1/2 serpent spread or 2/2 serpent spread ???

[Kaffeefilter]

Hey fellas,
i was wondering why most guides suggest putting only ONE point into serpent spread. Sure, the 6 seconds last long enough to re-apply by multishooting again before it expires, but what about the talent "improved serpent sting" ???
Doesnt putting 2 points in serpent spread double the initial damage caused by improved serpent sting, because the duration of the serpent sting is doubled ?

greets and thanks in advance

[Barael]

Doesnt putting 2 points in serpent spread double the initial damage caused by improved serpent sting, because the duration of the serpent sting is doubled ?

No. Also, 10chars.

[Serj Tankian]

2 points aren't really necessary since it won't increase your DPS at all by increasing the duration of the Sting. And you'll likely be firing off more than 1 Multi-Shot during an AoE phase or whatever.

[simsy1991]

it not worth it. stuff dies so farst when you multishot it will make no difference

[Bjorn9486]

You don't put 2/2 in Serpent Spread for a couple reasons:
1. Serpent Sting(SS) is on the magic damage table so it can only crit for 150% instead of 200% like physical damage
2. Serpent Spread happens when SS is refreshed; if there is multiple mobs you are going to be constantly spamming Multi-shot to get them all down and thus constantly refreshing SS until the mobs are dead from direct damage, not from DoTs
3. 2/2 Serpent Spread gives only a 9 second duration, not a 12 second one (aka doubling it) so the added affect from 1/2-2/2 is very minor

TL;DR - That one point can be spent better places for more DPS.

[Kaffeefilter]

Thanks for the answers, but i think you didnt get what i meant.
When having 2/2 improved serpent sting, applying serpent sting does 30% of the total dot damage at the time it first hits.
Serpent spread adds serpent sting when hitting with multishot. This means improved serpent sting kicks in and does damage proportional to the duration of the applied serpent sting. When having serpent sting on the targets and hitting them again with multishot, it doesnt just refresh the duration, but does once again the damage from improved serpent sting.

greets

[killahgrag]

I don't believe ISS affects the spread affect. In other words, the SSs that get spread around will only apply the DoT and not the ISS instant portion, regardless of the ISS talent being taken or not. I could be completely wrong, though. It's been a while since I've taken either talent.

[Roshar]

Improved Serpent Sting does 30% of damage that a full-length Serpent Sting does. It does not depend on the 6 seconds or 9 seconds of Serpent Spread which is why we don't take 2/2 since we'll be MSing again within 6 seconds anyway.

[killahgrag]

Improved Serpent Sting does 30% of damage that a full-length Serpent Sting does. It does not depend on the 6 seconds or 9 seconds of Serpent Spread which is why we don't take 2/2 since we'll be MSing again within 6 seconds anyway.

Like I said, I could be completely wrong... =P

[Nikkaszal]

Improved Serpent Sting does 30% of damage that a full-length Serpent Sting does. It does not depend on the 6 seconds or 9 seconds of Serpent Spread which is why we don't take 2/2 since we'll be MSing again within 6 seconds anyway.

This is exactly the reason. The only thing that changes when going from 1 to 2 points is the addition of three extra seconds on Serpent Spread's duration. The upfront damage of Improved Serpent Sting does not change.

Seeing as during AoE sessions you'll mostly be going MS-Cobra-Cobra on repeat after the initial burst, extending the duration isn't necessary.

[Kaffeefilter]

OK, thank you, that was my question.
So if i have improved serpent sting, serpent spread will always give me the 30% of the full (15 sec) dot damage right upfront. It will not depend on the duration provided by serpent spread.

correct ?

[Nikkaszal]

That's correct.

Serpent Spread will always apply Improved Serpent Sting damage equal to 30% of the damage of a 15sec SS.

[Sonasol]

You don't put 2/2 in Serpent Spread for a couple reasons:
1. Serpent Sting(SS) is on the magic damage table so it can only crit for 150% instead of 200% like physical damage
2. Serpent Spread happens when SS is refreshed; if there is multiple mobs you are going to be constantly spamming Multi-shot to get them all down and thus constantly refreshing SS until the mobs are dead from direct damage, not from DoTs
3. 2/2 Serpent Spread gives only a 9 second duration, not a 12 second one (aka doubling it) so the added affect from 1/2-2/2 is very minor

TL;DR - That one point can be spent better places for more DPS.

The main reason is because u got better options
Second what makes SV aoe so strong is the improved serpent sting. On aoe situations u gonna spam multishot, u not gonna hit once and wait to 9s to aply serpent to all again. If u spam it, doesnt matter if u have 6 ou 9s because u apply it before it ends either way

[Barael]

It only took you guys like 7 replies of discussion to hash out the answer I gave in the first reply :P

[Nitewatcher]

Trust me, the improved serpent sting talent is waaaay too underestimated.
I use my SV build exclusively for Beth'elak and I'm in charge of the adds.
Improved serpent sting is always nr.2 in recount, after multishot.
So to answer your question, YES, put 2/2 in serpent spread, because it affects direclty the dmg for improved serpent sting.
I tried both specs, with 1/2 and with 2/2. 2/2 always comes on top in AoE dmg.
People who say put only 1/2 never did true AoE.
Right now, with 2/2, the SV hunters have the best AoE in the game.

