frost dk 4.3 DW or 2hand pvp?

[Deleted]

So the patch 4.3 came out and now I can see that SO MANY changed to DW frost pvp?
Why is that? Is DW frost better than 2H now?

Help required please :P

[Racerover]

It honestly depends on playstyle. I play DW frost because I like the madness of swinging fast and attacking with both weapons. You're able to reforge a little more to mastery because of the 3% hit from talents, which increases the damage marginally.

[Deleted]

It honestly depends on playstyle. I play DW frost because I like the madness of swinging fast and attacking with both weapons. You're able to reforge a little more to mastery because of the 3% hit from talents, which increases the damage marginally.

So there were no buff to DW pvp?
And it all comes down to playstyle? I find 2h better for burst tbh

[Kegler]

It honestly depends on playstyle. I play DW frost because I like the madness of swinging fast and attacking with both weapons. You're able to reforge a little more to mastery because of the 3% hit from talents, which increases the damage marginally.

So does this mean you only need 2% hit for pvp with DW?

[iamthedevil]

DW owns 2h. Last season i got my Ruthless 378 2hander for my blood spec, so i decided to turn my DW frost spec back into 2h and try it out. My damage and burst was overall much lower and slower than with a 365 main hand and 359 off hand. I couldn't even play it seriously, it was just so horrible compared to DW. I immediately had to switch back.

2h does not compare to DW in any way, shape, or form.

Yes, you only need 2% hit with talents.

[Dyrtnap]

This looks long but it is a VERY quick read and contains info from an experienced perspective on both sides.

Here's an opinion from a 2500 player that really tried to make DW work last season:

DW Pro's:

Less Hit = more Mastery

DW has quite a bit of extra burst with their FS's. 10% from RI plus the fact that ToT produces larger strikes gives it a fairly nice benefit in the burst department. As a Human with Apparatus I would sit at + 66% Frost damage as DW with Str use trinket PoF and FC up I was critting in the 30k in T1 and 35k+ in T2. Impressive no?

DW is HB centric which gives it a different playstyle feel and makes you unafraid to burn runes at range that you might save for NS's as 2H.

DW has higher damage from white damage:

DW has higher uptime on KM.

DW geared with the right trinkets AS A HUMAN could before the Apparatus nerf produce near unhealable damage if the RNG gods were nice.

DW as a Human with Apparatus in 2's with a healer DW is unmatched in burst. App stacked to slowly for most double dps 2's. when the stars aligned I've killed quite a few people before they could Bubble/Iceblock

1 more weapon rune i.e. 10% more frost damage.

DW Cons:

DW is very resource starved. Even with a HB priority playstyle (which is required) you still have HUGE amounts of downtime.

DW is resource starved which is a survivability LIABILITY. LB heals and Ghoul Sac BOTH require RP. DW is very low on the RP gen and because of this can be caught with its pants down VERY often. This is absolutely the number 1 reason quit playing DW.

DW's resource starvation forces you to HAVE to spend EVERY BIT of RP in order to remain even close or superior to 2H in "damage". It give no room for utility and survivability(mentioned twice for emphasis)

DW CAN'T use NS as much and stay anywhere near to competitive in the "damage" department. (Damage is in quotes because I'm talking about NS's backloaded damage included in 2H's damage)

DW can't (shouldn't) use Oblit as a execute due to talent restrictions. Yes we rarely use Oblit BUT on those rare times that we are on a clothy with a KM proc and they are sub 35% Oblit is a nice execute it will outpace FS with both diseases up on cloth or leather at sub 35% and break even on mail (no shield).

DW doesn't use NS as much. With the intro of 25% MS's back into the mix NS sort of double dips and becomes much stronger. While yes CB and HB provides a snare it is still nowhere near as good as Desecration's everywhere. NS's cast slow mechanic is also fantastic and you HAVE to go with half as much uptime just to be able to stay competitive "damage" wise NS scales better with 20% AP buff.

Now that Apparatus is nerfed DW just lost its only edge imo which was being able to 100-0% things in 3-4 seconds.

DW is inferior in 3's, 5's and double DPS 2's because of the survival problems due to RP generation.

DW Conclusion:

I pushed hard for DW acceptance last season. I went both tiers of DW gear last season. I liked the playstyle better and I like occasionally playing an odd though viable spec. I tried it without Apparatus to have more survivability and it didn't work. I did the math and argued with people on the forums trying to prove I was right. I wasn't.

DW is not nearly as viable for competitive play in 3's or 5's imo. It lacks on demand survivability. It lacks NS spam which is just not as good as HB spam. DK's have such HUGE problems with survivability that its RP problems and its subsequent survivability issues alone make it vastly inferior to 2H it could do 30% more "damage" and it still wouldn't make a fuck because you die to easily.

2H Pro's:

High RP gen. You are almost swiming in it quite often. Its easier to set up full RP bar dumps on people.

High RP gen. You have much more on hand to use for survivability.

NS spam without sacrificing "damage". This becomes 25% more of a reason if you play with a MS class now it also scales better if you have a +20% ap buff than HB.

More steady dependable damage. Yes it is slightly less bursty but you put out pressure constantly.

Little to no downtime: depending on personality.

Ability to take Oblit talents as well as all the requisite utility talents.

2H Cons:

More Hit = less Mastery
Slightly less burst in 2's with a healer.

Little to no downtime: depending on personality.

1 less weapon rune meaning 10% less HB/FS/FF damage.


2H Conclusion:

In the end the pluses of 2H's survivability and its lack of substantial negatives puts it ahead. It burst is slightly inferior but it makes up for it by being able to stay alive longer which for a class with real survival issues vs melee especially is HUGE if you want to win games.

I swear to you I wanted it to work more than anything but it just doesn't in any venue other than 2's with a healer as human with a PvE trinket (that is now nerfed to hell) and BG's.