"Zell has left the building." - discussion

[Cairhiin]

so it's not about quitting but it is about quiting?
why are his reasons any more important then the other 1mil i quit posts?
so he can read 1-2 million peoples mind and know why they quit?
he should go into the mind reading biz and make millions

it's is not constructive which is why blizzard lock the tread it IS just another i quit and here is why i am a special snowflake and you should listen to my reasons because i know better then a company that made the <-- key word THE biggest mmo-rpg ever

I love these post. Complete and utter ignorance, and I bet you didn't even read the entire post. WoW was a great MMO but the design decisions of the past 3-4 years have definitely not the best. The game has been made to appeal to bad player, and reward them for being bad. Near everything Zell said is dead on. Why is this Zell post worth paying attention to? Because it is how millions are feeling about WoW currently. The whole Cataclysm design of making thinks harder thrown overboard because bad players can't complete content, and instead of forcing those players to get better, everything is done to serve them their epics on a silver platter instead. The LFD, LFR, name change, server change, cross realm battlegrounds has led to a community that cares nothing for others; the average WoW player is a selfish arrogant loudmouth just because he can as there's absolutely no consequences to his actions.

[Velerios]

No, what people complained about regarding attunements was having to pull new people through them each time - not them in itself. Most of the attunements were (imo) well thought out, and a damn shame they removed them since it meant people had to have a minimum of brain activity to be able to raid.

Blizzard saying "all should be able to see end content" is crap. If people cant figure out how to play then the game just might not be for them, or they just cant raid.

Why is it crap: With the LFG there is a wonderful possibility to make end content available to everyone. Why should blizzard create content like original naxx for the upper 10.000? And yes, attunements are crap. In original wow a attunement for an initial-raid like MC was the stupiest idea ever. And All BC-Attunements were a bunch of crap. When AQ came out, no one complained that AQ didn't have an attunement, as far as i know. the same in Sunwell. Attonements were never an sign that someone can play, it's only a sign that somebody did this. But not if he can play or not. (on my server a lot of people paid to be pulled through the instances)

If you want to see if someone is skilled you need to see on the equip: If everything is enchanted (they must not be the strongest enchants) and they thought about their sockets, thats a better sign if someone can raid or not.

[ambident]

I love these post. Complete and utter ignorance, and I bet you didn't even read the entire post. WoW was a great MMO but the design decisions of the past 3-4 years have definitely not the best. The game has been made to appeal to bad player, and reward them for being bad.

i don't believe the game appeals to bad players, would be more accurate to say that the game doesn't reward you for playing well or encourage you to.
this game has never been easier.
the playerbase is not stupid and never has been.

The LFD, LFR, name change, server change, cross realm battlegrounds has led to a community that cares nothing for others; the average WoW player is a selfish arrogant loudmouth just because he can as there's absolutely no consequences to his actions.

nobody argued that these features were bad when they came out. i was overjoyed at almost all of these changes, i thought they were brilliant.
they ended up having unintended consequences that really ruined the game for many of the people i knew.

---------- Post added 2011-11-19 at 07:07 AM ----------

Attonements were never an sign that someone can play, it's only a sign that somebody did this. But not if he can play or not. (on my server a lot of people paid to be pulled through the instances)

i won't argue to bring back attunements, but they did require a certain level of commitment.
want to raid? ok do these things first.
now it is
want to raid? well are you 85?

[ihyln]

I see what Zell was talking about. Hell, this thread consisted of at least 3 pages of dumb tools that clicked on the post, skimmed through it, and decided to post "hurrr hu is he and y do i kare?". Then the lightbulb pops in your head and you realize everything he said was right, about Blizzard, and the gamers.

I agree with everything he has said and more importantly LFD killed any sense of immersion. It's just sit in a queue, go, rise and repeat. Boring.

[Kamatayan]

Who gives a rat's ass this moron quit so what it is not like he is some world top player or anything he is just some forum hero.

[ihyln]

Who gives a rat's ass this moron quit so what it is not like he is some world top player or anything he is just some forum hero.

The same reason why two rats mated, named you, and now we get to hear about how your post matters.

[RealHero]

Zell is new swifty, when he leaves or get banned his every fanboy starts to cry :]

[Seebach]

This.. who cares..

If you don't care, don't post. Your opinion isn't actually nescessary for this particular thread.

[Porimlys]

This guy quitting should not effect your opinion on the game, whether it is positive or negative. only YOU know how you feel about the game, don't let anyone else try to tell you how you should feel about the game. I log onto WoW and I have a blast, so I will not be quitting the game anytime soon but I understand that doesn't mean everyone shares my experiences.

[JimPaladin]

He's right on a few things.

