Proper tanking in swtor

[Morae]

Since I'm nearing the max lvl and to progress I have started doing flashpoints with my friends, I have come to notice a problem that I'm not exactly sure how to deal with.

How do you properly tank in swtor? What can I do and what I should not do? I play juggernaut, but I'm not exactly looking for any class guide or anything like that. More like I'm looking for general stuff.

I from wow and first I was thinking of the same methods as in there for tanking. This means, I hit stuff and make sure they all attack me and not my group. Quite soon I noticed this does not work properly in swtor...at least not with juggernaut. This is because often mobs are spread around and they shoot. They will not be often anywhere near tank. If I ran around hitting all a bit, it didn't generate enough threat. Yet, if I didn't agro the mobs they attacked my healer and dps.

Should I ignore the smaller mobs and just pick up the strongest and expect dps to deal with the smaller ones? Ranged tank could probably forget about this problem since they can generate threat on all mobs in their range. A melee tank can't move around fast enough and pick everything since ranged attacks and charge got cooldown.

There are probably some other things too, but this was one that left me feeling I was doing something wrong...and I hate that feeling.

[Khaowdruid]

I've been playing a Darkness Assassin and, although we do have some decent aoe with Dark Charge's Discharge and Wither, I do still have some problem with really spread out mobs. I've pretty much resigned to trying to keep all the heaviest hitting mobs on myself and let the more durable dps take care of the others. Vengeance Juggs and Powertech dps can take a decent amount of damage from Strong mobs. I imagine it'll be much easier in operations with multiple tanks.

[cuervos]

It is only your duty to tank the strong and harder mobs.

Be clear to your dps that you need them to take care of the weakest mobs first as they still hurt so get them down ASAP.

[Khaowdruid]

Tanking feels "weird" in TOR. Especially as a Vanguard. I kinda... hope. This has worked well so far, as leading with Mortar Volley and using Hammer Shot between abilities keeps me nice and topped up, but it doesn't feel as, oh how do I put it, a sure thing (if that makes sense) as Prot Warrior tanking.

Sith Assassin tanking is very Death Knight-like.

---------- Post added 2012-01-05 at 09:20 PM ----------



Question: I'm currently planning to go up the Madness tree to grab Death Field (and its Force cost reducing talent) over continuing to the top of Darkness for Wither. Thoughts?

I really couldn't say, I haven't played around with Madness yet. Although, I think one of the biggest reasons Wither's so nice is it's specifically built to generate large amounts of threat, unlike Death Field.

[Edradour]

Im also playing a Jugg and im kinda suprised that youve got problems now youre nearing max level, my biggest problems were early on when it seemed like every single mob had a knockback/stun so i would jump in be knocked back then stunned then knocked back after running back in etc. dont know what they were thinking/their intention was with that :O

As for the high lvl stuff: you figure out pretty fast which mobs are hitting the hardest ( sometimes it not the gold guys but the silver ones for whatever reason especially mobs with heat beams hit like trucks ) and focus on keeping them on you while letting the dps take care of the other mobs with chain stunning. Beside that theres almost always one point were most of the pack stands together so i mark the one further out for cc and what is left over i constantly hit with the lightsaber throw/taunt if they decide to switch targets.

Also important imo: Who you decide to put your guard on...at the start of a flashpoint/groupq i always put it on the healer because hes most likely to be attacked by unattended mobs and with guard he can just "tank" them ( well you get 50% of his dmg redirected to you so i guess its just an intended part of swtors tanking ) only if theres a dps whos giving me trouble ( wether its him being stupid and aoeing a lot or just being good and dealing to much damage for me to handle )

Overall im pretty happy with my tanking now, i just hit level 50 yesterday so i dont know how it turns out in hardmodes but i dont think it will be much of a difference

[Khaowdruid]

( sometimes it not the gold guys but the silver ones for whatever reason especially mobs with heat beams hit like trucks )

Yeah, you do run across those glass-cannon types that deal shittons of damage, but go down quick.

