When did people stop enjoying games....

[Dakia]

you dont pay a monthly fee for skyrim, wich is in fact a big difference

Nobody is paying a monthly fee for TOR yet. And the comparison isn't just TOR against Skyrim. BF3 had the same leveling of whining and complaining. It is almost to the point where I don't even visit the Battlelog forums anymore.

[Investigator]

I think people have become a lot more jaded and burnt out on games after years of playing them for thousands of hours. That initial sense of wonder people have when they started playing those games has faded away a long time ago over the years for many.

[Ragnarocket]

People these days just want everything perfect and spotless as soon as it hits shelves. This isn't just a case with gamers though, you can just look at people in general in today's world and see how impatient and entitled people act.

Personally I think it has to do with technology granting us everything we want at our fingertips and the wide accessibility of said technology that grants this behavior. I'm no shrink though so I could be completely off-base here.

I'm personally enjoying the game immensely, I come onto the forums while I'm at work to keep up with news by just checking topics and seeing if anything big is going on or just in general when I'm playing the game to see if anything interesting is being talked about...and because the loading screen for some of the larger planets gives me some time to browse! xD

[fizzbob]

when kids stopped playing outside

[Sephiracle]

1. You're posting on a forum that doesn't require a subscription to post on.
2. This site started as a WoW oriented fan site.

So, it's really not surprising that the biggest and most expensive MMO to challenge that same game is getting a lot of trolls.

[Vrachara]

Sweeping generalisations - because that's the only way to make an argument!

Right, well first off, I don't spend 24/7 at the game either. I go out pretty much every night, take a solo walk pretty much every day and do other stuff, including playing other games. That said, I do have reasons for complaints and I do know they're not gonna be fixed in the foreseeable future.

The kind of "fix" that would sort out the issues I have with the game is pretty much the fix Cataclysm did to vanilla WoW. I have a problem with the worlds themselves, with the way BioWare designed their worlds, seemingly unnecessarily so, to be as linear as possible, with merely an illusion of an open world. This isn't something a few hotfixes can take care of, for a lot of planets, it would be a complete workover, a redesign of the existing areas, as well as adding more to the mix.

A lot of things I'm mostly pissed off for however, are things that could be fixed easily, but that I still don't see coming, because BioWare does not identify them as problems, but as personal developer preferences to the game. For example, a simple fix would be to allow characters to climb slightly steeper edges, it'd open up a lot more of the world, but that world is built like that on purpose, because they want you to have a linear experience, with merely feeling like you're in a big world (much like their other games like Dragon Age, KOTOR, NWN, ME etc. do). Now, don't get me wrong, I love their other games, but this is an MMO and that shit just won't fly here, it goes directly against the principles of an MMO, which is supposed to create a big, free world.

A few more fixes would be opening up starting/capital planets to opposing factions, eliminating sharding altogether (which is actually in line with what they said they'd do before, they said it'd mostly be used for origin planets at launch to curb the server lag, but we still see it on a lot later planets, even with very few people about), turning off some shields, invisible walls, arbitrary exhaustion areas and such. But these are all things that they don't identify as problems, which is exactly why I heavily doubt we'll see a fix for them any time soon.

There's plenty of other issues in the game, but as you said, I don't worry about those. The UI is awful, macros are very much needed, animations have some issues etc. But these are all issues that I know will be sorted at some point and I'm happy to wait. What I'm unhappy about, is seeing them push a linear experience that's very much aimed at the singleplayer crowd on players, because in the end it's no good for anyone, neither the MMOers, nor the singleplayer people whom they're trying to reel in and it's most certainly going to fail to earn them the subscriptions they need to make this MMO last, all three things I very much hope, but am not too optimistic about, they'll succeed at.

[abovebeyond]

It's pretty bad when I come to these forums and all I see are posts about how one thing or another sucks and will make or break the game. I would really like to know what you people do for a life if....
1. You are already level 50 and supposedly done "everything"
2. You think you could craft a better MMO without any bugs
3. You can write 8 different story lines in an already established universe
4. You can stop every criminal that is playing the game

Learn to enjoy what you have people, or you are just going down a road of misery and loneliness.