All in all just another "cataclysm sucks dungeon finder ruined game goodbye suckers ehehehe" post.

[Southern]

Way back when man began exploring the 'known' world, everything was bigger, bolder, more invigorating, challenging, no room for error if they wanted to come back alive...

Then man began the 'rabbit' theory and suddenly the world as we know it now is no longer as 'big' as it was back then. Now man is everywhere, billions of people that need to be looked out for and all nations will primarily (when their governments are not enriching their own pockets) look after the good of the masses before worrying about the explorers.

And this is what has happened to WoW. Vanilla and TBC certainly didn't have the amazing amount of subscribers that Wrath and then Cataclysm had and Blizz now finds itself having to cater to the masses. Guess it's the evolution of things. Do the majority of kids that go to school today care about the founding fathers of their respective nations? Generally speaking, not. And this is generally what is happening in WoW these days, with players just blasting through 85 levels and not caring about the lore. If Blizz is worried about ilvl squashing, they should also worry about what grinding 85 levels at highspeed is doing to their game. Guess it's also the 8-second attention span of society today and Blizz's attempt to maintain interest.

Zell has raised the same concerns that has seen my WoW gameplay decrease and ultimately stop, the final straw being Blizz denying that Pandas would ever be a playable race...and then MoP...couldn't stop laughing at the silliness. And I *loved* the Panda Hero from Warcraft3 Frozen Throne, but Blizz's attitude to the playerbase that is Zell and others like him and me, well it's past time to look elsewhere and begin enjoying an online game again.

To those that are still enjoying themselves and will enjoy MoP, good for you and have fun

Hopefully Blizz will continue to look out for their new kind of playerbase that they are aiming for.

[Mx]

If Blizz is worried about ilvl squashing, they should also worry about what grinding 85 levels at highspeed is doing to their game.

At the same time, if they slowed down the leveling experience, the same guy would write another post up saying how it takes too long to reach the end game content.

Zell has raised the same concerns that has seen my WoW gameplay decrease and ultimately stop

Just like him, the words "I" and "Me" and "My" are very common in the post, and thus represent your opinion of something personally, and does not reflect everyone's opinion.

the final straw being Blizz denying that Pandas would ever be a playable race and then MoP...couldn't stop laughing at the silliness.

This is not true, stop putting words in their mouth just to produce a reason for you to not enjoy the expansion that isn't even out yet, and once again, your opinion in terms of reaction.

but Blizz's attitude to the playerbase that is Zell and others like him and me, well it's past time to look elsewhere and begin enjoying an online game again.

As a player of 7 years for World of Warcraft, and a player of Blizzard's games way before that, I can tell you that their attitude toward me has been nothing but stellar, and if you don't find yourself having a good time in the game, then by all means its your decision to not play it, but please don't go running around acting as if everyone as a whole is being punished.

To those that are still enjoying themselves and will enjoy MoP, good for you and have fun

Thank you.

[JimPaladin]

I will say THIS, atleast-

I think his point on the LFD feature ruining the game is just crazy. I hate whenever ANYONE brings it up. Did it sort of separate the community up a bit? Yes, it sure did. Did it ruin anything? FUCK no.

What is worse? Sitting in trade, spamming for a healer or tank for what could be an HOUR OR MORE for a specific dungeon you want to do? Hoping your guild mates or friends will log on? Getting a quest to kill a dungeon boss, so you spam /zonechat without prevail until you just find a high level friend to run you through the dungeon?

Or

Queing for the Dungeon.

Come on. It almost disgusts me people so readily throw the problems we faced without a LFD tool out the door just so they can try to say "B-B-B-BUT IT RUINED THE WORLD!!!!!!! THERES NO COMMUNITY ANYMORE!!!!! WAAAAA!!!!! WWWWWWWAAAAAAAAA!" It's literally crazy. What in the world did not having a LFD do to "make the world feel expansive"? Did sitting on a flight path while alt-tabbing while you flew too the dungeon entrance add anything to immersion? No. No it did fucking not. Walking mindlessly up to it while avoiding enemies in the area to get to the summoning stone, then waiting another ten minutes for a second guy to show up (if anyone bothered to even travel for summons at all) did not add to immersion.

It is legitimately fucking crazy that people try saying LFD was a bad thing. It. Blows. My. Mind. I have characters across a couple different servers and no "community" was broken up because of LFD. I'm well-known as a great tank and raid leader across my server, despite the Tank being made on another server when LFD came out. Why? Because I do raids, get involved with guilds and help out people. If any server was torn apart because of LFD, then that just goes to show they probably weren't a very good server to begin with. "Oh my God no one will know I'm a good tank BECAUSE WE DONT DO HEROIC DEADMINES TOGETHER!!!!!". Crazy.

