TOR PvP - The good, the bad, and the ugly

[jearle]

My Background
First of all I am a huge fan of the game have been for years now, my post history in these forums will show that.
I have also played a number of MMOs over the years a few with major PvP aspects, DaOC, Shadowbane, WAR, Aion, and of course WoW PvP.
I am a WoW arena player have been since its creation in BC, my wife and I have played 2v2 and 3v3 for many years, at times for fun at times competitively. We were 1900 rated in BC times and usually ~2200 rated in the newer rating system. I am an above average PvPer, not a "pro", but I do understand and learn class mechanics due to being a max/min person and a guild/raid leader.

This is my opinion as a level 43 operative playing on a PvP server, sitting at rank 18, this does not include a review of Illum which I will do when I get some time to spend there (and there are people). I have played as Concealment and as Medic throughout my experience, so this is coming from the perspective of a MDPS and a Healer.

The Good
TOR PvP is like being in a Star Wars movie. There are people running around with lightsabers, blasters firing, and battles all around. The first time you experience it, it is really cool and awe inspiring.

You can queue up for instanced PvP anywhere in the world, and the mixing of all players level 10+ makes the queue times relatively short.

The XP from doing PvP makes it a viable leveling alternative.

Tanks are viable in PvP through abilities like taunt and guard working against players, there is a stat on the warzone scoreboard for tanks.

The boasting system allows lower level players to support their team, through increased hps, healing and damage.

The PvP is slower paced, there are no 1 shots, and the extreme burstyness and quickness of PvP is not apparent (1v1 of course).

Healers are killable, the length of time I could last against 2 DPS beating on me seemed appropriate and 1v1 against a pure dps we would both be close to dead after a minute or so of fighting.

Open world PvP is extremely fun, I have had several 1v1 encounters that lasted several minutes and some 4 v 4 encounters that were downright amazing.

Every player gets a 2 minute "PvP trinket" ability to remove harmful effects.

The Bad
Queuing up for PvP solo puts you at a huge disadvantage, current warzones require some coordination both strat wise and ability wise. Solo PvP can be very frustrating in TOR dealing with pug pvpers.

Currently the XP from PvP is too high, wins give you roughly 10-12% of a level and losses give you only slightly less at maybe 7% of a level. XP will hopefully be adjusted pre-launch but in its current state it makes doing non-class quests pointless (from a time saved perspective).

The boasting system can sometimes cause a lower level player to do more damage than a higher level player. This is believe to be due to longer cast times on lower level spells. Boasting system allows lower level players of classes with advantageous abilities the ability to use them against higher level players.

Healers are incredibly hard to see, many heals are instant and the animations do not make it apparent who to kill right away. This requires caling out the name of healers and making them KOS.

Open world PvP is limited, even on PvP servers the crossover is very minimal between the Rep and Emp. There are a couple areas where I ran into opposing faction players, for the most part you have to go find it.

The Ugly
No diminishing returns

All classes have CC/Stuns/Knockbacks on an extremely low timer, usually 1 minute with some knockbacks 20s.

Dispell has a 4.5 second CD

Major balance issues - Just a couple
Certain classes have AoE CC that last 8 seconds. (IA)
Certain classes have the ability to as DPS to Heal, CC, Stun, and Knockback (Sorc)
Certain classes have a huge range on their abilities and can interupt node capping from ~ 40 yards. (Sniper)
Range classes have a huge advantage over any melee class, closing the gap is difficult in general and when its closed the dmg doesnt seem high enough.
AoE abilities like Frag Grenade should not cancel all 4 people capping a node.

There is no hybrid penalty it seems, heals should cost more when not specced to heal ect.

Warzones
If they do not make some huge changes to the PvP and how it functions in Warzones, including the resolve system and how to deal CC/Stun/Knockbacks then the PvP will be extremely frustrating to a large number of people.

Alderaan - Not bad, actually its the most fun of the 3 warzones imo, usually some good small group PvP skirmishes of 2-4 players vying for nodes. The middle node has some structure issues since a long range person can stand up on the stairs and tag the people trying to cap the node. Besides the fact that without a top of the line graphics card, the lag makes it unplayable. I played on a HD4830 and was lagging immensely on low settings, upgraded to a HD6850 and it runs perfect on ultra.

