Dragonwrath, Tarecgosa's Rest. How bad is the nerf for us?

[Kassina]

Hello there I've been searching a little about the Dragonwrath nerf and I tried to find some numbers on how bad the nerf is for Shadow Priests.
Since I'll get mine the end of this month and I want to know how much I will miss out on ;/

Just want to know if anyone have tested it on the PTR and maybe got some WoL to show.
Since I saw this on the Warlock forums.

Did some testing on 4.3 PTR with Dragonwrath, Tarecgosa's Rest - in affliction spec.

Pre-4.3
1020 ticks, 162 procs (15.882% of ticks procced WoT)
1009 ticks, 181 procs (17.938% of ticks procced WoT)
1160 ticks, 202 procs (17.413% of ticks procced WoT)
1131 ticks, 176 procs (15.561% of ticks procced WoT)
1159 ticks, 197 procs (16.997% of ticks procced WoT)

Average 16.758%


Post-4.3
1076 ticks, 80 procs (7.434% of ticks procced WoT)
1238 ticks, 92 procs (7.431% of ticks procced WoT)
1252 ticks, 109 procs (8.706% of ticks procced WoT)
1129 ticks, 93 procs (8.237% of ticks procced WoT)
1096 ticks, 76 procs (6.934% of ticks procced WoT)

Average 7.748%


Could assume proc chance was cut to half.

Also

Well looking at about a two hour window of PTR testing I only had a 3.3% proc chance of Dragonwrath, in comparison to the 9-12% you can get on live.

Someone will probably call me out on this and I might be wrong since I don't have an actual physical proc percentage at the minute but the proc alone seems to have been nerfed down to about a 1500 DPS increase. Meaning, the Madness of Deathwing heroic staff MIGHT be better, as I said though don't hold me to that, someone will probably call me out on it.

The nerf is only 2-3%; if you have it, you're not going to be replacing it. Before anyone says "what about H Deathwing loot?", that's a moot point because once you beat him on heroic, you've beaten the game and at that point you're farming gear you'll replace while leveling to 90.

no official number has been said by blizzard but most current numbers people have been getting is right around 8% for a proc rate, down from 10% for shadowpriest proc rates.

This is some posts I found, but since the patch is on its way in a week or two maybe someone got some "better" numbers.

Thanks! ;D

Ps. If there is a post about this already just link me there and lock this one or something!

[Yvaelle]

I haven't been on the PTR to do tests of my own yet, but I've spoken to a few shadowpriests who were testing it and the numbers you linked were about accurate from what I understand. They were reporting anything from 1/3rd to 2/3rd decrease to proc chance for any given spell - they seemed to think it had received different nerf rates to different spells - but that sounds a bit odd to me - so I assume it was just a small sample size issue.

[Deleted]

Went on PTR to test mine.

By spamming a dummy with just SW:P and Mind flay you can count all of the procs by looking at wrath of tarecgosa damage hits vs mindflay + SW:P ticks. Since there's no direct damage for the proc to 'hide'.

I did about 100 million damage spamming a test dummy to see what happened.
doing the same thing on live gave me 14-15% proc chance.
on PTR it was 9-10%.

I would have continued more but those numbers seemed fairly consistent and rounded enough.

In no way is this perfectly scientific but it satisfied my curiosity.

---------- Post added 2011-11-24 at 10:05 AM ----------

just to add to that post;

I think people are misunderstanding 'proc chance' with 'increased damage'.
People saying DTR has an 8% proc chance on live because 'wrath of tarecgosa' does 8% of their damage on recount are looking at it the wrong way.

---------- Post added 2011-11-24 at 10:49 AM ----------

Realised I had no actual numbers.

Went back onto PTR just to check I wasn't dreaming up results.
Very small sample test;

2578 dot ticks (Between MF / SW:P / VT) some other damage from lightning bolt / apparitions, I hope these don't proc the staff, if they do, meh.

Wrath of tarecgosa hits: 240

which gives a proc chance of 9.3%

[Kassina]

Went on PTR to test mine.

By spamming a dummy with just SW:P and Mind flay you can count all of the procs by looking at wrath of tarecgosa damage hits vs mindflay + SW:P ticks. Since there's no direct damage for the proc to 'hide'.

I did about 100 million damage spamming a test dummy to see what happened.
doing the same thing on live gave me 14-15% proc chance.
on PTR it was 9-10%.

I would have continued more but those numbers seemed fairly consistent and rounded enough.

In no way is this perfectly scientific but it satisfied my curiosity.