---------- Post added 2011-11-24 at 12:20 PM ----------

The main reason is because u got better options
Second what makes SV aoe so strong is the improved serpent sting. On aoe situations u gonna spam multishot, u not gonna hit once and wait to 9s to aply serpent to all again. If u spam it, doesnt matter if u have 6 ou 9s because u apply it before it ends either way

Yes it does, because improved serpent sting does 30% of the total dmg as instant dmg.
Learn to read the tooltip :-)

---------- Post added 2011-11-24 at 12:23 PM ----------

That's correct.

Serpent Spread will always apply Improved Serpent Sting damage equal to 30% of the damage of a 15sec SS.

you are wrong. Hitting with multishot will result in a serpent sting that lasts only 6/9 seconds.
So the ISS will do the dmg accordigly

[Asrialol]

With 1/2 Serpent Spread, unbuffed, Imp. SS hit for 3187 pretty much each time.
With 2/2 Serpent Spread, unbuffed, Imp. SS hit for 3187 pretty much each time.

This was with Multishot, obviously. A normal Serpent Sting makes imp. SS hit for 3187 as well.

So, having 2/2 doesn't make imp. SS deal more damage.

It should be quite obvious though. The tooltip reads "Your Serpent Sting also does instant damage equal to 30% of its total periodic effect". Notice the bold part.

2/2 isn't worth it.

[Blackmist]

You only need one point. ISS is always full strength, no matter the length of the dot. In AoE situations you'll be casting Multishot again before that 6 seconds is up anyway.

[Roshar]

Trust me, the improved serpent sting talent is waaaay too underestimated.
I use my SV build exclusively for Beth'elak and I'm in charge of the adds.
Improved serpent sting is always nr.2 in recount, after multishot.
So to answer your question, YES, put 2/2 in serpent spread, because it affects direclty the dmg for improved serpent sting.
I tried both specs, with 1/2 and with 2/2. 2/2 always comes on top in AoE dmg.
People who say put only 1/2 never did true AoE.
Right now, with 2/2, the SV hunters have the best AoE in the game.

---------- Post added 2011-11-24 at 12:20 PM ----------



Yes it does, because improved serpent sting does 30% of the total dmg as instant dmg.
Learn to read the tooltip :-)

---------- Post added 2011-11-24 at 12:23 PM ----------



you are wrong. Hitting with multishot will result in a serpent sting that lasts only 6/9 seconds.
So the ISS will do the dmg accordigly

This post is full of misinformation.

[Braegan]

Trust me, the improved serpent sting talent is waaaay too underestimated.
I use my SV build exclusively for Beth'elak and I'm in charge of the adds.
Improved serpent sting is always nr.2 in recount, after multishot.
So to answer your question, YES, put 2/2 in serpent spread, because it affects direclty the dmg for improved serpent sting.
I tried both specs, with 1/2 and with 2/2. 2/2 always comes on top in AoE dmg.
People who say put only 1/2 never did true AoE.
Right now, with 2/2, the SV hunters have the best AoE in the game.

---------- Post added 2011-11-24 at 12:20 PM ----------



Yes it does, because improved serpent sting does 30% of the total dmg as instant dmg.
Learn to read the tooltip :-)

---------- Post added 2011-11-24 at 12:23 PM ----------



you are wrong. Hitting with multishot will result in a serpent sting that lasts only 6/9 seconds.
So the ISS will do the dmg accordigly

Have yet to see it mentioned that SV with ISS is by no means whatsoever needed for Beth HC. I take care of adds in MM with the utility freeze and slows going about 9 deep in SV. I do this without gimping my single target DPS in ground phase. Play to your preference, of course, but there's no need to gimp yourself to handle these adds. Disengage ftw.

[Saisen]

You don't put 2/2 in Serpent Spread for a couple reasons:
1. Serpent Sting(SS) is on the magic damage table so it can only crit for 150% instead of 200% like physical damage
2. Serpent Spread happens when SS is refreshed; if there is multiple mobs you are going to be constantly spamming Multi-shot to get them all down and thus constantly refreshing SS until the mobs are dead from direct damage, not from DoTs
3. 2/2 Serpent Spread gives only a 9 second duration, not a 12 second one (aka doubling it) so the added affect from 1/2-2/2 is very minor

TL;DR - That one point can be spent better places for more DPS.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=82832/toxicology

Serpent sting is 200% as survival.

---------- Post added 2011-11-25 at 12:32 AM ----------

Trust me, the improved serpent sting talent is waaaay too underestimated.
I use my SV build exclusively for Beth'elak and I'm in charge of the adds.
Improved serpent sting is always nr.2 in recount, after multishot.
So to answer your question, YES, put 2/2 in serpent spread, because it affects direclty the dmg for improved serpent sting.
I tried both specs, with 1/2 and with 2/2. 2/2 always comes on top in AoE dmg.
People who say put only 1/2 never did true AoE.
Right now, with 2/2, the SV hunters have the best AoE in the game.

---------- Post added 2011-11-24 at 12:20 PM ----------



Yes it does, because improved serpent sting does 30% of the total dmg as instant dmg.
Learn to read the tooltip :-)

---------- Post added 2011-11-24 at 12:23 PM ----------



you are wrong. Hitting with multishot will result in a serpent sting that lasts only 6/9 seconds.
So the ISS will do the dmg accordigly

look one post under yours and you can see you are incorrect. I have tested this myself as well and 2/2 doesn't make improved serpent sting hit any harder. It would be nice to have both points but overall its not worth it.