Void - This place is slightly worse, the spawn point is like 50 yards from either of the doors at times you have 6+ players zerging one side. And you start seeing the massive issue with CC/Stuns/Knockbacks. Not to mention once a bomb is placed there is no possible way you are going to disarm it in the ~15 seconds before it blows. Once again this BG is about node capping and the abilities that interrupt capping become more apparent. The blast doors need to be spread further apart in the first 2 areas, defending becomes extremely easy and is based purely on the RNG of if you die when the barrier comes down. From the barrier going down i can get to either door in 3 seconds and hit it with a frag grenade to stop a cap. Maybe spread the doors and lower the lockout period might resolve this.

Huttball - Is the most frustrating wz to do solo. You can be triple CC'd on top of a fire spout and die. You can be working your way across a bridge to the end zone and have 1 stealth assassin of any level knock the entire group down into the pit. Everyone is usually in the same area for this warzone and you start seeing ~15 seconds of CC at times if your 2min cd is down. The air vents are just flat out annoying, the randomness of the direction either needs to be changed or have something where you can tell which direction it is going to throw you.
Huttball needs the map re-designed to make it competitive,possibly another longer route through the pit in order to score. Some classes compared to others are not worth taking in this Warzone. When you have a team of 4, coordinated, and on vent it can be a fun time, when i did this with some folks it was very fun. Passing is the key to the game and setting up plays. However for the solo PvP'er this is not apparent, most people don't pass, either cause they don't know how to or want to be a hero.

Overall I think that there is alot of potential for PvP in this game, changes are needed and hopefully will be addressed in the coming patches before release or possibly after release in an update. I have had moments when I loved the PvP (small groups or open world) and others where it was frustrating and simply not fun (Huttball at times, void at times). PvP is only one aspect of this game but it is one that will be critiqued immensely, I hope the devs are listening. Thanks for taking the time to read.

[Lumicide]

"Currently the XP from PvP is too high, wins give you roughly 10-12% of a level and losses give you only slightly less at maybe 7% of a level."

I'm not sure I'm against that, considering I may get bored of the core quests and only wanna do Class quests at some point... However, I was able to make it through Mass Effect 6 times... so that may not be much of an issue. hmmm.

[Trollsbane]

Nice write up. I don't necessarily agree with all the points, but that's just opinion. I personally hope Huttball isn't changed at all. I love the hazards always being a factor. I do agree that cc is too much as they need to tweak the resolve bar to compensate.

[Karnalsyn]

No diminishing returns

This is wrong. Diminishing returns are in the game and if I remember correctly, it's shared across all forms of cc....however that much I maybe mistaken on.

[volraths]

tyvm for the review

[Chrysia]

This is wrong. Diminishing returns are in the game and if I remember correctly, it's shared across all forms of cc....however that much I maybe mistaken on.

No, they actually aren't DR. They are full duration CCs until your resolve bar is filled, then you are immune. However, the resolve bar currently takes quite some time to fill. It's like 5 or 6 chained CCs to go full resolve, and by then you're MFed.

[Deleted]

an interesting read thanks. I think things will change a fair bit over time, I dont really expect everything to be perfect out of the gate, as people still are learning how to play. The CC is the thing that worries me mainly, it just isnt fun to be chain ccd, but I havent seen how the resolve bar works myself.

[Tierst]

-In my mind-

The good: Aww yea, now you see me, now you don't! *stealth*

The bad: Oh SH--- *Dolls has been slain*

The ugly: -The nonstop hours of me and my husband yelling at each other like we always do when pvp'ing together-

---

Hahah =] Cheers for the write-up, was looking for something like this.

[jearle]

This is wrong. Diminishing returns are in the game and if I remember correctly, it's shared across all forms of cc....however that much I maybe mistaken on.

There is no DR, Resolve is their fix for DR, but it is currently crap. It builds up extremely slow and degrades too fast.

