Grinding In GW2.

[fishious]

there is no traditional gear grind, you can basically get a piece of useful armor/weapons with each dungeon run and DE's give you karma which you can use to exchange for anything you want, so it's less of a "grind". basically as long as you are successful with any given content loot/gear is guaranteed so you only have to participate in content as long as it is enjoyable for you.

I'm pretty sure that completing dungeons gives you armor or weapon tokens. Armor tokens from explore mode, weapon token from story mode. I think that because of the limited amount of armor you have to get, plus the variation of directions you can go in each dungeon will keep it from feeling like much of a grind when trying to get a complete set of armor. There are also other sets of gear (the majority of gear, I imagine) which can be purchased with karma.

I don't really mind faction grinds, although they are not my favorite part of the game. WoW made it easier by using the tabard system, which gave you a reason to run dungeons repeatedly other than boredom/gear. I liked the faction system in EverQuest because it was a great feeling to finally walk up to a city and not be attacked by the guards. I got bored of them in WoW because it was usually just for a piece of gear. It was still a faction grind, but I find it hard to think of a faction system that isn't a grind in some respect.

[Fencers]

I liked the faction system in EverQuest because it was a great feeling to finally walk up to a city and not be attacked by the guards.

The best! Esp. when you saw a Dark Elf somewhere, you knew he earned the right to enter the city.

I miss real MMOs. :[

[Deleted]

Arenanet has stated that they don't want the players to do boring grinds, but instead enjoy the game. However, obtaining some of the best items will of course require some sort kind of grind. You don't get zhe epic loot effortless. (Hopefully) just not the average 'get 10 bones and 5 ears' grind. Instead players will probably 'grind' karma and gold etc. via DE's, dungeons and all the other things in Gw2 which are actually fun to do.
So I voted for ''I'm fine with the occasional grind. Just as long as it's not a mandatory part of progression.''.

[StationaryHawk]

I don't mind grinding, so long as it's not excessive, and GW2 doesn't look to be a game with much grinding (if any).

[Cuchulainn]

The best! Esp. when you saw a Dark Elf somewhere, you knew he earned the right to enter the city.

I miss real MMOs. :[

I believe that the feeling of "epicness" doesn't have to come from a grind though. I believe it should come from a legitimate challenge. Instead of grinding rep for weeks on end to get into a city, why not do an extremely challenging series of tasks ONCE? I think that "real MMOs" got it wrong. They took the easy route by making players grind the same thing over and over again rather than creating a quest line that's specific to each race of people (depending on the race their trying to become reputable with). So let's say that Drow wanted to get into a human city? He would then have to do a quest line specific to his race in order to prove his worth to the humans that is EXTREMELY difficult. Whereas a Dwarf would have to do a separate task, but it would be somewhat easier. The element of RP would still be there, but in a more interesting fashion.

[theredviola]

My perfect grind is where your ultimate goal is Goal No.10. But along the way you met and are awarded with rewards (be it gold, items, etc but they HAVE to be substantial) in between points 1 and 9.

I know there's a word for that type of reward system... I'll have to dig through my Ed Psych books to find it, but when I read about it years ago in my text I thought to myself "wow... this is how games are structure and how they SHOULD be structured."

Grinding can be fun, but there has to be something other than "the fun" contribute to said fun. Rewards are the best way to do that, but at the same time rewards can also quickly derail it with bad rewards. Making sure the grind is worth doing for not only the final reward, but the gradual ones.

I personally hate it when games try to approach rewarded grinds by saying "we don't want to make it feel mandatory" because I've seen that take the air out of a grind in a heart beat.

[Fencers]

I believe that the feeling of "epicness" doesn't have to come from a grind though. I believe it should come from a legitimate challenge. Instead of grinding rep for weeks on end to get into a city, why not do an extremely challenging series of tasks ONCE? I think that "real MMOs" got it wrong. They took the easy route by making players grind the same thing over and over again rather than creating a quest line that's specific to each race of people (depending on the race their trying to become reputable with). So let's say that Drow wanted to get into a human city? He would then have to do a quest line specific to his race in order to prove his worth to the humans that is EXTREMELY difficult. Whereas a Dwarf would have to do a separate task, but it would be somewhat easier. The element of RP would still be there, but in a more interesting fashion.

Well, EQ quests/rep was quite difficult to come by and such. Long quests are fine as masking the grind. But I greatly enjoy the aspect of just having tasks that could be done repeatedly as my time dictates.

I don't want to be doing a long quest line for months all the time. Sometimes, just sticking to smaller tasks that can be banged out over the course of a day is much more manageable.

[Cuchulainn]

Well, EQ quests/rep was quite difficult to come by and such. Long quests are fine as masking the grind. But I greatly enjoy the aspect of just having tasks that could be done repeatedly as my time dictates.

I don't want to be doing a long quest line for months all the time. Sometimes, just sticking to smaller tasks that can be banged out over the course of a day is much more manageable.

Quests in EQ were pretty much nonexistent anyway, I never understood why the leveling system in that game didn't revolve around questing, which is one of the main reasons why WoW became the next bread winner.

I don't believe questing is "masking" a grind. They're two different things entirely, that is, unless you're doing the same quests over and over again. My suggestion of a quest chain that gives you rep (a chain you only have to do once in order to get full rep) wouldn't be uber long. I would think around a 1-3 day range. A quest chain you can pick up or put down as you please. The only problem I see with implementing something like that would be development time. It would take a very long time to make the quest chains. Honestly, I don't think it'll ever be done in an MMO until technology allows developers to make them.

I have nothing against repeatable quests. They have their purpose. I just don't think they should be the only way to gain rep with a faction or race. i.e: the long, boring, and frustrating rep grind in Tol Barad.