---------- Post added 2011-11-24 at 10:05 AM ----------

just to add to that post;

I think people are misunderstanding 'proc chance' with 'increased damage'.
People saying DTR has an 8% proc chance on live because 'wrath of tarecgosa' does 8% of their damage on recount are looking at it the wrong way.

---------- Post added 2011-11-24 at 10:49 AM ----------

Realised I had no actual numbers.

Went back onto PTR just to check I wasn't dreaming up results.
Very small sample test;

2578 dot ticks (Between MF / SW:P / VT) some other damage from lightning bolt / apparitions, I hope these don't proc the staff, if they do, meh.

Wrath of tarecgosa hits: 240

which gives a proc chance of 9.3%

Well, Thanks for posting this that would mean its around 5-6% nerf in proc = I'll never see a copy of MB ^^
No but serious 5-6% sound quite much. And i really this its sad that they're nerfing this legendary since no other legendary's have been nerfed since Thunderfury and that we casters haven't had one in quite a while.
But like it seems now this will be BiS to the next expansion and I will probably see some fun numbers with it^^ hehe

[Deleted]

Well, Thanks for posting this that would mean its around 5-6% nerf in proc = I'll never see a copy of MB ^^
No but serious 5-6% sound quite much. And i really this its sad that they're nerfing this legendary since no other legendary's have been nerfed since Thunderfury and that we casters haven't had one in quite a while.
But like it seems now this will be BiS to the next expansion and I will probably see some fun numbers with it^^ hehe

isn't 15% to 10% a 33% nerf?
my maths isn't that good though.

I don't see that many copied MBs on live really, I'm still waiting to get a double 150k

I'm interested to see a sim with BiS t13 gear to work out how much DPS gain the staff proc is going to give and compare that to the potential gains from using a higher ilvl weapon.

[tsa]

PP for 4.3 gear is almost ready and DRWT is just under the deathwing hc staff. Aka it's still BiS for a while...

[Kassina]

PP for 4.3 gear is almost ready and DRWT is just under the deathwing hc staff. Aka it's still BiS for a while...

What I've seen its still BiS over those weps and anyways I'll never come that far.

And Redsparrow what I actually meant is that its a 5-6 percentage of units nerf (if google.translate is right) But the actual nerf is what you say 33%
Hope you get what I mean about percentage of units (Swedish word Procentenhet)
http://translate.google.com/translat...tenhet&act=url

[Deleted]

Oh i'm with you now

would be interested to see if others results are the same as mine, I just don't have the time nor patience to get a large enough sample size.

[UunaPriest]

I suspect that due to the nature of the proc, even after the nerf it will be BiS even over the deathwing HC weapons.
Simply because the proc becomes increasingly powerful as the rest of your gear improves.
It will no doubt be exceptional for leveling towards 90 as well.

But I await simcraft results

[FieryBull]

Quick question, does the DTR procs also scale with the encounters buffs? (Damage boosts, or damage taken debuffs on boss)

If so, I can't see the DW staff ever coming close to DTR in actual encounters.

[Kassina]

Quick question, does the DTR procs also scale with the encounters buffs? (Damage boosts, or damage taken debuffs on boss)

If so, I can't see the DW staff ever coming close to DTR in actual encounters.

Yes I believe it does. Well 90% sure it does

[Hesp]

isn't 15% to 10% a 33% nerf?
my maths isn't that good though.

I don't see that many copied MBs on live really, I'm still waiting to get a double 150k ;)

I'm interested to see a sim with BiS t13 gear to work out how much DPS gain the staff proc is going to give and compare that to the potential gains from using a higher ilvl weapon.

You really won't ever see a double 150k mb due to the nature of the proc'd mb not benefitting from shadow orbs. And for the question of whether or not proc'd spells benefit from damage buffs, they actually benefit doubly. When the spell procs, it reapplies any debuffs or buffs present on the target. On a fight like Halfus, it is entirely possible for a sw:d to hit for 100k damage, then proc from the staff and benefit from an additional 500%, giving a 500k damage sw:d (ouch). Works the same way for resilience, which is why procs hit for almost nothing againt high resilience targets due to the double dipping on the reduced damage.

My personal tests seem to indicate a drop from a ~15% proc chance to a ~10% proc chance, which is similar to the numbers obtained by other testers. DTR looks to be bis up until heroic DW, but at that point I'm of the opinion that the loot really won't matter once you kill him. It will be interesting to see how the haste mechanics of the DW staff work, as it's very possible that a raid stacked with those staffs could keep very good uptime on the haste buff for the whole raid, granting additional raid dps moreso than personal dps. That said, I think our raid will probably hand out the first DW haste staffs to healers first simply because it will be a significant upgrade and they can be our haste buff mules.

