Automated LFD tool

[Fencers]

Does it really matter what server a random teammate is from?

Seems most posts are rooted in World of Warcraft bitterness.

[ShimmerSwirl]

Saying "if you don't play it the way I tell you to then you should get out of the game!" is also terribly rude and selfish.

I understand you are one of these people and you are personally offended by my point of view, but please don't put words in my mouth as I never said any of that.

[jayremy]

The flaw of LFD is a couple things:

Its WoW that is the Issue-
the trinity role system and how the game is designed.
RANDOM DUNGEONS, let the players get a FAIR choice on doing whatever the hell run they want to do.
Cross Server pool, that you CAN'T opt out of allowing people to get away with being idiots.
Loot, wipes and basic frustrating role+ game mechanics.
Lack of bad attitude behavior punishments Blizzard GMs can and will enforce.
Bonus "completion" points.

You guys seriously need to STOP WHINING, and think about the real issues. The feature is great, it simply is executed entirely the wrong way.

I ran more 5 mans ever in TBC than both WotLK and the 2-3 months of Cata I played combined when there was no LFD feature, I am grateful for it. Being the one to form the groups I had to deal with spamming trade/competing with others. Dealing with douchebags in whispers, being flooded with too many whispers and if you don't reply to all u get more rage from them. Sitting in a city due to lack of a LFG channel, doing nothing. Having to deal with people who nitpick and backseat lead groups yet I've done all the work to form it. Loot unfairness. Travel times to the same place over x 100 gets very fucking old.

I miss NOTHING about the old days, being one the leads and forms groups its most punishing to, not the lazy asses who can stand sitting in cities waiting for others to get a 4 person group before they join and help set up or summon.

[BlairPhoenix]

Does it really matter what server a random teammate is from?

Seems most posts are rooted in World of Warcraft bitterness.

That entirely depends on how easy it is to change servers. If it isn't easy to change servers, which I can foresee being the case due to how easy transfers could affect WvWvW, then I'd much rather play with people on my own server. Why? If I run into someone cool via LFD, I can actively play with that person later, instead of being walled off due to server restrictions. Likewise, if I run into someone that sucks, I can put them on my ignore list and it will actually mean something, as the chances of me running into that person again are much higher. It also helps build the community, as it's likely you will run into the people in your group again, there will be more incentive to communicate, network, etc.

[Cuchulainn]

Does it really matter what server a random teammate is from?

Seems most posts are rooted in World of Warcraft bitterness.

No matter how you try to defend it, it does matter. As BlairPheonix said:

If I run into someone cool via LFD, I can actively play with that person later, instead of being walled off due to server restrictions.

Most posts are not stemming from WoW hate, though that's what you seem to assume. It's stemming from picking at flaws in the way Blizzard handled the LFD tool. After all, they're the ones who invented it. If you're going to defend WoW though, which I see in most of your posts, then the MoP board might be right for you. Plenty of rational arguments get shot down there.

On point: the LFD tool was FUBAR in WoW, and it still is. Once again, if ArenaNet were to implement their own LFD tool it would no doubt be much much better, and not go ignored.

[Fencers]

Sitting in a city due to lack of a LFG channel, doing nothing. Having to deal with people who nitpick and backseat lead groups yet I've done all the work to form it. Loot unfairness. Travel times to the same place over x 100 gets very fucking old.

I miss NOTHING about the old days

I feel much the same. I did not, and never enjoyed, shouting in world chat for groups. And it's part of the reason I never truly been a PUG inclined player. I stick to guild runs 90% of the time. As all the manual group formation attempts I have been part of (leading or joining) were extremely inelegant.

No matter how you try to defend it, it does matter.

I'm not defending WoW's LFG. But do see a lot of posts that are citing [somewhat negative] experiences with the tool in World of Warcraft.

"picking at flaws in the way blizzard handled the LFG tool"

That is basically a confirmation of what I said- individual's bad experiences of the system resulting in bitterness.

There are a ton of people that play World of Warcraft. Some of them are jerks. Big deal.

[Cuchulainn]

I'm not defending WoW's LFG. But do see a lot of posts that are citing [somewhat negative] experiences with the tool in World of Warcraft.

