioware to release new endgame unless they cut a lot of corners which is why an episodic system would benefit them and their customers, not the like game hasn't already exceeded their profit margins. They only need to push 500k units.

- Besides operations and pvp, what else is there to do at endgame? Crafting is automated, nothing to really do in the open world. Back to sitting in capital cities.

- Raiding the same 2 instances for 3+ months does not justify a $105 price tag (game price + 3 months of playtime).

I am not against the game. I am against the justification (or lack) of $15/mth.

[Chrysia]

How long do you expect those two instances to hold the masses over?

- Reduced raid size and separate loot tokens means guilds have to run them less often

- Having to mass spacebar week after week through the same dialogue will get old

- Using multiple difficulties to tie over raiders is a gimmick that needs to stop. Most SWTOR players won't take advantage of the multiple difficulties anyway. The only legit way to get away with it is to open up more than one boss per difficulty which I don't believe is the case. Just because WoW got away with it doesn't mean players should continue to accept it. SWTOR is supposed to help change the genre, not regress it.

- It will take time for Bioware to release new endgame unless they cut a lot of corners which is why an episodic system would benefit them and their customers, not the like game hasn't already exceeded their profit margins. They only need to push 500k units.

- Besides operations and pvp, what else is there to do at endgame? Crafting is automated, nothing to really do in the open world. Back to sitting in capital cities.

- Raiding the same 2 instances for 3+ months does not justify a $105 price tag (game price + 3 months of playtime).

Separate loot tokens are for normal modes only. Last they were talking, normal loot rules apply to heroic mode bosses.

Flashpoints have conversation points, but last I saw, aside from an initial intro, the Operations do not.

Multiple difficulties is the best way to appease two opposing crowds. Hardcore players get a challenge, more casual but still competent players get to see the story.

They are likely already working on the next end-game set as we speak. Also, as I noted above, operations don't have multiple conversation points from what we've been told in interviews/seen, so they will take less development time than other aspects of the game.

Besides operations and PVP, there is also supposed to be an entire world devoted to solo end game play. Also, how do you know there is nothing to do in the open world?

People have been raiding the same single or 2 raids in WoW for 3+ months for years, I don't see why SW:TOR should be any different.

[Teriz]

How long do you expect those two instances to hold the masses over?

- Reduced raid size and separate loot tokens means guilds have to run them less often



- Having to mass spacebar week after week through the same dialogue will get old

- Using multiple difficulties to tie over raiders is a gimmick that needs to stop. Most SWTOR players won't take advantage of the multiple difficulties anyway. The only legit way to get away with it is to open up more than one boss per difficulty which I don't believe is the case. Just because WoW got away with it doesn't mean players should continue to accept it. SWTOR is supposed to help change the genre, not regress it.

- It will take time for Bioware to release new endgame unless they cut a lot of corners which is why an episodic system would benefit them and their customers, not the like game hasn't already exceeded their profit margins. They only need to push 500k units.

- Besides operations and pvp, what else is there to do at endgame? Crafting is automated, nothing to really do in the open world. Back to sitting in capital cities.

- Raiding the same 2 instances for 3+ months does not justify a $105 price tag (game price + 3 months of playtime).

I am not against the game. I am against the justification (or lack) of $15/mth.

Way too much assumptions in your post. I love how you're able to predict the behavior of millions of gamers based on no evidence whatsoever.

[Psilar]

Unpopular opinion but I feel SWTOR should be B2P/F2P.

1. There is no way they came produce a justifiable stream of content (worth the sub price) while keeping up to their standard of quality (voice acting/story/environment/etc)

2. Market it as a single player game with a MMORPG attached. SWTORs downfall will be its endgame, please will abandon a game and not look back because of lack of endgame even if the leveling experience is fun. WoW has a dedicated endgame crowd and Bioware can't release endgame content at the rate Trion does. To remedy this they make the game B2P and release endgame in episodes, charging per episode. This will keep players returning without feeling like they are paying $15/mth to hang around and wait. Same goes with releasing new post leveling storyarcs that don't involve raiding and dungeons. A lot of people are paying just for the leveling experience and then leaving. They aren't going to drop 15/mth for 2 days worth of new content in a patch but will pay $5-$15 for it for permanent access and will continue to do so as long as the episodic content keeps coming out.

3. So much potential for cosmetics. Armors, droids, lightsaber designs, skins, ship models, you name it. All they have to do is take the LoL approach to skins

4. It feels like DCUO (don't shoot me).

5. Star Wars fans are willing to pay a premium for Star Wars merchandise. Its not taking advantage of them if you are producing quality goods.

