4.3 Retribution FAQ

[Vanderhuge]

This FAQ is intended for Retribution Paladins seeing PVE information in Patch 4.3.

SPEC AND GLYPHS

You should be using the following setup: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sbhMZM...szfz:RMobMc0mz

This is the list of primary glyphs you should be using:
Glyph of Seal of Truth - 10 free Expertise when SoT or SoR is active. Reforge to 16 Expertise and use this glyph.
Glyph of Templar's Verdict - 2nd highest DPS boost, increases the damage of one of our highest DPS abilities.
Glyph of Exorcism - Currently the third best glyph to use.

If you can't drop enough Expertise to use Glyph of Seal of Truth, then use Glyph of Crusader Strike. There's currently ongoing discussion if this will surpass Glyph of Exo at some point as gear levels increase.

ROTATION INFORMATION

The following addons are useful:
CLCInfo - http://wow.curseforge.com/addons/clctracker/
Requital's guide is AMAZING for this - http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...Clcinfo-How-To
CLCRet - http://wow.curseforge.com/addons/clcret/ (While this isn't perfect, it helps to learn the priority and deal with procs)

This is the current priority. Note that this assumes you have 2P T13 - if you do not, then Judgement drops below HoW in the priority. This priority comes courtesy of Anaxie:

• Get Inquisition up with 3 HP, reapply with 3 HP if it's about to drop
• Under 3HP Priority: CS > DP TV > J > Exo > HoW > HW > Cons
• 3HP Priority: DP TV > Exo > HP TV

When you have the T13 2-piece bonus, Judgement grants Holy Power, causing it to jump to the front of the "filler" portion of the priority. Keeping up Inquisition is a must - apply it with 3 HP and refresh it with whatever you've got if it's about to expire (less than 3 seconds).

For AoE situations (more than 4 targets), replace CS with Divine Storm and use as often as possible. Consecration overtakes Holy Wrath in priority in these situations.

As for cooldowns, you'll once again be pairing up Zealotry and Avenging Wrath together, and preferably using it during a Bloodlust. If paired with a Guardian of Ancient Kings, use the Zeal/AW combo 10 seconds after popping GoAK for the best results. As mentioned above, Judgement 2P T13 becomes the weakest filler ability during Zealotry - CLC has been updated to allow for this.

MAKING THE MOVE FROM T12 TO T13

Here are the respective tier bonuses:

T12 2-piece: Your Crusader Strike deals 15% additional damage as Fire damage over 4 sec.
T12 4-piece: Increases the duration of your Zealotry ability by 15 sec.
T13 2-piece: Your Judgement now grants a charge of Holy Power
T13 4-piece: Increases damage done during Zealotry by 18%

You should obtain 2P T13 ASAP - even the LFR versions are a substantial upgrade over Heroic 4P T12. Beyond this, the 4P simply adds icing to the cake.

WEAPON PRIORITY

• Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps
• Experimental Specimen Slicer
• Ataraxis, Cudgel of the Warmaster
• Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps
• Sulfuras, the Extinguished Hand
• Experimental Specimen Slicer
• Ataraxis, Cudgel of the Warmaster
• Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps

If you are a Human/Dwarf and use the extra 3 Expertise from using Ataraxis, then it will pull ahead of its respective Slicer counterpart.

STAT PRIORITY (GEMS + ENCHANTS)

This doesn't change at all. Strength still dominates all other stats, so stack it as much as possible.

Secondary stats remain the same: Hit (961, 841 for Draenai) > Expertise (481) > Mastery > Crit > Haste

For gemming, always use Bold Queen's Garnet in red sockets. Use Etched Shadow Spinel in blue sockets and Skillful Lava Coral in yellow sockets if the socket bonus is greater than 10 strength for each non-red socket on the item. For example, Legplates of Radiant Glory has two red sockets and a yellow socket with a 30 strength bonus. Matching the yellow socket would result in a net gain of 5 Strength and 25 Mastery.