[Fencers]

Quests in EQ were pretty much nonexistent anyway, I never understood why the leveling system in that game didn't revolve around questing, which is one of the main reasons why WoW became the next bread winner. <snip>

Have you played the Old Republic? It's very quest orientated. From leveling to mounts to faction rep and gear acquisition- everything is bundled in quests. And while the game is thoroughly excellent, having an endless parade of quests is really exhausting. It feels never ending.

I prefer a balance of the two; quests and grinds ala Rift. Where I can follow XX rep daily/quest or just go about smashing baddies for a bit.

[Cuchulainn]

Have you played the Old Republic? It's very quest orientated. From leveling to mounts to faction rep and gear acquisition- everything is bundled in quests. And while the game is thoroughly excellent, having an endless parade of quests is really exhausting. It feels never ending.

I prefer a balance of the two; quests and grinds ala Rift. Where I can follow XX rep daily/quest or just go about smashing baddies for a bit.

I completely agree! If there was nothing but quests, then questing in itself would feel like a grind. Which would kind of be ironic, haha.
That's why I'm glad there will be so much to do in GW2, including some grinding. I wouldn't mind there being a mandatory grind here and there while leveling, it would slow the pace and make getting to level 80 feel like an actual accomplishment. I don't mind a little max level grinding either for maybe a pet or rep. I'm all for it.

Rift had a nice leveling system. I'll agree. I got pretty bored after level 50 though, so I don't play anymore. I've heard they added a lot, but instead of paying 15 bucks a month, I'm going to SAVE 15 bucks a month then buy everything I can in the GW2 store with that money.

[Arkenaw]

Have you played the Old Republic? It's very quest orientated. From leveling to mounts to faction rep and gear acquisition- everything is bundled in quests. And while the game is thoroughly excellent, having an endless parade of quests is really exhausting. It feels never ending.

I prefer a balance of the two; quests and grinds ala Rift. Where I can follow XX rep daily/quest or just go about smashing baddies for a bit.

Agreed, and the ridiculous amount of dialogue made it worse, I hope they are more laconic in gw2

[Fencers]

I completely agree! If there was nothing but quests, then questing in itself would feel like a grind. Which would kind of be ironic, haha.
That's why I'm glad there will be so much to do in GW2, including some grinding. I wouldn't mind there being a mandatory grind here and there while leveling, it would slow the pace and make getting to level 80 feel like an actual accomplishment. I don't mind a little max level grinding either for maybe a pet or rep. I'm all for it.

Rift had a nice leveling system. I'll agree. I got pretty bored after level 50 though, so I don't play anymore. I've heard they added a lot, but instead of paying 15 bucks a month, I'm going to SAVE 15 bucks a month then buy everything I can in the GW2 store with that money.

See that's the thing- i am ready for mmos to get rid of leveling altogether. it's just pointless in a game without a subscription and nothing more than an extended tutorial in subscription mmos.

rift did it best, very fast leveling with compact quest hubs or ample grinding opportunities and a robust endgame.

keeping players delayed from an endgame is just kinda annoying. i think we'll see leveling process significantly truncated in future mmos. where most of the progression is held in the ranks of in-game reputation, prestige/valor, gear or other time investments.

[Glytch]

See that's the thing- i am ready for mmos to get rid of leveling altogether. it's just pointless in a game without a subscription and nothing more than an extended tutorial in subscription mmos.

rift did it best, very fast leveling with compact quest hubs or ample grinding opportunities and a robust endgame.

keeping players delayed from an endgame is just kinda annoying. i think we'll see leveling process significantly truncated in future mmos. where most of the progression is held in the ranks of in-game reputation, prestige/valor, gear or other time investments.

ive been dreaming of something like this for years

[Eec003]

they've done said. if something feels grindy, they'll remove it.

[haxs101]

All mmo's are going to have some kind of grind, I don't see how you can make a game without some kind of grind.

[Fencers]

ive been dreaming of something like this for years

you could create a max level character in gw1 but it was pvp only. there are a few korean mmos i played where access to max level near instant as well.

with mmos being so easy nowadays and the leveling process being utterly trivial- why even bother anymore? its an artifice and really i am playing & paying for the game so i can raid/dungeon run with friends.

[kendro1200]

Given GW2's purported combat system, I think grinding will much more enjoyable than in a hotkeyed MMO like WoW, where all you do is press the same 3 buttons, in the same order, repeatedly, then dingle around and wait for respawns.

You are aware that GW2 is a hotkey MMO as well, and for the most part combat does include you pushing three to four buttons in most cases. Yes, combat is more dynamic, but that doesn't completely change what it is. GW2 isn't a new breed of its own, it is merely improving and importing some aspects from other genres over to the MMO genre.

Don't take it as a GW2 bash, I absolutely love what I've seen so far of GW2, and I am very much looking forward to playing a Necro. Your entirely false statement though is something that should be pointed out and flagged for others as to avoid having that sort of misinformation spread about like a disease.

[Valeron]

See that's the thing- i am ready for mmos to get rid of leveling altogether. it's just pointless in a game without a subscription and nothing more than an extended tutorial in subscription mmos.

rift did it best, very fast leveling with compact quest hubs or ample grinding opportunities and a robust endgame.

keeping players delayed from an endgame is just kinda annoying. i think we'll see leveling process significantly truncated in future mmos. where most of the progression is held in the ranks of in-game reputation, prestige/valor, gear or other time investments.

I'm sick of levels as well. Have you looked at The Secret World at all? It is level-less and classless.

[Fencers]

I have. Quite excited for TSW.

[Glytch]

i think firefall will be devoid of levels as well it just has gear progression (being a FPS and all)