"picking at flaws in the way blizzard handled the LFG tool"

That is basically a confirmation of what I said- individual's bad experiences of the system resulting in bitterness.

There are a ton of people that play World of Warcraft. Some of them are jerks. Big deal.

And the players have every right and reason to be bitter over a tool that sucks ass and continues to go ignored. They're not jerks, they're just disgruntled LFD victims.

On a side note, looking for groups through chat wasn't that bad. You guys are exaggerating it horrendously.

[Fencers]

Why does it suck? I didn't see anything in it's design or function that was bad at the time I used it. In Rift, their LFG system works swimmingly for L50s with much of the same function as WoW's did.

Did WoW's LFG tool match you up with a Fire Mage as tank or form a party of 5 Combat Rogues?

The problems I saw in the tool were not really preventable. Namely, DPS players out numbering tanks/healers in queue, bad players in a team and people on occasion being rude.

What LFG system could weed those factors out?

[ShimmerSwirl]

Why does it suck? I didn't see anything in it's design or function that was bad at the time I used it. In Rift, their LFG system works swimmingly for L50s with much of the same function as WoW's did.

Did WoW's LFG tool match you up with a Fire Mage as tank or form a party of 5 Combat Rogues?

The problems I saw in the tool were not really preventable. Namely, DPS players out numbering tanks/healers in queue, bad players in a team and people on occasion being rude.

What LFG system could weed those factors out?

You are completely ignoring what almost every anti-LFD comment in this thread has been about. People aren't complaining about the actual tool itself, or group comp, they are complaining about the indirect effect the tool had on the community.

Why does it suck? Because there is zero accountability, zero building of friendships, zero chat within the party. Friend lists do not grow, guilds lose an avenue to find recruits. There is no social penalty for being a loot-whoring ninja who acts like an idiot the entire dungeon.

Again, the games we talking about are MMOs. Just to clarify because some do not seem aware of this, MMO stands for 'Massively multiplayer online game.' Yes there are solo aspects to the game, many of them. But the game is mulitiplayer, its about the that people and the online community they create. And LFD is destructive to that community.

[sacrypheyes]

that was one thing ANet do not want and they regret having to add them to GW1. dungeons are meant for players and the group size is smaller too so groups are easier to make and there is also no trinity so you just need enough bodies to run the dungeons. and if you want DEs they scale so there is absolutely no need for henchmen/heroes.

well i was more thinking about henchmen with dungeons in mind, as i know i sometimes play at crazy hours back from work.

even back when GW1 was more popular, there were still places where there weren't enough people to run a full group; and for this, henchmen (and heroes) have always been of great help.

no henchmen for dungeons means that people will basically be stuck and forced to do something else if there's not enough human players around, which is quite a pity i believe as compared to GW1.

[ShimmerSwirl]

No, it being an MMO means that it's possible for you to socialize, not that you have to; there's plenty of aspects to GW2 that you're free to choose to partake in, it doesn't mean you HAVE to. Like e.g. PvP: not everyone likes PvP, but since it's there you obviously aren't playing the game "as intended" if you don't do it, per your argument. And you HAVE to partake in every single minigame too because, well, they're in the game and you're not playing "as intended" if you don't, right?

I understand what you're saying but to compare mini games with socializing in an MMO is like apples to oranges. If you didn't participate in any of the multiplayer aspects of GW2, you wouldn't have much of a game left. You wouldn't do the DE, you wouldn't PvP obviously, you wouldn't farm things to sell to other players, you wouldn't do any dungeons. You could enjoy the artwork and your personal story in your own instance, but at that point a single player game would probably be a better choice.

[Fencers]

That is precisely the point I am drawing, the tools themselves are fine. The negative aspects exist mostly in an individual's mind.

One could still shout in group chat for um, groups. But really there are only a handful of people out of a server's thousand that enjoyed that stuff. The rest just waited in city chat for "LFM PM xxLadySylvanasxx for invite."

LFG tools are by in large a great boon to the playability of MMOs. For every person who has a negative take on it there is someone who is just fine with the system.

That genie isn't going back into the bottle any time soon.