Refer to the following list for enchantments:

• Head: Arcanum of the Dragonmaw / Arcanum of the Wildhammer
• Shoulders: Greater Inscription of Jagged Stone
• Cloak: Enchant Cloak - Greater Critical Strike
• Chest: Enchant Chest - Peerless Stats
• Wrist: Enchant Bracer - Major Strength
• Hands: Enchant Gloves - Mighty Strength
• Belt: Ebonsteel Belt Buckle + Bold Queen's Garnet
• Legs: Dragonscale Leg Armor
• Feet: Enchant Boots - Mastery
• Weapon: Enchant Weapon - Landslide

BiS/TRINKET INFO

Check out Anaxie's 4.3 BiS thread: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...n-4.3-BIS-list

As for trinket standings, refer to Kisko's thread: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-Firelands-4.2

USEFUL ADDONS

CLCRet or CLCInfo (While useful for learning how to deal with procs, they cannot replicate the priority perfectly)
Power Auras (Great for tracking everything - once you learn how to configure it)
NeedToKnow (Great for tracking cooldowns)
Your favorite boss mod (DBM, DXE, BigWigs)

OTHER USEFUL LINKS

MMO-Champion (Front Page/Paladin Forums)
Exemplar's Retribution Concordance on Elitist Jerks: http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t110342-...ps_ragnar_ohs/

YELL AT ME IF I MISSED SOMETHING/SOMETHING ISN'T RIGHT!

I typed this up rather quickly as a way to help those who don't have the time to search for all of these things. If I made a mistake, yell at me and I'll fix it.
If theorycrafting shows something new, I'll make sure to change it. I may also change the layout of this post if people don't like it, as I'm trying to make it as simple as possible. You can contact me here, in the thread or via PM, and in-game @ Vanderhuge on Lightning's Blade (US).


DRAGON SOUL ENCOUNTERS

Morchok

• You can bubble to stand and DPS for at least one Black Blood phase. Some DPS > Exo casts
• For Heroic, unglyph Divine Protection. It'll save you if you need to share stomp damage in 10 man. For 25, leave it to Sub Rogues.

Yor'sahj

• Small consideration for Selfless Healer here. WoG, LoH, and the Divine Storm heal do NOT add Deep Corruption stacks.
• Any version of Bone-Link Fetish is optimal for this fight, especially on Heroic, due to the high amount of add phases.

Warlord Zon'ozz

• Your damage output on Zon'ozz will increase as the fight moves along (each hit from the Void gives him a +damage taken debuff), so keep this in mind.
• Divine Protection is useful for many phases of this fight - for stacking during black phase, and for killing tentacles during Heroic mode.

Hagara the Stormbinder

• You can pass through Watery Entrenchment during Ice Phase by using Divine Shield, and Hand of Freedom will prevent it from slowing you
• On Heroic, Cleanse (1/2 in Acts of Sacrifice) will remove Frostflake if your raid is lacking in dispels
• You'll want to prefer an on-use trinket or BLF for this encounter. CotFD is too unreliable due to Frost/Lightning phases

Ultraxion

• Bubble can be used to take Hour of Twilight without taking damage
• Glyphed Divine Protection is another option for Hour of Twilight, but you will need some form of external shielding
• Practice getting phased out as late as possible, unless you need to do it early to meet a Fading Light followed by an Hour of Twilight. Less time out = more time on boss
• If using Gurthalak (let's assume you don't have a better option or the Heroic version), ask the raid to stack close to the boss. It helps to circumvent the odd bug with his hitbox and how the tentacles spawn

Warmaster Blackhorn

• Glyphed Divine Protection is very useful for Twilight Barrages
• Aside from that, this is mostly a classic "don't stand in the bad stuff" encounter

Spine of Deathwing

• You can attack the Burning Tendons from the middle of the spine. Don't stand on top of it and potentially force a barrel roll
• You can bubble out of the Corruptions' stun
• This is especially important for Heroic mode - you should be doing whatever possible to line up burst cooldowns for tendon phases. AW/Zeal + a good on-use trinket (Apparatus or Rotting Skull) will really help to burn them down.

Madness of Deathwing

• Glyphed DP has too many uses here. Blistering Tentacles, Elementium Bolts, Burning Blood, etc. Use it liberally and use it often
• Your 2 minute cooldowns line up perfectly with Mutated Corruption spawns, so keep this in mind
• You can help tanks cheat Impale with a well-timed Hand of Protection. Hit them during the cast, have them taunt, and cancel the effect after the cast ends. No damage taken, and no sudden deaths due to Hand of Sac!