To those who enjoy this game, good for you, keep up the good feedback. I have yet to find a reason to complain because I know at some point the problem will be fixed. I get to play at least 6 hours a day (winter break), only a level 33 sniper and I go out for walks with my wife every night and go out every weekend with friends.

So take a deep breath, exhale, take a break if needed and stop thinking you are better then the men and women who put a lot of time and effort in this great game.

1. Student @ University, graduating this semester.
2-4. Isn't really on me, its on BioWare to make a game that has long-term viability. They did a great job with story cutscenes and voice acting, but those kind of things are only cool the first time around.

I am unable to enjoy this game because its combat system is so flawed.
I rate this game as an 8+/10 as an RPG, but a 1-2/10 as an MMO.

If you're "enjoying" this game so much because of story cutscenes and rehashed archetype #12351, you're not really gauging the game as an MMO. If BioWare doesn't fix a lot of problems within a month, the game will not last very long.

I didn't "rush" through the game, I completed every quest, did every space battle, and won lots of warzones. Overall, this game is just WoW without the 6 years of polish/evolution. The leveling process is EXTREMELY boring, with no variation in quests (all of them are kill x, loot y, travel to z). The AI's abilities are not very innovative at all, and oftentimes is still very buggy.

I can't believe that the developers didn't have the foresight to track WoW's development and why certain decisions were made..
ie. Trading recently acquired BOP loot amongst party members.
Dual spec talents
Limiting chests to prevent low level / excessive farming

edit:
Many people here are complaining for the wrong reasons, but there are some here that believe that pointing out weak aspects and fixable things is the best way to rescue this game before it goes the way of Aion, Warhammer, or Rift.

If you firmly believe that the released version of the game is flawless, and furthermore if you think that the decision-based cutscenes are revolutionary, you aren't looking at the game objectively or in the long term.

[Glorious Leader]

I am unable to enjoy this game because its combat system is so flawed.
I rate this game as an 8+/10 as an RPG, but a 1-2/10 as an MMO.

wait so the combat is a part of the mmo experience but not the rpg experience?

[abovebeyond]

wait so the combat is a part of the mmo experience but not the rpg experience?

The RPG aspect: the story immersion with a foreign universe is good. You feel involved in the story and your actions somewhat matter. You can play an awful RPG for its story by just clicking or spamming 1-2 abilities until the end. The "single player" parts in a game. (This gets people to sub and level to 50)

The MMO aspect: playing with other people, working together using your abilities in synergy to overcome a normally impossible goal. Combat system needs to be seamless to have flow. PVE/Raiding: the combat lag drops spells, uses cooldowns randomly. No combat log. No target-of-target. No guild bank. No LFG system, with a decentralized location for all toons making it very difficult to get any flashpoints started. Smart camera makes mobile combat intolerable. PVP: no DR on CCs, raid bars dont update properly, unable to see debuffs clearly before effect occurs, interrupts not registering b/c of choppiness of combat. (This part would get people to STAY subbed at Lv50 and keep the game going on)

This was just my experience, just to name a few examples

[gamhacked]

I'm glad you raised this issue, because it had occurred to me in the past.

My only explanation is that these people really find nothing better to do than play video games all day and seem to have been doing this to the point where they can no longer force themselves to stomach another moment of the game, so they complain. A typical example are people who complain about there being no new content for months and ask what they will do, as though taking a break from the game is some sort of painful last resort.

If you ask me, someone who's really having fun in a game really doesn't need a forum to voice their complaint about anything, because they just see these issues as trivial annoyances they can swallow without making a fuss and wasting time. Feel your class is unduly weak? Change your spec, or level an alt. Poorly-designed raids? Don't do them. Can't stand the community? Leave your guild.

I think that, if while playing your game, it starts to feel:

- Tiring;
- Boring;
- Painful;
- Draining;

and you just won't stop playing, it's gone too far. If the sole or at least primary reason you play a game is no longer fun, I say it's gotten the better of you and you've defeated its purpose.

[Othra]

People seem to have nothing else to do with their sorry little lives these days but hate on games and vent their frustrations over an internet forum where they can't be accounted for all the crap they say.

Grow a fuckin beard and a set of balls and if you don't like a game, then don't play it.

[SoCal]

We are raised (mostly) to bitch and complain; greedy by nature. Watch TV, go talk to people, read opinion pieces, etc... rarely are they about "hey Im grateful for all these things" 99% is about ZOMG I should have moar stufs!