[sacrypheyes]

You are completely ignoring what almost every anti-LFD comment in this thread has been about. People aren't complaining about the actual tool itself, or group comp, they are complaining about the indirect effect the tool had on the community.

Why does it suck? Because there is zero accountability, zero building of friendships, zero chat within the party. Friend lists do not grow, guilds lose an avenue to find recruits. There is no social penalty for being a loot-whoring ninja who acts like an idiot the entire dungeon.

Again, the games we talking about are MMOs. Just to clarify because some do not seem aware of this, MMO stands for 'Massively multiplayer online game.' Yes there are solo aspects to the game, many of them. But the game is mulitiplayer, its about the that people and the online community they create. And LFD is destructive to that community.

well that, bliz can be blamed for as they're the ones who can modify the way it works.

if LFD was giving priority in grouping people from the same server instead of using a cross-server queue, the "i can act like a rtard bcos they're from different servers" syndrome might have been less of an issue.
for now, while i have no proof it's not already working this way, out of all the times i've used it, i think less than 5% of the players i've been grouped with were on the same server as me.

[ShimmerSwirl]

That is precisely the point I am drawing, the tools themselves are fine. The negative aspects exist mostly in an individual's mind.

Not true. They exist in (online) reality in the form of a degraded community.

One could still shout in group chat for um, groups. But really there are only a handful of people out of a server's thousand that enjoyed that stuff. The rest just waited in city chat for "LFM PM xxLadySylvanasxx for invite."

The way you talk about it, you would think no one actually played any PvE content before the amazing gift of the LFD tool. People still ran dungeons. A lot. They used the dungeon list tool. They used friend's list (remember those?). You make it sound as if the only way to get in a group was to 'shout' in a chat, desperately hoping to be heard.

LFG tools are by in large a great boon to the playability of MMOs. For every person who has a negative take on it there is someone who is just fine with the system.

That genie isn't going back into the bottle any time soon.

I think your worship of the LFD tool is unjustified. WoW was a the first game to use it in its current form, and that game has steadily lost subscribers since then. Im not saying its the direct reason for the losses, but to say its a 'great boon' when 2 million people have quit the game that invented it...not really a strong point.

[Blznsmri]

The way you talk about it, you would think no one actually played any PvE content before the amazing gift of the LFD tool. People still ran dungeons. A lot. They used the dungeon list tool. They used friend's list (remember those?). You make it sound as if the only way to get in a group was to 'shout' in a chat, desperately hoping to be heard.

It streamlined the system and attempted to get the players out of Cities. The attempt was to make the player go out and experience the world instead of standing in a city and spamming the LFG channel.

I think your worship of the LFD tool is unjustified. WoW was a the first game to use it in its current form, and that game has steadily lost subscribers since then. Im not saying its the direct reason for the losses, but to say its a 'great boon' when 2 million people have quit the game that invented it...not really a strong point.

Actually... The game peaked when LFD was introduced and only started to lose a serious amount of subs in the last year because of how little Blizzard delivered on content.

[Deleted]

Why people choose to ignore very simple facts that has been brought up in this thread so many times. Cross server LFD tool gives ZERO accountability, people have zero incentive to behave at least "normally". If you act as a total douche in a group of people from the same server, you may have to deal with the consequences.

GW2 should (will?) have similar system to GW1. Party browser, where you can filter by dungeon - of course, made by people from the same server.

[Ishu]

Why does it suck?

Do you even read the posts you respond to? This has been said several times already. It sucks because you are matched up with people who you can't just add to your friend list and do another run with them. If you want to add someone on your friend list who you met in the LFD tool you have to give them your real email address and real life name, which isn't really something you'd like to give to a complete stranger.

It has absolutely nothing to do with there being more or less assholes through the system, or queue times being long or anything like that. It's purely because of the fact that you can't add the people you play with to your friend list so you can play again later due to them being on different servers.

[ShimmerSwirl]

It streamlined the system and attempted to get the players out of Cities. The attempt was to make the player go out and experience the world instead of standing in a city and spamming the LFG channel.



Actually... The game peaked when LFD was introduced and only started to lose a serious amount of subs in the last year because of how little Blizzard delivered on content.

Well if that was their intent they utterly failed, seeing as how now no one ever leaves a city in WoW, they sit there waiting in ques.