Quick Information about 5.0 Changes (MoP)

Single Target

• 1 HP is now generated from CS, Judge, Exo, and HoW
• Judge now has a baseline 6 second CD
• Exorcism now has a 20 second CD, reset by Art of War
• HoW is only usable at <20% or during Avenging Wrath
• Templar's Verdict will remain the same as today, but can only be used with 3 HP

AoE

• Hammer of the Righteous is a shared Ret/Prot ability. Generates 1 HP when used
• Divine Storm is now the AoE finisher
• Consecration and Holy Wrath are now spec-specific to Prot and Holy, respectively. You will never see these abilities as Ret.

Other Baseline DPS Abilities

• Judgements of the Bold now applies the 4% Physical debuff
• Sanctity of Battle now allows haste to reduce the CD on CS, HotR, Judgement, and HoW
• Crusader's Zeal (similar to Flurry for Enhancement): 20% chance to increase attack speed by 25% for 3 melee swings. Unknown if this applies to Sanctity of Battle
• Inquisition is now 10 seconds per HP used, instead of 12. A blue post has already discussed the idea of a glyph granting more time per charge, at the cost of reduced damage
• Avenging Wrath and Guardian of Ancient Kings now have a 3 minute CD - which means they'll most likely be used together at all times
• Boundless Conviction, a new 85 ability, allows us to store a maximum of 5 HP instead of 3. No ability will consume more than 3, but a great ability for setting up burst damage or healing.

Seals

• Seal of Command is now the "starter" seal, which is replaced later depending on the situation
• Seal of Righteousness returns as the AoE "cleaving" seal
• Seal of Truth returns as the sustained single target seal
• Seal of Justice now applies a 50% slow on targets, after 7.5 years of asking for a legitimate snare.

Other Notes on Utility

• Rebuke, and other interrupts, will have a 15 second CD
• Cleanse now has an 8 second CD, but removes all diseases and poisons
• Auras removed from the game, but Crusader Aura becomes a passive ability
• Blinding Shield, our 87 ability, disorients nearby targets for 6 seconds. 3 minute CD

[Phantoms]

Le gasp, somebody actually decided to put together a Ret guide here on the forums??

With actual, pertinent, 4.3 information, no less??

I thank you, sir. Nice to see someone stepping up and at least putting some helpful info forward on the eve of patch day.

Sticky dis, please. We haven't had a Ret guide to show people for the entirety of Cata, save for Badpaladin's Q n A of sorts. Thanks Vanderhuge.

[Kisko]

Thread is updated with DS trinkets, link is the same, I decided not to create another (3rd) thread.

[Reith]

I think you're blowing 2-set T13 a little out of proportion. It's good but it's not great.

Crit is not necessarily better than haste unless you have trinkets than rely on it. Otherwise they're relatively equal.

What I'm interested in is if Glyph of Crusader Strike is better than Glyph of Exorcism with the best weapon.

[antigravitydogs]

I cant wait for 4.3 :P ret has easily been my favorite dps spec of all time. The only thing holding me back from playing it more often was the extremely tedious play style after using Avenging wrath and Zealotry. Smoother, more sustained dps is much more fun than a bursty spec imo.

[Deleted]

you mentioned glyph of judgement stil not being better than exor.

if your expertise caped without the truth glyph is judgement glyph now beter than crusader strike glyph? 10% judge vs 5% crit on strike?

[Vanderhuge]

I think you're blowing 2-set T13 a little out of proportion. It's good but it's not great.

Crit is not necessarily better than haste unless you have trinkets than rely on it. Otherwise they're relatively equal.

What I'm interested in is if Glyph of Crusader Strike is better than Glyph of Exorcism with the best weapon.

The more math I do about the set bonus, the more it seems to lean toward your argument. It's still a very nice change of pace that we won't be seeing permanently until 5.0, so might as well enjoy the benefit.

As for the second point, I'll make the change to tell people to run sims to see which way they swing.

For the third point, GoCS was catching up at a decent pace, especially with H Sulfuras. Wouldn't be much of a surprise to see it overpass GoExo at some point during 4.3.

[Syiler]

SoT glyph is the best Glyph in terms of DPS gain so you want to try and avoid getting the hard expertise cap. But even in the worst case scenario and you end up with to much expertise that you cant reforge off then no the Crusader Glyph is till pulling ahead over the judgement glyph for me on sim's

[Deleted]

For the third point, GoCS was catching up at a decent pace, especially with H Sulfuras. Wouldn't be much of a surprise to see it overpass GoExo at some point during 4.3.

wouldn't it go the other way due to there being no dragon soul 3.8's as the drop from 3.8 to 3.6 means the damg per swing is probably similar so cs damg is similar but anything working of attack power or spellpower is more ie white/censure/exorcism?