[Kassina]

You really won't ever see a double 150k mb due to the nature of the proc'd mb not benefitting from shadow orbs. And for the question of whether or not proc'd spells benefit from damage buffs, they actually benefit doubly. When the spell procs, it reapplies any debuffs or buffs present on the target. On a fight like Halfus, it is entirely possible for a sw:d to hit for 100k damage, then proc from the staff and benefit from an additional 500%, giving a 500k damage sw:d (ouch). Works the same way for resilience, which is why procs hit for almost nothing againt high resilience targets due to the double dipping on the reduced damage.

My personal tests seem to indicate a drop from a ~15% proc chance to a ~10% proc chance, which is similar to the numbers obtained by other testers. DTR looks to be bis up until heroic DW, but at that point I'm of the opinion that the loot really won't matter once you kill him. It will be interesting to see how the haste mechanics of the DW staff work, as it's very possible that a raid stacked with those staffs could keep very good uptime on the haste buff for the whole raid, granting additional raid dps moreso than personal dps. That said, I think our raid will probably had out he first DW haste staffs to healers first simply because it will be a significant upgrade and they can be our haste buff mules.

Thats a bummer ;/

But for the Haste stacking from the DW staff the ones with DTR wont prob replace it asap, since wouldn't it be better for everyone else stack it so "we" with the staff get the haste increase? Since more haste = more spells = more copies = more dps = more fun = pay blizz.

[Deleted]

How are you seeing damage done with the staff? Can't find it on recount -.-'

[Kassina]

How are you seeing damage done with the staff? Can't find it on recount -.-'

I don't think you can. Since the proc I the same name of the spell and counts with the others.
But you can see on WoL something called Wrath of Tarecgosa but I don't really know what it counts.

[Daoloth]

Wrath of Tarecgosa is the proc you get from your dot ticks. However, direct damage procs (shadow bolt for example) are literally the same spell so it's very hard, if not impossible, to identify real spell casts from staff procs.

[Deleted]

DoT ticks including mind flay procs from the staff register on recount as 'wrath of tarecgosa' (it also has a little arcane blast type animation).

As a shadow priest you can stand and spam VT, SW: P and mind flay. Every single proc will register on recount and you can gain a proc% that way.
If you start using any direct damage (mind blast, devouring plague, SW: D or mind sear) then you won't see those procs as 'wrath of taregosa' and it becomes much harder to calculate the proc chance.

I assume that each spell has an equal chance to proc the staff so by using only dots it's quite easy to measure.
Other than getting a large enough sample size, which just takes forever.

Good shout on the proc not using shadow orbs, I suppose that's why I'm not seeing those double big crits :<

[Ravyna]

the procc uses you shadoworbs if you get one in the time between the original mb and the copied one
-> the original conusmes the orbs so the copied that comes right after the original is usually cast without orbs (it consumes them and gets the benefit if you get a new orb in that smale timeframe)

---------- Post added 2011-11-25 at 03:12 PM ----------

the copied spell works as an entire idenpendant spell (as if you would have cast a second spell right after the first one)

---------- Post added 2011-11-25 at 03:14 PM ----------

thats for direct dmg spells
dot´s work as mentioned above it copies an single tick of the dot and does the exat same dmg the original dottick did as arcane dmg (these proccs can be found under wrath of tarecgosa in recount wol etc)

[Yvaelle]

Actually, with the 4pc next tier flooding us with 5 times more orbs than we can use - the possibility of getting double huge mind blasts will be much better - so that will be neat to see! ^^

The way we tested MB proc chance was me and my guild master (on his dk) attacked a dummy with only Mind Blasts - after each MB he would cast Blood Boil - that way we could see pairs of MB's when they procced - it's useless for statistical data but we showed that you can get MB's benefiting from differing spellpower values, they crit seperately, and they don't both gain orbs (already known we were just being nerds).

[Kassina]

Actually, with the 4pc next tier flooding us with 5 times more orbs than we can use - the possibility of getting double huge mind blasts will be much better - so that will be neat to see! ^^

The way we tested MB proc chance was me and my guild master (on his dk) attacked a dummy with only Mind Blasts - after each MB he would cast Blood Boil - that way we could see pairs of MB's when they procced - it's useless for statistical data but we showed that you can get MB's benefiting from differing spellpower values, they crit seperately, and they don't both gain orbs (already known we were just being nerds).

Well haha awesome, well its just to wait then.