And the game actually peaked in 2008, shortly after wotlk came out. LFD came out 1 year later, and people continued to leave.

[Odeezee]

well i was more thinking about henchmen with dungeons in mind, as i know i sometimes play at crazy hours back from work.

even back when GW1 was more popular, there were still places where there weren't enough people to run a full group; and for this, henchmen (and heroes) have always been of great help.

no henchmen for dungeons means that people will basically be stuck and forced to do something else if there's not enough human players around, which is quite a pity i believe as compared to GW1.

the issue is ANet would rather you make friends with ppl on your server than re-introduce henchmen as they lead to a VERY anti-social player climate just look at GW1 and i can forsee these same issues in SWTOR. companions/henchmen/heroes have no place in MMOs as they may provide a limited convenience at the expense of a more cooperative and social gaming community.

[Deleted]

I miss NOTHING about the old days, being one the leads and forms groups its most punishing to, not the lazy asses who can stand sitting in cities waiting for others to get a 4 person group before they join and help set up or summon.

I ran a pretty popular guild back in TBC and half through WOTLK and I rarely had to form groups via LFG chat, but when I did I absolutely hated it. It was so utterly cumbersome, slow, and you couldn't do anything else at the same time. Not to mention that the chat was always filled with gold spammers, people posting their "jokes" there and whatnot, so it was horribly tiresome to try to follow it.

Sure, the LFG tool had lots of flaws initially and it still could be improved, but gee, it's STILL helluva lot better than without it. Most of the issues come from it being cross-realm, but that cannot really be helped because of WoW relying on the holy trinity; it would be utterly punishing towards people from small realms if it wasn't cross-realm. In GW2 however there is no such a thing and thus much, much less need for cross-realm, either. Some people here continue shouting that it'll destroy the community, but.... well, if all the players are from the same realm then how can it destroy the community?

---------- Post added 2011-11-21 at 11:28 AM ----------

Why does it suck? Because there is zero accountability, zero building of friendships, zero chat within the party. Friend lists do not grow, guilds lose an avenue to find recruits. There is no social penalty for being a loot-whoring ninja who acts like an idiot the entire dungeon.

This has been addressed multiple times. The system is cross-realm plain and simple because of holy trinity and the utter shortage of tanks. In GW2 there is no holy trinity and thus no need for cross-realm tool, either. And if it isn't cross-realm then there IS accountability, guilds CAN recruit the people in the group, and so on.

---------- Post added 2011-11-21 at 11:41 AM ----------

I understand what you're saying but to compare mini games with socializing in an MMO is like apples to oranges. If you didn't participate in any of the multiplayer aspects of GW2, you wouldn't have much of a game left. You wouldn't do the DE, you wouldn't PvP obviously, you wouldn't farm things to sell to other players, you wouldn't do any dungeons. You could enjoy the artwork and your personal story in your own instance, but at that point a single player game would probably be a better choice.

You're entirely missing the point I made before: there are people who do not wish to take the initiative in forming a group. Their reasons for that may vary and I can think of atleast a dozen different reasons just out of my head. Now, for those people an LFG tool is god-sent; it'll allow them to form groups without having to be the one doing the actual forming of them.

Also, I still disagree with what you're saying. There's still a whole lot of stuff to do in GW2 even if you're doing only solo-content, well worth the 49€ price, and there ain't many single-player RPGs with that much content in as good a package.

And now, you've clearly misunderstood me, too: I never said I don't socialize or do anything with other players. I've ran a raiding guild of my own in WoW, I like doing an occasional BG, DEs sound pretty fun to my ear and all that. I however like to keep my friend list small and only consisting of people who truly are my friends, and I keep my social circles very small, I do not "socialize" with every single person I come across; 9 out of 10 people I meet are a-holes who I do not wish to have any contact with, and most of the rest may be nice but I have nothing in common with them and thus again I have no wish to stay in further contact with them. As such I am arguing for the inclusion of an LFG tool because I see so many disadvantages not to having one and I've seen so many different kinds of people to this day that I can understand their need for such; I personally could get by even without one, but I still admit that I would deeply hate having to spam a chat and wade through all the crap there, it is simply terribly, terribly unproductive.