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  1. #1
    The Lightbringer chrisisvacant's Avatar
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    Shadow Word: Death and t13 2pc.

    I've seen mentions that SW is viable >25% with 2pc, but I am unsure where one would actually put that in their rotation? Does the bonus basically equate SW to a Death Coil/Frost Strike type deal where you can dump it if its up and you have nothing left to do but Mind Flay? Given that MF is one of our top dps abilities, where in the queue should SW now fall at 2pc t13??

  2. #2
    I am rusty but i think SWd w/o t13 set bonus does 33% more damage under 25% so with that being said SWD doing 55% more damage every cast would mean i would use it in a normal rotation

    As far as timing on the cast, in the opening you want to get es rolling on the dots as soon as possible so after that would dump the sWd after that keeping it on cd with having mind blast prio
    Last edited by Renue1; 2011-12-06 at 08:59 PM.

  3. #3
    SWD does something like 4-5k outside of execute phase, so increasing that by 55% still means that it's terrible (just slightly less so).

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer chrisisvacant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleysia View Post
    SWD does something like 4-5k outside of execute phase, so increasing that by 55% still means that it's terrible (just slightly less so).
    Interesting! So the bonus is basically useless and it doesn't actually make it viable outside of the execute phase? Lame.

  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire Cygne's Avatar
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    It's just like you said, if you everything is rolling and you wont have enough time to get a full flay in, SWD.

    I'm just a dumb rogue though, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleysia View Post
    SWD does something like 4-5k outside of execute phase, so increasing that by 55% still means that it's terrible (just slightly less so).

    Not true at all the talent mind melt increases swd's damage by 30%* (correction from my post above) and it gets used now under 25% so the set giving it 55% boost to its damage.... So tell me why wouldnt you use it above 25%?

    Also mind flay is one of our lowest<< dps abilities from its long channel it gets up there on our damage done becuse we spend some much time using it. As of now you interupt it to cast just about EVERY other skill all of this is in the guide if you spent the time to read it
    Last edited by Renue1; 2011-12-06 at 09:09 PM.

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer chrisisvacant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cygne View Post
    It's just like you said, if you everything is rolling and you wont have enough time to get a full flay in, SWD.

    I'm just a dumb rogue though, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
    My only problem with this is that dot clipping has been removed so there are really few times there isn't enough time to flay.

  8. #8
    When I simmed it for T13 H gear, placing SW: D only just above Mind Flay, it resulted in a ~400 DPS loss. That's just for using it on CD assuming you don't need to redo DoTs.

    Edit: It makes sense though. Mind Flay has mechanics that interact with other spells so you've got to take it as more than just it's pure damage value.
    Last edited by Venith; 2011-12-06 at 09:17 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Renue1 View Post
    Not true at all the talent mind melt increases swd's damage by 30%* (correction from my post above) and it gets used now under 25% so the set giving it 55% boost to its damage.... So tell me why wouldnt you use it above 25%?

    Also mind flay is one of our lowest<< dps abilities from its long channel it gets up there on our damage done becuse we spend some much time using it. As of now you interupt it to cast just about EVERY other skill all of this is in the guide if you spent the time to read it
    You forget that sw:d does 200% more damage in execute range as part of the baseline spell in addition to the 30% gained from talents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renue1 View Post
    I am rusty but i think SWd w/o t13 set bonus does 33% more damage under 25% so with that being said SWD doing 55% more damage every cast would mean i would use it in a normal rotation

    As far as timing on the cast, in the opening you want to get es rolling on the dots as soon as possible so after that would dump the sWd after that keeping it on cd with having mind blast prio
    It is 200% more much damage, not 33% more ie. the spell does 3x as much damage in execute range.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisisvacant View Post
    I've seen mentions that SW is viable >25% with 2pc, but I am unsure where one would actually put that in their rotation? Does the bonus basically equate SW to a Death Coil/Frost Strike type deal where you can dump it if its up and you have nothing left to do but Mind Flay? Given that MF is one of our top dps abilities, where in the queue should SW now fall at 2pc t13??
    Sims so far have shown you will not use sw:d outside of execute range except for mana. Even if new info came forth which would prove otherwise, the damage gain outside of execute range would be trivial. The true strength of the bonus lies in both the execute range and the fact that you will no longer have to avoid casting sw:d for fear of killing yourself. This unrealized dps gain by being able to safely sw:d during say the cataclysm cast, or during the final minute of Ultraxion will be significant.
    Last edited by Hesp; 2011-12-06 at 09:19 PM.

