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  1. #21
    I'd tend to tell them that they are causing undue hardship on your mana/healing capabilities and if they continue pull unnecessary aggro, you will let them die. One death is normally enough for most people. Yeah I know, I have trouble letting people die, even when they are dumb... but it's better than everyone dying. If they start griping about how you let them die, /ignore works wonders. ^_^

    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    For people like that, there's a handy little command you should know:

    /ignore Playername-Servername

    Enter their characters name and server name, and they will be put on ignore, and you will never be put in any other random group with them again.
    I had no idea it prevented you from being grouped with them again! Normally I delete cross server names off my list just to keep it from getting over-crowded. I'll stop doing that! Also, if the server name is two words the slash command doesn't work properly... but you can just right click their name and ignore them that way - works like a charm.
    Last edited by raivyne; 2012-01-15 at 11:03 AM.

  2. #22
    "DPS who pull aggro are bad." "It's a DPS's job not to pull aggro." "Meter whoring is stupid and wrong."

    I find statements like these and the associated attitude to be narrow-minded and unnecessarily restrictive. I'm not going to deny that many (probably most) DPS who go crazy with their buttons and pull aggro and die are the very embodiment of the stereotype. However, the issue is not a true/false boolean, it's more complex than that. If a DPS's job were just "Don't pull aggro" then I would sit quietly afk and watch movies. A DPS's job is better expressed, but not wholly encompassed by, "Do the most meaningful damage as possible without causing more incoming damage." However, it's still not that simple, especially when one assumes a bigger perspective for dungeons: "Make the run as fast as possible." Even a wipe or rezzing a dead DPS does not necessarily indicate the DPS has failed, though for the most part I would say death means someone has failed, and sometimes that failure is on the DPS.

    But like I said, it's a complex issue. If the group outgears the instance, for example, and the healer is just standing around most of the time, maybe the run would go faster if the DPS went harder and stressed the healer a bit. I know that when I heal and I don't have much to do I spend those otherwise wasted globals nuking - it's not much damage but it's damage that wouldn't exist otherwise. But I would gladly spend those globals healing DPSers who pull aggro, knowing that they're contributing more time-saving DPS than I can with my globals. This becomes even more appropriate when the tank is bad and can only hold aggro against crappy DPSers.

    Other involved factors include classes, social atmosphere, individual and group goals, and specific dungeon or fight.

    Again, I don't deny that many (or most) DPS who mash buttons and pull aggro are mouthbreathing cunts and deserve their stereotype and the mountain-weight of social pressure the iceberg tip of which can be seen in this thread. All I'm saying is that the attitude, like all absolutist thinking, is dangerous and may lead to lost opportunities.

    Let me explain where I'm coming from. Back in Wrath I used to love running heroics as a shadowpriest with my mage buddy, because no tank could hold aggro off us and it was very fun to challenge ourselves to do the most DPS possible without actually taking any extra damage via kiting, front nova, dispersion, CC - using the tools Blizz gave us, pretty much. The funnest was when the tank raged and stopped tanking the mobs we pulled, because then things actually went smoother. Runs were different, and more dangerous than the humdrum monotony everybody thinks is right, but many tanks and healers who raged and raged were afterwards shocked to discover we'd cleared a heroic in half the time it usually takes, and no one had actually died. Of course we messed up sometimes and either died or even caused a wipe but we had fun testing what we could get away with. And isn't the goal of having fun in this video game of higher importance than the goal of "do dungeons like everyone else does them"? We weren't malicious, we weren't bratty teenagers. Our behavior was calculated and meticulous, and frankly I find this approach to be the best and most enjoyable; I prefer my gaming experience to be challenging and rewarding, rather than merely a grind. I know it's not for everyone, but I like to think that my playstyle helps others either by just making runs faster for them whether they realize it or not, or if something goes wrong I'm shaking things up for them and making them think and learn and grow.

  3. #23
    Bad players always blame A) the healer B) the tank. Normally it's whoever pipes up and bitches about them being bad.

    I can't tell you how many times I've been randomly kicked because of calling out other players fuck ups. Most of the time my wife is tanking when I get kicked. She always asks why they kicked a good healer, of course this baits the jackass who initiated the kick to start shit talking, not realizing that we are in the same guild. Of course she'll call them out for being a bad player (it's always the bad player, ever single time) which of course starts an argument. Then she refuses to pull anything and refuses to leave the group, which forces one of the other douche bags who blindly agreed to kicking me, into triggering their vote to kick CD. It's really fun when everyone's kick is on CD, and she doesn't get kicked

    I have to say, I feel kind of bad for the new healer though.

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-15 at 02:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Annesh View Post
    "DPS who pull aggro are bad." "It's a DPS's job not to pull aggro." "Meter whoring is stupid and wrong."

    I find statements like these and the associated attitude to be narrow-minded and unnecessarily restrictive. I'm not going to deny that many (probably most) DPS who go crazy with their buttons and pull aggro and die are the very embodiment of the stereotype. However, the issue is not a true/false boolean, it's more complex than that. If a DPS's job were just "Don't pull aggro" then I would sit quietly afk and watch movies. A DPS's job is better expressed, but not wholly encompassed by, "Do the most meaningful damage as possible without causing more incoming damage." However, it's still not that simple, especially when one assumes a bigger perspective for dungeons: "Make the run as fast as possible." Even a wipe or rezzing a dead DPS does not necessarily indicate the DPS has failed, though for the most part I would say death means someone has failed, and sometimes that failure is on the DPS.

