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  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by Enosh View Post
    these events are designed around the idea of an unorganized pick up group defeating them, not around a dedicated focused team with vent, they would most probably be around LFR difficulty
    You are right in a sense that they should not require a organized group to defeat but asking for a difficulty similar to LFR is just plain wrong. LFR is nothing but glorified tank and spanks which is not what these events are or ever should be.

    What im saying is that each DE should not be a straight forward. There has to be wrinkles in it that make the fight different from the last. And the harder ones should have so many wrinkles so that the playerbase isnt just zerging the boss down but is doing multiple tasks in order to succeed. The player base shouldnt just be able to just start and event, have a boss spawn, and then boom the boss is dead 5 mins later with absolutely no challenge what so ever. Also remember that players arent fighting these bosses for gear, they are fighting them for the epic experience of the fight. 5 minutes of tank and spank in each event is going to get stale fast.

  2. #502
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    You are right in a sense that they should not require a organized group to defeat but asking for a difficulty similar to LFR is just plain wrong. LFR is nothing but glorified tank and spanks which is not what these events are or ever should be.

    What im saying is that each DE should not be a straight forward. There has to be wrinkles in it that make the fight different from the last. And the harder ones should have so many wrinkles so that the playerbase isnt just zerging the boss down but is doing multiple tasks in order to succeed. The player base shouldnt just be able to just start and event, have a boss spawn, and then boom the boss is dead 5 mins later with absolutely no challenge what so ever. Also remember that players arent fighting these bosses for gear, they are fighting them for the epic experience of the fight. 5 minutes of tank and spank in each event is going to get stale fast.
    LFR pretty much means that you can ignore key aspects of a fight(some oozes at one of the bosses). I would hate if they would numb down say, the shatterer to such a level. It would just be zerging boss, zerg crystals(probably about 20% of people in LFR would fail at even this) then back to boss. I'm not saying they should be dungeon level, you can't have such an amount of synergy from a group where people are joining on the fly. But some usage of brains would be nice like people having to focus on adds/crystals and dodging things. Things that do not require planned tactics, but just a good execution of the player as an individual.

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by Vewen View Post
    LFR pretty much means that you can ignore key aspects of a fight(some oozes at one of the bosses). I would hate if they would numb down say, the shatterer to such a level. It would just be zerging boss, zerg crystals(probably about 20% of people in LFR would fail at even this) then back to boss. I'm not saying they should be dungeon level, you can't have such an amount of synergy from a group where people are joining on the fly. But some usage of brains would be nice like people having to focus on adds/crystals and dodging things. Things that do not require planned tactics, but just a good execution of the player as an individual.
    Problem with this approach is that it would directly violate the "you should never hate that you got another bunch of players join you in dynamic event". Imagine a bunch of clueless people (remember the level of skill in LFR? That's the majority of any MMO player base) joining you for event that "requires you to have a good execution on player's part". Basically, you're going to be fucked, literally and figuratively, and you will hate that they joined you.

    This is one of the main reasons why we argue that events will have to be made easy. If they are not, additional clueless people joining will be cussed at, just like there is a lot of cussing in LFR at clueless people now. Even worse, they will be told to GTFO, in far nastier words, because if they leave, the event will scale back down.

  4. #504
    Scarab Lord Lothaeryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    Problem with this approach is that it would directly violate the "you should never hate that you got another bunch of players join you in dynamic event". Imagine a bunch of clueless people (remember the level of skill in LFR? That's the majority of any MMO player base) joining you for event that "requires you to have a good execution on player's part". Basically, you're going to be fucked, literally and figuratively, and you will hate that they joined you.

    This is one of the main reasons why we argue that events will have to be made easy. If they are not, additional clueless people joining will be cussed at, just like there is a lot of cussing in LFR at clueless people now. Even worse, they will be told to GTFO, in far nastier words, because if they leave, the event will scale back down.
    Your looking at it from a WoW worst case scenario however, there are quite a few Vets in the genre who played earlier MMOs that had very challenging outdoor content (I think he referenced Everquest), I hope that Arenanet will try to make their content along that line of difficulty in between impossibly hard due to stats, and enjoyably complex, yet simple in execution.

    The premise of the Worst case scenario is always noted from other companies mistakes in the past, of course that doesnt mean every developer heeds the warning. Hopefully though, Arenanet will make these encounters hard, and encourage the community to learn about the fight rather than QQ on the forums that it is too hard.
    Fod Sparta los wuth, ahrk okaaz gekenlok kruziik himdah, dinok fent kos rozol do daan wah jer do Samos. Ahrk haar do Heracles fent motaad, fah strunmah vonun fent yolein ko yol
    .

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    Problem with this approach is that it would directly violate the "you should never hate that you got another bunch of players join you in dynamic event". Imagine a bunch of clueless people (remember the level of skill in LFR? That's the majority of any MMO player base) joining you for event that "requires you to have a good execution on player's part". Basically, you're going to be fucked, literally and figuratively, and you will hate that they joined you.