  10. #10
    Immortal Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Renue1, SW w/o t13 does closer to 300% more damage on targets under 25%, so much that, on certain fights, you CANT use it because the backlash damage can kill you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Renue1 View Post
    Not true at all the talent mind melt increases swd's damage by 30%* (correction from my post above) and it gets used now under 25% so the set giving it 55% boost to its damage.... So tell me why wouldnt you use it above 25%?

    Also mind flay is one of our lowest<< dps abilities from its long channel it gets up there on our damage done becuse we spend some much time using it. As of now you interupt it to cast just about EVERY other skill all of this is in the guide if you spent the time to read it
    Shadow Word: Death

    It does 3x more damage under 25% as a default. Plus as someone else mentioned Mind melt increases that tripled value by 30%. Those two things together is what makes sw: d sooo important to cast under 25%.

    A simple 55% increase in damage does not make it worth casting over 25%. The only time I would say use it above is if you need mana and you have no other way to get it back (somehow) or during movement and you don't want to overwrite a stronger DP with a weaker one.

  12. #12
    Forgot about the glyph>>>hiding in the corner<<<

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Renue1 View Post
    Forgot about the glyph>>>hiding in the corner<<<
    So what... you can double tap it? It's damage is still not high enough.. not to mention you want to MF to reduce the cd on fiend and to get orbs.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    <snip> during movement and you don't want to overwrite a stronger DP with a weaker one.
    It's actually simming right now that, during movement, you want to use SW: D over DP

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Venith View Post
    It's actually simming right now that, during movement, you want to use SW: D over DP
    What haste value are those sims being run with? Also link possibly? I haven't seen that.

  16. #16
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    SW: D is not worth using outside of 25% even with 2 set.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    So what... you can double tap it? It's damage is still not high enough.. not to mention you want to MF to reduce the cd on fiend and to get orbs.
    Nah what i ment was i forgot about the 3x damage boost when the targets hp is under 25%

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    What haste value are those sims being run with? Also link possibly? I haven't seen that.
    It's using the current BiS setup, 39.25% raid buffed (includes DI) haste, 23.85% crit. I'm just ran it on simcraft myself:

    J shadow_word_death,if=mana_pct<10
    K mind_flay
    L shadow_word_death,moving=1
    M devouring_plague,moving=1,if=mana_pct>10

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Renue1 View Post
    Nah what i ment was i forgot about the 3x damage boost when the targets hp is under 25%
    Oh ic I was super confused

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-06 at 04:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Venith View Post
    It's using the current BiS setup, 39.25% raid buffed (includes DI) haste, 23.85% crit. I'm just ran it on simcraft myself:

    J shadow_word_death,if=mana_pct<10
    K mind_flay
    L shadow_word_death,moving=1
    M devouring_plague,moving=1,if=mana_pct>10
    Hmm, I'll have to look at it more. I was mostly curious if it was calculating haste over 3202 (which I think looking at that it probably is but I'd want to make sure). I didn't say it in my first post but I was assuming over the imp dp bonus at 3202 haste.

  20. #20
    As to the SWD/DP when moving, it's only a very slight DPS gain. Like, for my priest (Venith, in sig) it sims as a 6DPS increase to use SWD>DP xD

    ---------- Post added 2011-12-06 at 04:36 PM ----------

    Ah, sorry, yeah I should have said the Haste rating. It's 28.75% unbuffed, so 3202 rating on the spot

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