6. The P2P model is on its way out. The majority of upcoming MMORPGS are going F2P, Freemium, or B2P. WoW justifies its P2P model by sheer numbers and Rift does it by the amount of content it puts out. Its a dead model. At some point in the future games will make a mass exodus to these B2P/F2P games with the attitude why pay a subscript free when I can get the same or close to the same deal with this other game.

Quoted for stupidity.

1) How many people drive WoW Lore, like a handful of main dudes? How many people work at Bioware? What do you need a new voice? How hard is it to find some random scrub, hell the janitor works, to record 10 lines of quest text?

2) Ok. Sounds about right? You don't get a free month out of it, I honestly don't know. Thought WoW gave you a free month back in the day... Will get back to this for 6).

3) If by "LoL" you mean humor, then yes. WoW succeeds by being family-friendly, humorous, and by injecting pop culture references everywhere they think of. When all is said and done, if you feel like a nerd talking about the game in RL it probably won't succeed. Every PS3 and Xbox nerd loves talking about CoD and Medal of Honor - or whatever. It's taken a long time with WoW, but it's getting to the point of cultural acceptability.

4) Never played it.

5) I've played every single player Star Wars game since TIE fighter, including rebellion(which I kinda liked actually), and I've read over 80 of the published books. I don't collect...collectibles...I'll put it that way...but consider myself a fan I do(lolz). I honestly don't think there are huge Star Wars MMO fans out there who are just waiting to jump on this band wagon. They probably already play an MMO(probably WoW), and they will probably play whichever turns out to be the better game. I don't see people playing an inferior KTOR just because they want a rim job from Yoda.

6) The P2P model is on the way out. What? No it isn't. WoW is P2P and it's a huge portion of the market. Everyone else is going F2P because WoW isn't. It's the only way you get people like me, who are currently on a WoW break(I'll be back some day), to try their shit out. I would never ever buy LTOR, Rift is a stretch, and so are most of the others.

WoW has perfected the model. You see a lot of posts who complain about some of WoW's problems but they don't see the big picture. Some of the major aspects a successful MMO needs.

-Streamlined leveling that's engaging, but produces a "fine" player by max level.
-Customization in the form of mods, pets, outfits, colors, logos, tabards, interface options (even purchasable goods online) - you name it
-Reliable periodic content that's stable and fairly well tested.
-Decent game balance
-A world where people can relate to

Those are the big points for me and WoW nails all of them perfectly. You can argue this or that, but the game was different 7 years ago relative to the competition. You miss any of those points above and you're game isn't going to be a blockbuster.

My big beef with Star Wars as an MMO...When was the last time you saw more than one person attack the same target in one of the movies? Never? It's always 1v1, or 50 Jedi vs 50 Sith. Fuck, the Jedi will kill themselves 1 at a time fighting a Sith instead of gang banging him. Space combat is cool but you can't build an MMO around it. What...are your concussion missiles and lasers from your X-Wing gonna be modified by your Strength and shoot faster from your haste because your wearing a Beige Consulate Robe of the Yoda Wannabe? It doesn't make any sense.

Real question though...do you actually get a free month from buying the game? If you don't...fuck.

[Chrysia]

Quoted for stupidity.

1) How many people drive WoW Lore, like a handful of main dudes? How many people work at Bioware? What do you need a new voice? How hard is it to find some random scrub, hell the janitor works, to record 10 lines of quest text?

2) Ok. Sounds about right? You don't get a free month out of it, I honestly don't know. Thought WoW gave you a free month back in the day... Will get back to this for 6).

3) If by "LoL" you mean humor, then yes. WoW succeeds by being family-friendly, humorous, and by injecting pop culture references everywhere they think of. When all is said and done, if you feel like a nerd talking about the game in RL it probably won't succeed. Every PS3 and Xbox nerd loves talking about CoD and Medal of Honor - or whatever. It's taken a long time with WoW, but it's getting to the point of cultural acceptability.

4) Never played it.

5) I've played every single player Star Wars game since TIE fighter, including rebellion(which I kinda liked actually), and I've read over 80 of the published books. I don't collect...collectibles...I'll put it that way...but consider myself a fan I do(lolz). I honestly don't think there are huge Star Wars MMO fans out there who are just waiting to jump on this band wagon. They probably already play an MMO(probably WoW), and they will probably play whichever turns out to be the better game. I don't see people playing an inferior KTOR just because they want a rim job from Yoda.

6) The P2P model is on the way out. What? No it isn't. WoW is P2P and it's a huge portion of the market. Everyone else is going F2P because WoW isn't. It's the only way you get people like me, who are currently on a WoW break(I'll be back some day), to try their shit out. I would never ever buy LTOR, Rift is a stretch, and so are most of the others.