[luedieniel]

as for OPs numeric list:

1. Reaching 50 takes roughly 36-48h of playtime (36h by skipping all conversations except the ones in your class storyline), this translates to roughly 8-10½h played per day to achieve lvl 50 yesterday(2012-01-03).
2. Given the same amount of funding and the same amount of people working alongside me, yeah probably.
3. Yes, writing a story itself isn't hard, becomes easier when there are certain points of interest and areas to 'steer' the tale in a certain direction.
4. Criminals should clearly be entitled to play the game aswell! However I'm sure we can figure out some way to actually block speedhacks and similiar stuff from a game.

I'm somehow doubting I'll ever get the chance at trying out to show that 2,3 and 4 is true or not so they're pretty moot don't you think? My point is however that saying "Can you do it better?" is a flawed argument here as games of this size are not developed by just one person.
Even tho I greatly approve of you going out for walks each day, really, good for you!, I don't see how that would have any relevance, reaching 50 was so incredibly fast that there was plenty of time over to do many a thing aside from play*.

Either way I found the story well made and I enjoyed it greatly, I will not be subscribing to the game because I have no real interest in pursuing it as the pvp in its current state is subpar to well, everything and as for pve, well I'd rather just resub to WoW for that.
Definitly worth playing through for the story tho!


* Do note that this asumes that a person is awake for atleast 12h.

[Zik3l]

The double standards also crack me up. SWTOR and other games get ripped for their bugs. Skyrim gets a pass with its bugs as those are seen as hilarious.

If Skyrim was multiplayer, then there would be massive QQ about the bugs. Because it is single player you do not get to grief, or hassle anyone else and as such are found funny.

[nazrakin]

A lot of the complaints are coming from people who really just want the game to succeed.

The vast majority of the negative threads I've seen are of the "I like the game BUT..." variety. Unfortunately, a lot of them are immediately dismissed as trollbait orfolks come up with any excuse they can to diminish the problems with comments like "you shouldn't have rushed to 50" or "this game is about story, if you want pvp to be good, go play something else".

[fizzbob]

people used to play for the challenge and now the majority play to achieve

the challenge gets in the way but they're the core reason to play a game. it's profitable to TRY and cater to both so people do and it fucks us all over

[ElAmigo]

After playing Skyward Sword I was reminded of what gaming was all about and that is having fun, which imo opinion mmo's just aren't anymore (for me that is). WoW ended up just becoming a chore and while min maxing was fun it was still a chore and while I did enjoy the socializing with guild mates it was something I didn't feel like spending 15 dollars a month for anymore.

I was starting to realize all of the console games I'd been missing out on due to WoW being the only game and SS reminded me of what the real reason I played games for when I was a kid. Now, while I was having fun with SWTOR I still knew the end game was just going to become what WoW was and now with school and a job it was once again not something I was willing to pay for monthly and not something I'd have time to get finished in a month.

Games to me are something that should be something you can take your time with which disallows it from becoming a chore and just pure entertainment which is what SS showed me again and is what prompted me to take place during the Steam sale these past two weeks to catch up on all the great single player games I've been missing out on and the fun that I need.

I'm not saying I dislike MMO's, I just wish they would all go to what GW2 is doing so it feels like less of a chore. I wish SWTOR would go along with what GW2 but we all know it's not happening anytime soon so sadly all I'll ever taste of that game is the early access I got into.

[StationaryHawk]

If everyone lived their life accepting everything that came their way with absolutely no criticism, we'd still be in the dark ages.

[Mijolnyr]

Maybe because everyone enjoying the game has little to talk about on forums? Only the people who are crying about something are taking the time to post here. Heck I rarely check the forums during my main play time unless I am waiting for something or just need a quick breather.

There are roughly 400-600 people on these forums at any one time and a portion of them complain about nonsense but even if every person on these forums is complaining that's still only 600 people tops complaining while well over a million people are enjoying the game. I think that's a pretty solid success for BW.

[Nab]

Because we got the trolls that threatened Blizzard that they will move to SWTOR cause " WOW SUCKS" and now we have those idiots threatening to come back to WoW cause " SWTOR SUCKS". Seriously someone take these trolls and throw them into oblivion.