[Deleted]

Ive been tanking some hardmode flashpoints as jugg. What u need to have in mind is try to utilize all threat gaining abilities u have for each pull and line of sight. As juggs deal alot less dmg as well when compared to assasin, powertech its even more important that stuff go right since u cant just "hit" a mob and regain aggro.

At lvl 50 u get intercede which helps alot.
Its basically use saber throw, unchanneled force choke, force push, backhand on mobs not in pack and focus intercede back if needed to healer and line of sight if its a spread out trash pack. Line of sight works really well and imo is kinda required at alot of pulls at hardmode flashpoints.
Save aoe taunt and aoe fear for when stuff gets out of hand. its not uncommon that theres a hidden mob pack coming in to assist the 1st pack u pulled.
Youre spot on leaving normal tagged mobs to dps. Allways nuke the weakest mobs first.

U really have to work your *** off and plan each pull. "Dungeon" tanking doesnt get any harder than this.

[zorkuus]

Question: I'm currently planning to go up the Madness tree to grab Death Field (and its Force cost reducing talent) over continuing to the top of Darkness for Wither. Thoughts?

It's a no-brainer. Death field hits 3 targets, wither hits 5. Wither puts a -5% damage debuff on the mobs, while death field heals you for a pathetic amount.

[Deleted]

Like others have said already, the trick seems to be to focus on the strongest mobs as a tank. The weaker mobs usually deal roughly the same dmg, yet die very quickly. If you kill those first, the damage intake scales down quickly.

It's usually not a problem at all if the weaker mobs hit the DPS, as long as they die fast. In fact, sometimes it's actually easier if the dmg is spread between the group, since heals are usually fairly small and very expensive if spammed.

So far I like the approach. It seems everyone still has to get used to the idea that 'weaker' mobs are actually highest prio. I was quite surprised myself when I first did Hammer Station and got my ass handed to me the first few pulls as a jugg: jumping in a group and keeping aggro on everything killed me really fast. But as soon as you realize it just requires a slightly different approach (which I've found fairly similar to soloing in fact), it's enjoyable. Just don't try to grab all the mobs, you're not supposed to

[obdigore]

No channel Strangle, LS throw, and Force Push are going to be your big ones for starting, but you only have to concentrate on the ones that will not get burst down quickly, as everyone else is saying.

[kanezfan]

I los a lot. I mean like 90% of the time. los is your friend. tag one, run behind a wall, tell dps not to touch anything until the mobs get to you. ranged won't stay ranged because they can't shoot you when you're hiding behind a pillar or a wall. once i have them all bunched up on me, easy mode.

[FlawlessSoul]

I really hope macros and mouseover functionality is one of the first things put in, alongside target-of-target frames and target-last-target functions (not target previous enemy/friend, just a simple "switch to the last target selected")

They're not just quality of life enhancements for tanks and healers; with the speed at which a mob can switch to one of your team and start lobbing high burst damage abilities (grenades, rockets, rapid fire, AOE damage, slows and incaps) you really need to be able to respond as quickly. Sure, you can click-target, and then perhaps lose aggro on that champ mob that is now shredding your DPS, or miss the interrupt for a carbonite spray that has you incapped while the champ heads to your healer and the mob you were trying to recapture is now gleefully playing whackamole with a DPS.

Does it make it easier? Yes, things like this do. But the difficulty should be handling mobs, not overcoming the interface.

[Remilia]

Playing Juggernaut also. LoS 'can' be helpful 'some' times. The mobs don't streamline to you like they do in other MMOs, instead range tends to walk at a distance around corners (which sucks. D

Mobs are constantly spread out, and what I do is usually wait for cc to start casting, and saberthrow + charge. Range choke a mob a bit 'farther' from you / force scream, and use smash if you have some other one around you. Enrage is your friend.

The small mobs in hardmodes, even though they're small. They can still easily chew through your healer if there's too many. So you should have at least control of a few of em, so taunt / AoE taunts are nice, and same with intercede. You have a massive amount of control with charge stun (if you get it), choke, backhand (bitch slap), charge, interrupts, force push, etc. Are nice. Force push if necessary, you can push mobs together.