---------- Post added 2011-11-23 at 02:10 PM ----------

Nice write up. I don't necessarily agree with all the points, but that's just opinion. I personally hope Huttball isn't changed at all. I love the hazards always being a factor. I do agree that cc is too much as they need to tweak the resolve bar to compensate.

I like the hazards, but i don't like being forced to go over the raised bridge aspect where a knockdown screws everything. Possibly an alternative route that takes 2X as long and has 2X as many hazards.

Went against an all SI premade the other night they had 4 and the 4 randoms with them 2 of them were SI, 6 SIs on a huttball team. If you ever experience something this frustrating let me know, haha.

[ssambakd]

Thanks for your post and info

lol I actually like some of the things you listed as "The Bad." Like the xp from pvp xD On serious note, i do like that healers are harder to find and not so obviously distinguishable. As someone who plays both a healer and a non-healer, i actually appreciate this.

Seems like (as one of the main issues) the resolve bar needs to be tested and tweaked a bit more.

You say some classes are not even worth bringing into Huttball. What classes in your opinion are not very useful, and why? My guess is mobility matters a lot there?

[Amgyn]

They approached the hybrid classes differently....

Lets take class A that can heal/dps/tank

in dps spec the class can heal at 100%, mitigate normally - the only difference is that they can dps at 115% more than other specs.
in heal spec the class can heal at 115%, mitigate normally and dps at 100%
in tank spec the class can heal at 100%, have high mitigation and dps at 100%.

so picking a spec doesnt gimp the rest of your abilities... it just Increases your specced abilities.

[jearle]

They approached the hybrid classes differently....

Lets take class A that can heal/dps/tank

in dps spec the class can heal at 100%, mitigate normally - the only difference is that they can dps at 115% more than other specs.
in heal spec the class can heal at 115%, mitigate normally and dps at 100%
in tank spec the class can heal at 100%, have high mitigation and dps at 100%.

so picking a spec doesnt gimp the rest of your abilities... it just Increases your specced abilities.

Exactly, which puts hybrid players at such a huge advantage in PvP. Not to mention the hybrid specs that can be created. I played a hybrid and they will be too powerful. Operative, Sorc, Powertechs who go DPS should take a hit to their healing abilities in some way.

[Trollsbane]

Beat the Knockback teams by being a tank.
I run into the pit and grab the speed boost when it's up, or to the side by the health boost, and charge them when they are coming out of the respawn zone. It's easy points usually.

[Gxeternal]

In the new patch notes, they states that the xp you get from warzones is being reduced.

[Deleted]

I got sick of the no DR thing, the way they tired to solve it is just awful.

I don't think me sitting in 4-5 4second stuns in a row before becoming immune makes it better, since I quite easily die in 2-3 stuns if people have brains and I've nobody healing me. This is as Juggernaut by the way.

[Karnalsyn]

No, they actually aren't DR. They are full duration CCs until your resolve bar is filled, then you are immune. However, the resolve bar currently takes quite some time to fill. It's like 5 or 6 chained CCs to go full resolve, and by then you're MFed.

Ah, I stand corrected. Guess I confused the resolve system with wow's DR.

[jearle]

In the new patch notes, they states that the xp you get from warzones is being reduced.

What new patch notes are you referring to? The XP was just raised 6 days ago on 11/17.

[Chrysia]

I got sick of the no DR thing, the way they tired to solve it is just awful.

I don't think me sitting in 4-5 4second stuns in a row before becoming immune makes it better, since I quite easily die in 2-3 stuns if people have brains and I've nobody healing me. This is as Juggernaut by the way.

I don't think the solution itself is awful, it just needs tweaked as it stands. Right now you are screwed long before you become immune.

[Gxeternal]

What new patch notes are you referring to? The XP was just raised 6 days ago on 11/17.

Todays patch notes, there was a small update today, saw it when i logged into the launcher to see if there was anything else that needed downloaded before friday. There was, small patch with some bug fixes, and the lowered xp for warzones was listed.

[Styxz]

Didnt they (BW) come out and say the resolve system is busted atm?

I could swear I read it somewhere, but don't remember where =/