[Deleted]

What's the ability priority for our rotation?

Pre-T13: Inq > 3HP TV > CS > DP TV > HoW > Exo > J > HW > Cons
T13 2P: Inq > 3HP TV > CS > J > DP TV > HoW > Exo > HW > Cons

I am not sure that J > DP TV will be our priority with T13 2P, since Judgement itself can proc DP which would be wasted.

[FunkyMonk88]

sooo we can upgrade VP gear to heroic this time around?

[Eon Drache]

sooo we can upgrade VP gear to heroic this time around?

I'm not seeing that option, so probably not. Sucks, too. I was hoping to get a 403 cloak.

[Tobley]

With the buffs to judgement, is the glyph of judgement any good?

[BDF]

I am not sure that J > DP TV will be our priority with T13 2P, since Judgement itself can proc DP which would be wasted.

Indeed it has the chance to waste a DP proc, but that has to be balanced against the higher HP/time. I get the feeling that the trade-off might swing either way.

Also, is hammer of wrath really a higher priority that exorcism? That doesn't seem right anymore.

[Kisko]

Also, is hammer of wrath really a higher priority that exorcism? That doesn't seem right anymore.

It's not. Exo hits 2x as much as HoW on live.

My clcret string after I'll get 2P:

inqa inqrhp cs j inqrdp exoud tvdp exo tvhp how hw cons

[Vanderhuge]

I'm still a bit iffy about the J/DP TV swap, but we'll see how that plays out in a bit. As for Kisko's point, it's dead on. Exorcism (even without the DoT factored in) is hitting quite a bit harder than HoW, so the priority has been changed to reflect this in the OP.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but going back to the 4P T12 vs 2P T13 argument, let's say this:

For a 5 minute fight, we can expect to get off 3 Zealotry casts. Best case scenario, one's in Bloodlust, so that's 5 CS when under the effect with 4P T12. In the other two, you typically get 4 extra CS, for a grand total of 13 extra CS due to the bonus. This is equal to getting 26 extra Holy Power - as CS already gives 1 HP.

In that same 5 minute fight, let's say you Judge on cooldown outside of Zealotry, where the extra HP would be irrelevant in most cases. So, we come up with 240 sec/8 sec (J cooldown), or 30 additional Holy Power.

Now, let's assume something a bit longer, a 10 minute encounter. You get 5 Zeal casts off - 1 under lust (5 CS) and the others without (4 CS each). This equals 21 extra CS, or 42 Holy Power. Same deal with Judge - you use it on CD outside of Zeal. 500 sec/8 sec CD = 62.5, so 62 Holy Power.

TL;DR - 2P T13 > 4P T12 in terms of overall HP generation, which becomes greater over time, and smooths out the rotation outside of Zealotry. Sticking with the original statement of getting it ASAP.

[Asrialol]

Great post, making my Paladin my new main alt now and this info was just what I wanted :3

LOTS OF LOVE!

[rezoacken]

Indeed it has the chance to waste a DP proc, but that has to be balanced against the higher HP/time. I get the feeling that the trade-off might swing either way.

Also, is hammer of wrath really a higher priority that exorcism? That doesn't seem right anymore.

Nope HoW < Exo, swap them.

I'm a bit confuse as to why tvhp is so low on kisko's rotation though, rest is what I'm aiming for though.

[Tobley]

Noticing some interesting/annoying things about the 2piece.
The holy power sometimes takes ~1 second to register so you can potentially let a 2HoPo TV go off if you aren't paying attention.
Also, Its relatively annoying using CLCinfo because there's no update for 4.3.
If you have Zealotry up, obviously judgement is not worth using between CS/TV. I have to realize I need to use an ability and that when it says Judgement it should probably be Exo or HoW isntead.

[Jonuts]

wouldn't 4pT12>2pT13 for the simple fact that more damage when it matters and less damage over all is better than slightly more overall damage? Also, since you can pretty much frontload all that extra DPS into phases that might have say extra damage taken, have the effects of guardian, that extra 5s of golem blood, and any other such thing, wouldn't that extra 15s of zeal that's controllable be more valuable overall anyways?