Not the easiest thing, and dps should be 'helping' you, not screwing you over, which I get some times. If the DPS can kill small mobs quickly while you control the strong / elite ones, you should be fine. Your AoE threat, even with them bunched up, sucks. So use taunt appropriately.

The knockback, sometimes its better to just get knock back, run back a bit, and just charge right back in, instead of running back to the mob, nice way to gain some extra rage, and stun / immobilize. If you feel like it, intercede an ally, then charge back in is also a way to gain some force if you have em up, and sunder is down. (still takes the same amount of gcd with 2 normal hits).

[FlawlessSoul]

@Remilia, for CC handling, let everyone with a CC pick a "raid mark" (can't remember what they're called in TOR) and have them mark their own mobs. They can then specify any requirements ("Let me CC star first, before combat starts", or "I'll keep purple CC'd, attack it last"). If they let us bind the raid marks to keys, I'd find things easier for sure.

People I've played with generally know what their CCs require (out of combat, for example, or organic mobs instead of droids) and where they're best employed (mobs standing to one side of their group, less likely to be hit by AOE) to a greater degree than the average WoW player at least. Maybe I've just had the luck with groups, but I have run into a few DPS who are the usual jump + spam AOE type.

[gualdhar]

I usually ask my party members to CC targets around the edge or one side of a group, then I'll pull whatever is left over. It'll give you a bit better clustering that way. Or, try to remember which mobs are melee and which are ranged, and cc the ranged first. 9/10 times, the melee types will have swords out, so its fairly easy to tell which are which.

I'm not sure if Jugg has anything like Force Pull, but that makes my life a crapton easier. Otherwise, its simply a matter of running around and dropping Project (Shadow's high-damage move) on anything that looks at someone funny, spamming the hell out of my taunt, and hoping that people are smart enough to go for the mobs I'm attacking.

[Daedelus]

Question: I'm currently planning to go up the Madness tree to grab Death Field (and its Force cost reducing talent) over continuing to the top of Darkness for Wither. Thoughts?

Wither is also causes the target to do 5% less damage, you'd be mad not to take it.

[Deleted]

DPS should always kill the standard mobs first, so you dont need to tank those if you cant.

[herpecin]

ive got a 42 operative healer and ive done every FP leveling at least once. also i tank in WoW on multiple toons and plan on making a tank at some point in TOR.

from what ive seen the tanks job is for the big adds and bosses. even as a healer i can kill a standard mob in 4-5 seconds without taking much damage.

as far as talents go, while i am unfamiliar with the jugg tree itself, i can say that any buff that increase armor/resistance, reduce damage taken, or increase avoidance are very important. but also debuffs that reduce damage done by mobs or reduce chance to hit are also very important.

and while the "tank" stances only give ~50% bonus threat in TOR, the DPS difference between DPS and tanks doesnt seem to be that large right now assuming the tank knows how to manage his resource.

[gualdhar]

and while the "tank" stances only give ~50% bonus threat in TOR, the DPS difference between DPS and tanks doesnt seem to be that large right now assuming the tank knows how to manage his resource.

Tanks also have a lot of high-threat moves in their normal rotations. I'd say, if an equivalently-geared DPS and I were attacking the same target, I'd have about 25-35% more threat than the DPS does (judging from how long it takes a DPS to drag a mob off me). Given half of my rotation has some sort of inherent increased threat generation, I wager my dps is about 70% that of a DPS player. It'll only get bigger as the gear gets better too, since the DPSer will be taking more primary stat-focused gear, and get offensive secondary stats, whereas I'll be focusing on endurance and defensive stuff.

And honestly, as a shadow tank, resource management is the least of my worries.

[obdigore]

Errr, as far as I know at 42 Tanking with a Jugg, we only have one High Threat move, which is on a CD (backhand).

I could be wrong about that but it is the only one I have seen so far.