WoW has perfected the model. You see a lot of posts who complain about some of WoW's problems but they don't see the big picture. Some of the major aspects a successful MMO needs.

-Streamlined leveling that's engaging, but produces a "fine" player by max level.
-Customization in the form of mods, pets, outfits, colors, logos, tabards, interface options (even purchasable goods online) - you name it
-Reliable periodic content that's stable and fairly well tested.
-Decent game balance
-A world where people can relate to

Those are the big points for me and WoW nails all of them perfectly. You can argue this or that, but the game was different 7 years ago relative to the competition. You miss any of those points above and you're game isn't going to be a blockbuster.

My big beef with Star Wars as an MMO...When was the last time you saw more than one person attack the same target in one of the movies? Never? It's always 1v1, or 50 Jedi vs 50 Sith. Fuck, the Jedi will kill themselves 1 at a time fighting a Sith instead of gang banging him. Space combat is cool but you can't build an MMO around it. What...are your concussion missiles and lasers from your X-Wing gonna be modified by your Strength and shoot faster from your haste because your wearing a Beige Consulate Robe of the Yoda Wannabe? It doesn't make any sense.

Real question though...do you actually get a free month from buying the game? If you don't...fuck.

You do get a free month, and for your combat thing, the boss fights they've shown haven't really been 8 or 16 vs. 1 normal dude, it's your group versus what amounts to an AT-ST, or a swarm of enemies, or an ancient Dark Lord who can literally siphon negative emotions to empower himself.

[Psilar]

I face palm every time someone says "Its the same thing, kill things, loot things, do quest, turn in quest just like WoW"

Well, yes. Thats what MMORPGS are. What more do you want out of it? Something so revolutionary that its not even out yet?

Yes, SW:TOR has the "Kill things, Loot things, Gather Things, Fetch Things, Talk to Things" so do every single MMOs in the genre.

The thing is, SW:TOR immerses you into the game. Majority of all MMOs/MMORPGS, you are the nameless wanderer/hero/champion who rose from nothing to a champion. Doing mindless quests, hitting next next next until accept quest. In SW:TOR, if you are hitting next next next accept quest, you are doing something wrong. Theres a story behind every quest (Like other MMOS), but it can also develop YOUR CHARACTER. You want to listen (or read) the quests to actually develop your character You have a choice to turn in a quest to save a starving kid or give it to an animal (Not really a quest, NDA. Just making it up). For that action you can gain Good or Bad morality.

Theres so many choices to make in SWTOR, so much story behind every little quest, and the best of all: You can develop your character.

Not many mmos games let you do that.

But then again, you could keep hitting next next next accept quest, kill thing, return next next next finish quest. But you never knew what happened in that quest. Why you are killing X, or stealing X, or gathering X? Thats how I feel like most MMOs I've played. I don't really read the quest. SW:TOR is a different story.

I can read faster than most people speak. I just don't buy it that hearing some dude speak will create immersion.

The morality seems cool, I would have liked to have seen WoW go that route making an "evil" and a "good" faction, it's a viable choice but it has it's pros and cons.

Also, this "develop" your character thing is really fucking bogus - I'm just calling you out right now.

The reasoning is as follows. If the game becomes moderately successful fan sites will pop up finding a "best course." Think WoWhead or Thottbot. This will then become the norm and the choice will then be eliminated. If the choices result in cosmetic features, than it really only matters if you want the bird as a pet or the snake. If your choice is really which Morality you want? Well good or bad? "Well....I want to save the kid but.......there's just too many Sith on this server....hmmmm guess I'm gonna have to let him die." Furthermore, the last thing an MMO needs is that all too crucial point where you realize you made the WRONG FUCKIN CHOICE. People are stupid, don't let them make too many of their own choices. This will create massive feedback and bottlenecks for support crews and just angry players.

See where I'm going with this?

[Velthy]

Probably. You normally spend this 60$ for a normal rpg game that u play 1month+. I am assuming u gonna get 1 month with a copy of the game so its not a loss, even if u will stop playing.

[Psilar]

You do get a free month, and for your combat thing, the boss fights they've shown haven't really been 8 or 16 vs. 1 normal dude, it's your group versus what amounts to an AT-ST, or a swarm of enemies, or an ancient Dark Lord who can literally siphon negative emotions to empower himself.

Roger that.

I didn't even remotely try to respond to the OP...the answer could be yes. If you buy games frequently it sure is. Skyrim is $60 I believe, and just about every other single player MMO was $60 new... You only get 100 hours out of those games if you're lucky. The last single player RPG I played for more than 100 hours was probably Baldur's Gate 2.

[Chrysia]

I can read faster than most people speak. I just don't buy it that hearing some dude speak will create immersion.