    But like I said, it's a complex issue. If the group outgears the instance, for example, and the healer is just standing around most of the time, maybe the run would go faster if the DPS went harder and stressed the healer a bit. I know that when I heal and I don't have much to do I spend those otherwise wasted globals nuking - it's not much damage but it's damage that wouldn't exist otherwise. But I would gladly spend those globals healing DPSers who pull aggro, knowing that they're contributing more time-saving DPS than I can with my globals. This becomes even more appropriate when the tank is bad and can only hold aggro against crappy DPSers.

    Other involved factors include classes, social atmosphere, individual and group goals, and specific dungeon or fight.

    Again, I don't deny that many (or most) DPS who mash buttons and pull aggro are mouthbreathing cunts and deserve their stereotype and the mountain-weight of social pressure the iceberg tip of which can be seen in this thread. All I'm saying is that the attitude, like all absolutist thinking, is dangerous and may lead to lost opportunities.

    Let me explain where I'm coming from. Back in Wrath I used to love running heroics as a shadowpriest with my mage buddy, because no tank could hold aggro off us and it was very fun to challenge ourselves to do the most DPS possible without actually taking any extra damage via kiting, front nova, dispersion, CC - using the tools Blizz gave us, pretty much. The funnest was when the tank raged and stopped tanking the mobs we pulled, because then things actually went smoother. Runs were different, and more dangerous than the humdrum monotony everybody thinks is right, but many tanks and healers who raged and raged were afterwards shocked to discover we'd cleared a heroic in half the time it usually takes, and no one had actually died. Of course we messed up sometimes and either died or even caused a wipe but we had fun testing what we could get away with. And isn't the goal of having fun in this video game of higher importance than the goal of "do dungeons like everyone else does them"? We weren't malicious, we weren't bratty teenagers. Our behavior was calculated and meticulous, and frankly I find this approach to be the best and most enjoyable; I prefer my gaming experience to be challenging and rewarding, rather than merely a grind. I know it's not for everyone, but I like to think that my playstyle helps others either by just making runs faster for them whether they realize it or not, or if something goes wrong I'm shaking things up for them and making them think and learn and grow.
    I believe the gripe is generally with DPS who continually unload on the wrong target, or unload before the tank has established threat on all the mobs.

    My motto is if you spank it, you tank it. Meaning, if you willfully pull off the tank, be prepared to either tank it, IE defensive CDs, stuns, aggro dumps, whatever you need to do to keep yourself alive.

    However, if the tank is being an elitist and 'teaching you a lesson" and doesn't try to pull it off you, be prepared that it's going to book right to the healer when you dump your aggro.

    Tanks generally don't have an aggro problem, so you have to be doing some badass DPS or beating on the wrong target.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by scandore8472 View Post
    My motto is if you spank it, you tank it. Meaning, if you willfully pull off the tank, be prepared to either tank it, IE defensive CDs, stuns, aggro dumps, whatever you need to do to keep yourself alive.

    Tanks generally don't have an aggro problem, so you have to be doing some badass DPS or beating on the wrong target.
    "Generally"? Tanks have do so much threat now, and have so many instant cast, RANGED taunts that there is *never* any excuse for not holding aggro on a mob, unless it's a DK with all his runes on cooldown unable to hold threat if a whole pack of new adds were pulled.

    Seriously, if a tank loses aggro on anyone today - *ever* - it's *always* the tank's fault. The only exception is if the DPS are actually the ones to pull the mobs. All other cases, it is always the tank's fault. I play a warrior/paladin/DK tank, and this is true for all of them.

    Any tank who complains about DPS pulling off him is absolutely horrible at playing his class and spec. Absolutely, absolutely horrible. Just terrible. There's no question of this. It's hard to put into words how bad they are at their class. Tanking hasn't approached anything even remotely difficult since TBC, and with the recent, incredibly huge buffs to all tanks' threat it's so easy you can seriously hold threat on several different mobs being single-targeted down by 3 different DPS, just by spamming you class' version of an AoE attack.

    To lose threat as a tank today you have to be doing basically nothing at all.

    I can't even comprehend how anyone could say otherwise.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    Actually, DPSing is harder than Tanking if you want to do it 'perfectly' (maybe apart from a Blood Death Knight). But I get what you're saying.
    There is no way this is true, conceding the fact that what is hard is very subjective, but the responsibility of a tank and the non black and white nature of tanking make it far more difficult than the role of DPS. One of the best quotes I ever read about WoW was, "Tanking is skill, DPS is science and healing is art", that is all too true. While I'm not going to sit here and say that DPS is simple, the fact is the only difficulty comes from executing the theory. You can quantify how to DPS to your max ability and then strive to hit that mark.

    You don't get that luxury with tanking, tanking isn't about using every GCD effectively, it's about positioning, it's about reacting to events, it's about helping both the DPS and the healers fulfill their roles, it's about manging their cooldowns, sometimes in completly different ways from attempt to attempt on the same encounter. In general if a tank makes a mistake, you wipe. If a DPS makes a mistake its not all that uncommon to simply continue on without really noticing it, or the other DPS make up for the mistake (or death).

  6. #26
    You will find these players time and time again. I normally just ignore healing them and if they keep pulling i generally shoot a message to the tank telling him not to pick them up.

  7. #27
    I've had dungeons where i was pretty much oom after respeccing. I dont have a super fast laptop and thus rather long loading screens
    And yes i took the blame.
    As a tank ive seen (example) Warriors pull recklessness and bladestorm the moment i Avenger shield something. Even with 500% threat i can lose aggro then (can, wont happen always) and again take the blame...
    People in general dont make mistakes, they play perfect and obviously always someone else to blame... sad but true..
    If i have one of those runs when i have a good healer or tank in general i wisper them 2-3 times during the dungeon. Good job or gimme a sec to get mana after this etc
    If the dps goes out of bounds the tank/healer knows and you have 2 votes allready

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