True, it does devalue the world a bit because you do just teleport right to the dungeon, but again, how does AFKing in a flight path add anymore immersion to your expierence? How does spamming trade when you don't have friends or guild members on add immersion? How does not being able to get groups for your level of dungeon add immersion? How. Anyone. I'm asking anyone for a legitimate answer to how this was so much more "wonderful" and "atmospheric".

Because don't get me wrong. LFD isn't the BEST thing ever. It has it's share of flaws that I wish Blizzard would get off their chubby asses and fix, but it's a MUCH better alternative to the utter crap we had to do before. "It kills communities and exploration" is a total bullshit argument.

And about making Tanking easier. Okay, they made threat easier. Big deal. There's still a lot more that goes into tanking well (or not so well) than just holding aggro. If any tank feels they're being jipped because "now any tank can hold aggro", well- that just tells me they were a bad tank to begin with to be worried about such a stupid change. Good tanks don't care and bad tanks are still bad. World keeps spinning. Which isn't to say I was exactly tickled pink about it myself. I mean, it's a cool addition and stuff, but they did it right in the middle of freaking Firelands, making any tank gear with hit or EXP essentially pretty useless. Mirrored Boots, which are very hard to obtain, are now a BiS. So it's sort of annoying, but hey.

Other than stuff like that, Zell IS very correct about lots of other things. I'm not debunking his whole argument. I fully agree with stuff like Blizzard telling the players "You don't know what fun is.". They keep fucking with healers for NO REASON and all it's doing is making people angry and want to stop healing. I do not understand why. PvP is another thing, but come on. That crap was bad in Vanilla, saved only slightly in TBC, then went back to being deader than dead after that. I've always considered PvP to be a "small side addition to the game if you're into that kind of crap" and nothing more. And this is coming from a guy who, throughout Vanilla and TBC, was a huge PvPer. I'd like (love) to see more world PvP because it's anonymous, fun, entertaining, often with no goals or rewards other than "for the hell of it", and is void of all the balance issues the game has. Tol Barad is an even bigger joke than Wintergrasp and I fail to believe the developers working on it spent longer than ten minutes designing it. I LITERALLY could have done a MUCH BETTER job on Tol Barad IF I DID IT ALL BY MYSELF.

The Battlegrounds we got in Cataclysm were jokes, too. Warsong Gulch with a river and Arathi Basin with three nodes. Oh wow! Exciting!

I've liked Blizzard's steps to make endgame raids more accessible to more casual or "bad" players, but I agree what they're doing with Cataclysm raids isn't the right idea. To me, Ice Crown Citadel was the absolute best way to "nerf" raids. By buffing the players so much, you were keeping the content at the same level, but enabling players to be so powerful, it was much easier. True lots of idiots were like "wow icc is soooo stupid ez lol!!!! blizz nerfed it so hard!", but these weren't the players doing 25 man heroic with the buff turned off. These were people who were probably not Kingslayers even with the 30% buff.

They didn't touch the bosses or mechanics. They only buffed the players with an OPTIONAL BUFF. That was by far, the best way to do it. Not devalue the entire experience by, quite literally as to what Zell said, gutting the bosses. Firelands was an easy raid to begin with, but after the Nerfs, ohhhh boy. It's a glorified five man almost.

I'm totally fine with making raids more accessible and easier for people to down. They pay for the content, afterall. Why should they be revoked from experiencing it for whatever reason? But actually nerfing the bosses and mechanics is not the way to do it. By the end of Wrath practically anyone who wanted Kingslayer had it, but the raid was still just as hard (save for the removal of Chill of the Throne, atleast) as it was the very same day it came out. Why they decided to take this new path, I do not know.


So, all in all, his post is half stupid, generic reasons and half truth.

[ihyln]

I will say THIS, atleast-

You know, Zell touched upon an awful lot of what is wrong with WoW and the players. You maybe hit three points total and barely articulated them. Fanboys cannot think objectively compared to someone who is now disenfranchised. An extremely large percentage of the people responding here just simply don't get what's wrong with WoW and end up responding with bullshit or extra long bullshit as evident in your case.

TLR? WoW has lost difficulty and immersion. We all play to get away, not engage in second jobs surrounded by a sociopathic online universe.

[Duridi]

Other than stuff like that, Zell IS very correct about lots of other things. I'm not debunking his whole argument. I fully agree with stuff like Blizzard telling the players "You don't know what fun is.". They keep fucking with healers for NO REASON and all it's doing is making people angry and want to stop healing.

Fucking with healing?

WotLK was fucking with healing, not Cataclysm.