    This is one of the main reasons why we argue that events will have to be made easy. If they are not, additional clueless people joining will be cussed at, just like there is a lot of cussing in LFR at clueless people now. Even worse, they will be told to GTFO, in far nastier words, because if they leave, the event will scale back down.
    you're forgetting scaling again.
    If they suck, and by the way it's not the majority of people in LFR, it's a few bad ppl - the majority do actually know what they're doing, they will more than likely die as no one is there to heal them.
    Then it scales back down.
    So...they will not be "made easy" - the hardness will just scale. Why should the starting point be easy? Anet have not said they're making an easy game.
    And the average player is not bad. They're just not hardcore.

  6. #506
    Why must people keep bumping this thread? Should GW2 have raids? 1000 times no, as stated earlier by 100s of other people. Will it? No. As stated by the devs on numerous occasions. There won't be flying mounts either. Or mounts at all. This isn't WoW, people. Accept the fact that GW2 won't be a WoW clone.

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-22 at 01:04 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_ View Post
    Problem with this approach is that it would directly violate the "you should never hate that you got another bunch of players join you in dynamic event". Imagine a bunch of clueless people (remember the level of skill in LFR? That's the majority of any MMO player base) joining you for event that "requires you to have a good execution on player's part". Basically, you're going to be fucked, literally and figuratively, and you will hate that they joined you.

    This is one of the main reasons why we argue that events will have to be made easy. If they are not, additional clueless people joining will be cussed at, just like there is a lot of cussing in LFR at clueless people now. Even worse, they will be told to GTFO, in far nastier words, because if they leave, the event will scale back down.
    Not really. Everyone I come across in GW1 nowadays (which by the way if you've ever seen me post you know that I play that every day and don't play WoW for more than an hour a week at the max) is very good at what they do and knowledgeable. My guess is that the WoW people will not like GW2 and move on back over to WoW or SWTOR or something. Early on yeah there will be a flood of WoW baddies, but give it time and they will filter out.

    *looks back at BF3 launch* yep.. same thing. MW3 kids will play it cause it's shiny and new, but will very quickly head back to familiar ground and let the grown ups have their fun.

  7. #507
    At worst it's a zero sum situation. Bads join a DE, it scales up. Bads die in said DE, it scales down.

    Said it before, but I have a strong sense elite DEs will be more objective orientated rather than mechanics orientated. Esp. as the game matures. Purely speculation on my part, I admit. But seems a sensible solution to a lot open world encounter troubles of games past.

    There was a neat sounding DE where you power up a laser to defeat a boss, but in that encounter space there are several disparate objectives/skirmishes going on at the same time. Perhaps one group is collecting batteries, another is fending off adds or blasting big bad.

    There is also the potential for players to fail- and spawn another set of DEs as a result.When you fail at Soa/Ragnaros/Rellos Zek/Akylois, it's try again or call the raid night.

    Something worth considering, imo.

    Why must people keep bumping this thread? Should GW2 have raids? 1000 times no, as stated earlier by 100s of other people. Will it? No. As stated by the devs on numerous occasions. There won't be flying mounts either. Or mounts at all. This isn't WoW, people. Accept the fact that GW2 won't be a WoW clone.
    What is the point of these kinds of posts? Very poor posting and I wish mods were more aggressive in discouraging such sentiment.

    If the discussion tires you, move on. The thread premise invites us to share our opinions on should/shouldn't the game have raids. There is no "right" answer here or the need to seek an absolute. It's to spark healthy and rigorous discussion.

    We know there won't be instanced raids currently in GW2, but we can still have a good discussion on the concept.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2012-01-22 at 01:13 AM.

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by Mkalafut View Post
    Not really. Everyone I come across in GW1 nowadays (which by the way if you've ever seen me post you know that I play that every day and don't play WoW for more than an hour a week at the max) is very good at what they do and knowledgeable. My guess is that the WoW people will not like GW2 and move on back over to WoW or SWTOR or something. Early on yeah there will be a flood of WoW baddies, but give it time and they will filter out.
    what a bullshit attitude, no it's not only uber pros playing GW1, I know I ran across my fair share of idiots in gw1 and the same will be true for gw2

    hell christ i just now remembered the many many W/Mo in GW mostly played by bad people and the countless iway builds in pvp that made it easy for less skilled people to do well

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    There is also the potential for players to fail- and spawn another set of DEs as a result.When you fail at Soa/Ragnaros/Rellos Zek/Akylois, it's try again or call the raid night.
    Something worth considering, imo..
    the problem with this is that after doing it x times it will simply turn into "ugh i have to collect X things or murder Y amount of things" to do the boss, in a sense it's like trash constantly respawning in a raid instance, or like having to do a quest every time you want to do a raid

  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by Enosh View Post
    the problem with this is that after doing it x times it will simply turn into "ugh i have to collect X things or murder Y amount of things" to do the boss, in a sense it's like trash constantly respawning in a raid instance, or like having to do a quest every time you want to do a raid
    Given enough time, sure. But we don't really know what is in store for us yet! If some of those are very difficult encounters, maybe we won't always see certain DEs often.