The morality seems cool, I would have liked to have seen WoW go that route making an "evil" and a "good" faction, it's a viable choice but it has it's pros and cons.

Also, this "develop" your character thing is really fucking bogus - I'm just calling you out right now.

The reasoning is as follows. If the game becomes moderately successful fan sites will pop up finding a "best course." Think WoWhead or Thottbot. This will then become the norm and the choice will then be eliminated. If the choices result in cosmetic features, than it really only matters if you want the bird as a pet or the snake. If your choice is really which Morality you want? Well good or bad? "Well....I want to save the kid but.......there's just too many Sith on this server....hmmmm guess I'm gonna have to let him die." Furthermore, the last thing an MMO needs is that all too crucial point where you realize you made the WRONG FUCKIN CHOICE. People are stupid, don't let them make too many of their own choices. This will create massive feedback and bottlenecks for support crews and just angry players.

See where I'm going with this?

You seem confused about the morality thing. It's entirely personal, and has no affect on your allegiance to the Sith Empire or Galactic Republic. You also can't make the "wrong" choice. Whichever choice you make, if you really want to max light/dark side, there are always more chances later to bump yourself one way or the other. They've even directly stated that they'll offer full support for "gray" morality characters.

[Nasok1986]

In Russia Activision asked 999 rubles for the map pack for Modern Warfare 2 called MW3 somehow?! And EA is asking 1099 rubles for the whole new game? Yeah it worth it.

[krono957]

How long do you expect those two instances to hold the masses over?

- Reduced raid size and separate loot tokens means guilds have to run them less often

- Having to mass spacebar week after week through the same dialogue will get old

- Using multiple difficulties to tie over raiders is a gimmick that needs to stop. Most SWTOR players won't take advantage of the multiple difficulties anyway. The only legit way to get away with it is to open up more than one boss per difficulty which I don't believe is the case. Just because WoW got away with it doesn't mean players should continue to accept it. SWTOR is supposed to help change the genre, not regress it.

- It will take time for Bioware to release new endgame unless they cut a lot of corners which is why an episodic system would benefit them and their customers, not the like game hasn't already exceeded their profit margins. They only need to push 500k units.

- Besides operations and pvp, what else is there to do at endgame? Crafting is automated, nothing to really do in the open world. Back to sitting in capital cities.

- Raiding the same 2 instances for 3+ months does not justify a $105 price tag (game price + 3 months of playtime).

I am not against the game. I am against the justification (or lack) of $15/mth.

because you know, mmos stop releasing content after the game is launched, is that really your argument? you think they arent going to release more content? really?

[Chrysia]

because you know, mmos stop releasing content after the game is launched, is that really your argument? you think they arent going to release more content? really?

Eh, I just think he's trying to say it's impossible for them to release it at what he considers a good pace. However, from what they've said, Operations really aren't dialogue heavy, so they won't require the voicework that expansions will, so those at least shouldn't be harder for BioWare to get out than any other developer.

[krono957]

Eh, I just think he's trying to say it's impossible for them to release it at what he considers a good pace. However, from what they've said, Operations really aren't dialogue heavy, so they won't require the voicework that expansions will, so those at least shouldn't be harder for BioWare to get out than any other developer.

but there so much wrong with...ugh, my head hurts

[PACOX]

Eh, I just think he's trying to say it's impossible for them to release it at what he considers a good pace. However, from what they've said, Operations really aren't dialogue heavy, so they won't require the voicework that expansions will, so those at least shouldn't be harder for BioWare to get out than any other developer.

Exactly what I was saying but I am now sad to hear that operations are missing what really gives the game personality. That actually makes the endgame less appealing, personally.

Still looking for someone to justify 15/mth versus B2P/F2P.

[herpderpslurp]

i didnt have a lot of time to play in the weekend beta (only reached level 8) but i really liked it and i am going to buy it. it did feel more like a single player game than an mmo. so i will be paying the sub fee at least until i get to the end of it.

[jvbastel]

Exactly what I was saying but I am now sad to hear that operations are missing what really gives the game personality. That actually makes the endgame less appealing, personally.

Still looking for someone to justify 15/mth versus B2P/F2P.

I agree that the p2p model should start disappearing soon, and in a way, it already is. It's been proven again and again that the monthly fee is not needed to fund a game. Server costs are marginal now compared to what they were, and MT's are more than enough to fund for development and maintenance.

I can only applaud games that go f2p,freemium or b2p, been playing dcuo now since it went f2p, enjoying it a lot, and actually bought the dlc + some armor skins to support SOE.

SWTOR will be the last p2p MMO I'll buy, and I hope it's the last big p2p MMO to be released