Just had to comment that. It's you against me on that part. Like I have said to others coming with the same statement, "Where you stop healing, I get back into it". Don't get me wrong, I did heal also during WotLK, but I hated it and eventually stopped doing endgame though I kept calling my main a restoration druid.

[ambident]

I will say THIS, atleast-

I think his point on the LFD feature ruining the game is just crazy. I hate whenever ANYONE brings it up. Did it sort of separate the community up a bit? Yes, it sure did. Did it ruin anything? FUCK no.

in 9/10 lfd heroics i run they could literally replace all the people with bots and i wouldn't notice.

[JimPaladin]

You know, Zell touched upon an awful lot of what is wrong with WoW and the players. You maybe hit three points total and barely articulated them. Fanboys cannot think objectively compared to someone who is now disenfranchised. An extremely large percentage of the people responding here just simply don't get what's wrong with WoW and end up responding with bullshit or extra long bullshit as evident in your case.

TLR? WoW has lost difficulty and immersion. We all play to get away, not engage in second jobs surrounded by a sociopathic online universe.

Excuse me? First, I didn't say I was debunking everything. I actually agreed with most of it. I was just saying some things I didn't think were true about his argument. Second, I went into deep detail with everything I brought up. Just look at the size of my post. If anyone is at fault for NOT articulating everything he brings up, it's Zell himself.

Third, WoW has not gained or lost any amount of difficulty or immersion. It does like to NERF it's difficulty for some reason, but it's not the end of the world. Funny how you try to call me a "fanboy", when I openly said WoW DOES have a lot wrong with it and when you are clearly a Zell fanboy yourself. Go away. Your lack of intelligence or real discussion is not welcomed or valued here.

Oh and, another thing I find hilarious is "We play WoW to get away, not as a second job". This makes me seriously think you started playing around the time ICC came out or something. You clearly have little clue that WoW has always pretty much been like this. Infact, ever since WotLK, it's become much LESS like a "Second job". You clown.

Fucking with healing?

WotLK was fucking with healing, not Cataclysm.

Just had to comment that. It's you against me on that part. Like I have said to others coming with the same statement, "Where you stop healing, I get back into it". Don't get me wrong, I did heal also during WotLK, but I hated it and eventually stopped doing endgame though I kept calling my main a restoration druid.

While WotLK did do a lot of stupid stuff with healing (mainly, at the end, making it incredibly easy, even on healing intensive fights), they atleast didn't do what they've been doing in Cataclysm. They say they want to do one thing, then turn around and do the exact opposite while telling healers "You don't know what the right way to heal is". They've had this attitude/method since the game launch, but since Cataclysm, it's picked up A LOT. It's honestly the one thing that indisputably bad with Cataclysm. I guess it just depends on which you hate more, really.

in 9/10 lfd heroics i run they could literally replace all the people with bots and i wouldn't notice.

I'm not sure what you're saying, here. Are you trying to agree with what I said or disagree? Your post doesn't have much relevance to what I said or structure in general.

Edit: Also, Zell is a bit of a dick in general. I like how he made an incredibly spiteful and aggressive thread saying "Get good or don't play" and then claims there was no reason for it to be locked. This is a moot point to the grand scheme of things, but I just thought I'd add that in.

[Mx]

in 9/10 lfd heroics i run they could literally replace all the people with bots and i wouldn't notice.

Once again, that's your opinion, but in reality I have a feeling if everyone but you in your dungeon was as bot you would notice.

[Velerios]

i won't argue to bring back attunements, but they did require a certain level of commitment.
want to raid? ok do these things first.
now it is
want to raid? well are you 85?

I won't argue with that: at least the ilvl for the LFR-Tool will need a neccesary ilvl to join the raid, but what i would really like to see (even in the dungeon finder) is that there is at least a socket check (at least cata-green-gems for heroic instances, for LFR at least perfect green gems or better) and a check for cata-enchants for lfr-raids.

But attunements are only a bunch of crap.

And about the LFD-Tool: if he think it destroyes the community: he simply could search in the trade chat like before for people doing heroics: on my server there are already a lot of people who doesn't use the LFD-Tool, instead they create groups in the old way, and it works. Nobody hinders him to search for people and create himself a community, he only complains and complains and QQs about a tool that works really well for me. I doesn't need to look for 3 hours for a group for an specific instance: a lot of people doesn't have time for it. And if the LFD-Tool brings people like him to quit, even better.

Again: nobody hinders him to create an community for himself, but instead to work himself to this goal he QQs and blame Blizzard for it.

[pojasndfgyohasbdf]

The point isn't that he is quitting, its a discussion about the direction wow is going now. God every time someone tries to discuss something they dont like with wow they only get spammed with "qq more" "why should i care that u quit" etc. no matter how constructive the post is.