  10. #510
    I agree with you Fencers that the largest world DEs will not be epicly hard...because Anet want ppl to experience them and down them. You're likely right in that they will be co-op obective based, and that it's doing those right rather, or at least as well as, the standard mechanics of a big world DE boss that will ultimately lead to whether it's downed or not. Ur laser example illustrates that quite well.
    But who knows rly at this stage.

    I also expect the larger DEs to not be done very often by ppl. It's more of a part of the story rather than a do it x number of times. There's no real reason to do these epic repeatedly ones unless u really enjoy the fight. We also don't know how often they'll happen, they could be part of the ones that happen every month of so.

    Personally, I wish Anet would hurry up and show us some more of the dungeons. That's where they've said the hardest content will be. It's of course really hard to judge just how hard an encounter is just by observing it...but showing the explorables would help in showing ppl that there really is very hard content (in theory ofc lol).

  11. #511
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelbanes View Post

    I also expect the larger DEs to not be done very often by ppl. It's more of a part of the story rather than a do it x number of times. There's no real reason to do these epic repeatedly ones unless u really enjoy the fight. We also don't know how often they'll happen, they could be part of the ones that happen every month of so.
    They probably will be the biggest supplier of Karma, would make sense that the toughest DE gives the most karma. But yes, you do DE's because you like them, not because of some other fake carrot. And that's just fine in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by squirrelbanes
    Personally, I wish Anet would hurry up and show us some more of the dungeons. That's where they've said the hardest content will be. It's of course really hard to judge just how hard an encounter is just by observing it...but showing the explorables would help in showing ppl that there really is very hard content (in theory ofc lol).
    Agreed. Though I'll settle with just about any information right now.

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by Vewen View Post
    They probably will be the biggest supplier of Karma, would make sense that the toughest DE gives the most karma. But yes, you do DE's because you like them, not because of some other fake carrot. And that's just fine in my opinion.
    I meant more that I don't think the bigger ones will be available that often...as in the elite ones. Shatterer etc aren't the highest. In that sense it won't be possible to really farm them...
    Not like it would be an advantage to either really...karma mostly being used for cosmetic things and all.
    That's something I'm actually not too sure about about - I expect we'll get more karma from a dungeon run than a DE...but I don't know excatly how this is broken down. I mean, uv got ur karma from participation, but what content gives more? Does karma from DEs increase as u level?

    Agreed. Though I'll settle with just about any information right now.
    Think there's a big release tomorrow me is excited asura

  13. #513
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelbanes View Post
    Think there's a big release tomorrow me is excited asura
    Let's hope for that -This Asura just got extremely excited

  14. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by roflatorlunde View Post
    Let's hope for that -This Asura just got extremely excited
    It'll be another glorious piece to the puzzle of how we....errr....guide the other races

  15. #515
    Deleted
    I don't know about others. But those major dynamic event bosses are close enough for me.



    About instanced raids; No thanks.

  16. #516
    I am Murloc! Mif's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewote View Post
    I don't know about others. But those major dynamic event bosses are close enough for me.

    Level 15 boss btw.

  17. #517
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    This seems relevant. (Don't think it was posted already, but then I didn't read the whole thread.

    WoodenPotatoes arguing that basing difficult endgame content on 5 man dungeons instead of raids is a good thing:

    Also known as Welcome on the WoW forums.

  18. #518
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by roflatorlunde View Post
    Let's hope for that -This Asura just got extremely excited
    Hope so too. Would be nice to come back from an exhausting exam and be cheered up with new information!

    Quote Originally Posted by MIf
    big picture of badassness
    Beats Hogger in my opinion.

  19. #519
    theres only 1 big question i have about raiding , well its about 5 man dungeons. We do these 5 man dungeons and gearing up but what are we gearing up for ( towards ) it seems to be completly useless to have these 5m dungeons and have no raids to follow up, what are we gearing up towards getting pve gear to do pvp that doesnt make sence lol, imo i think there should be raids in GW2 , they have 5m dungeons and no raids so what is it excatly that we are gearing towards , if its nothing then why add 5m dungeons at all , and as the 5m explorer dungeons they are way to easy
    Last edited by ironphoenix; 2012-10-07 at 07:05 PM.

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by ironphoenix View Post
    theres only 1 big question i have about raiding , well its about 5 man dungeons. We do these 5 man dungeons and gearing up but what are we gearing up for ( towards ) it seems to be completly useless to have these 5m dungeons and have no raids to follow up, what are we gearing up towards getting pve gear to do pvp that doesnt make sence lol, imo i think there should be raids in GW2 , they have 5m dungeons and no raids so what is it excatly that we are gearing towards , if its nothing then why add 5m dungeons at all
    you're gearing up for explorer modes

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