Some questions about Retribution AoE

[Shaiandra]

While I haven't had a problem falling behind on AoE DPS yet, I've just sorta been thinking about Yor'Sahj for some reason and had some questions about maximizing it...

Well, firstly, at how many targets would you use Seal of Righteousness over Seal of Truth? I'm never sure which to use when fighting the three-packs before pulling him. (Still using my single-target rotation, of course.)

Is using WoG with Selfless Healer ever a DPS increase in AoE situations? If we assume an average Templar's Verdict (including Hand of Light) hits for say 60k for example, then for +12% damage for 10 sec to catch up to that, you'd need to do an average of 50k DPS for those 10 seconds... Which might be possible if there are a loooot of adds? Hm. Of course, I might be underestimating TV in that example...

I don't even have Selfless Healer at the moment, and I'm not sure if it's worth going for even if it may be a DPS increase in certain AoE situations. Admittedly the self-cleanse part of Acts of Sacrifice isn't very useful in Dragon Soul, but I kinda like having it..

And then thirdly, with 4T13, what would be the best way to use cooldowns? Pop AW and Zealotry together for the combined damage bonuses, and continue using Divine Storm even though your Zealotry's HP generation is wasted? Or pop both and use CS instead of Divine Storm? Or pop just AW, and do Zealotry later when you're down to very few targets and using CS? Or not pop either until you're using CS?


Thanks for reading!

[Deleted]

From a personal point of view, Seal of Righteousness isn't worth using for 5 or less targets. While it will be a DPS increase from 4 and above (where you start using Divine Storm instead of Crusader Strike) it's not worth it in my opinion, especially as you have to remember you lose 2 GCDs switching seals.

I haven't actually done the Maths going into WoG/Selfless Healer in AoE situations, but what talents would you take the points out of? You should be factoring that in as well as the TV DPS loss into your maths because obviously Selfless Healer/WoG combo would straight up out-rank using TV in an AoE situation. If you're not using your Hands very often in raid situations due to your raid comp or for other reasons, it may well be worth looking into, otherwise I don't think it's worth it.

You raise a good point about the Zealotry/AW usage in an AoE situation with the 4Pc of T13, but I'd say that because to maximise AoE DPS you have to use Divine Storm instead of Crusader Strike you waste the HP generation of Zealotry. Personally I'd probably actually save my CDs for usage in a single target situation (so after the add phase has ended on Yor'Sahj) purely to maximise the usage of Zealotry. I could be wrong and I don't have any maths to make my point any stronger, but seeing as Ret AoE isn't actually that bad and is *fairly* competitive I wouldn't think the using of CDs is necessary.

[Floross]

Considering the encounter the only viable time for cds is when he's not spawning new bloods. That being said I think it would be best to use AW with SoRight+DivStorm to aoe the adds pretty fast ( this is for Dark Blood if you get it ) and once down switch to Truth+CS and use zealotry until the phase is over.

Regarding the trash before hand , it's only 3 targets , and since they don't die too fast it's better to stick to CS and Truth and have selective takedown.

Regarding selfless healer. You're better off using that on a TV or Inq or holding up on the 3 HP if there's a lot of adds up and just DS even though the HP is wasted ( happens when you have a DP proc ), imo.

[PetersenIII]

Considering the encounter the only viable time for cds is when he's not spawning new bloods. That being said I think it would be best to use AW with SoRight+DivStorm to aoe the adds pretty fast ( this is for Dark Blood if you get it ) and once down switch to Truth+CS and use zealotry until the phase is over.

Regarding the trash before hand , it's only 3 targets , and since they don't die too fast it's better to stick to CS and Truth and have selective takedown.

Or, if you get a black ooze, burn Zealotry on the ooze to kill (and finish it up on the boss), then use AW + SoR + DS for mad AoE "deeps" as it were.

[Floross]

Or, if you get a black ooze, burn Zealotry on the ooze to kill (and finish it up on the boss), then use AW + SoR + DS for mad AoE "deeps" as it were.

You could do that but if the ooze dies halfway you might waste time running to the boss. Kinda depends again on how fast the adds die. Either way I suppose if your zealotry comes at ooze spawn it might be better to use it before hand to fit in more CDs in the encounter. In the end using zealotry is personal matter but wings on adds with SoR is a good dps choice.

[Deleted]

Also depends on your setup. We used 2 melee and rest ranged for Yor'Sahj hc, so melee could pretty much stay on boss all the time, except for when aoeing black ads, or burning an orb.

[Liagala]

This may not be the right answer, but I mostly ignore the fact that there are adds. I switch to SoR and use DS instead of CS, but the rest is the same. I keep the boss targetted and use the same abilities I would for single-target (judge, TV, etc). Between DS, the usual HW/Cons that land in my filler spots, and splash from SoR, I'm matching the other dps in damage done to adds. Since I'm still using my normal rotation, changing things up for SH/WoG would be a waste. I delay CDs a few seconds if they come up at the beginning of an add phase - I'll wait until the adds are just about dead, then switch seals and pop wings/Zealotry to beat on the boss. If it's a double-add phase (yellow and black) I'll delay the CDs until after the next batch of oozes.

[Shaiandra]

Thanks for the replies so far. I guess the general consensus so far is to use SoT for 3 targets and ignore Selfless Healer. I've never picked up Selfless Healer, but eh, was just wondering... it's kinda like how Prot uses Inq instead of Shield of the Righteousness in AoE situations, except well, TV hits much harder and SH gives much less of a damage bonus. =p

Seems we have differing answers on the third question, so I'm interested in hearing multiple points of view. I think lately, I've been using both together and wasting Zealotry's HP bonus (by using Divine Storm)... but that's probably mostly since I'm used to hitting my macro that's both AW and Zeal together, rather than really thinking. =p

[Bonkura]

In 10-man and playing with a firemage, demolock and spriest I use DS instead of CS while I keep up my single target rotation and don't switch seals. I'm pretty sure I'd do the same even with less AoE in the group. Tbh I think I'd do the same even in a 25 man group no matter what setup. Not until heroic mode I would start sealswapping and focus mainly on AoE the adds.

My point is that you need a significant amount of DS spams to make it worth switching seals and move your focus away from the main nuke target.

[Pliers]

If there are 4 targets for more than about 10s seconds, I'll swap seals.

On Yor'sahj, I swap when I see 3-4 adds spawning, knowing it'll be 1-2 seconds before I start mashing DS. It is crazy high damage.

[d07RiV]

I switch to righteousness whenever I'm about to DS more than once (yorsahj black ooze, but not madness blood), and try to switch to truth before the stack on the boss expires.
I honestly think that zealotry not applying to DS is more of a bug; with 4pc I'd still use it regardless of whether I'm going to aoe or not, the 18% help get those adds down faster (the enrage isn't a problem for us, but those adds might eat someone if purple is up; I'm still at 3pc for ret so I try to fit zealotry somewhere else). I still come slightly above our other melee in my offspec (fury/ret) since they don't aoe, so I'd say the aoe is a good contribution.