Mages

[Nalydyn]

Ok, don't bring your biases here guys. I don't wanna here qq, I want an honest discussion of reasons why mages should not be nerfed. The most CC in the game, of any class. They can blink out of stuns, and can ice block if anything gets dicey. They have multiple shields to absorb damage, and have as much or more damage than every other class. Frost having burst, and fire having insane sustained damage with dots and the ability to freecast scorch while running. Arcane... Isn't really a pvp spec. They have stupid damage but not as many outs as other specs. Discuss why they should or should not be nerfed, and give valid reasons and logic.

[Deleted]

Maybe its to make it easier to pick a class. Both rogues and mages have been among the best classes both in PvP and PvE in almost every patch. Jokes aside though, I can't give you a good answer, cause I have no clue why it has to be this way.

[Potatox]

I dont really believe they should be nerfed.

Mainly cause the game is balanced around 3v3 (pvp wise) and mages are one of the top classes, not THE top class (there are many other 'op classes'). Also hitting a mage does more damage than hitting a clothie like a lock or shadow priest (who have talents/abilities reducing damage) so I guess the moves are compensation. While watching higher rated arena videos it seems to be swaps to the mage after blinks and ice blocks which inidcates they are easier to shut down than casters who dont have these abilities. (much similar to killing a dk with no ibf+trinket as opposed to other melee)

Just my opinion.

[Deleted]

the only thing i feel they were unrightly buffed in regards to was armour value. back at the start of cataclysm or end of wrath they buffed all cloth armour values as well as leatehr and mail. they did not buff plate. it basicaly said " all non-plate classes are now 2x beter against melle dps than they used to be. it lowered the risk of melle damg being fatal for cloth by a massive margin which was wrong in my view.

[Derpyhooves]

Ok, don't bring your biases here guys. I don't wanna here qq, I want an honest discussion of reasons why mages should not be nerfed. The most CC in the game, of any class. They can blink out of stuns, and can ice block if anything gets dicey. They have multiple shields to absorb damage, and have as much or more damage than every other class. Frost having burst, and fire having insane sustained damage with dots and the ability to freecast scorch while running. Arcane... Isn't really a pvp spec. They have stupid damage but not as many outs as other specs. Discuss why they should or should not be nerfed, and give valid reasons and logic.

Ok, don't bring your biases here guys. I don't wanna here qq, I want an honest discussion of reasons why rogues should not be nerfed. The most CC in the game, of any class. They can cloak out of cc, and can vanish if anything gets dicey. They have self healing to recover from damage, and have as much or more damage than every other class.

[Itisamuh]

Blizzard has made it pretty clear that with Cataclysm and onward, they aren't balancing around arena anymore. It's been said multiple times. That said, frost mages are very overpowered in a Battleground setting and I have no idea why they don't get nerfed. Either their damage or control needs toned down, one or the other. Having the best of both worlds is ridiculous. I think the amount of passive slows and freezes they have is my biggest gripe. At least in Burning Crusade and Wrath, frost took a pretty high level of skill to dominate with.

However, I still believe the efficiency of healers is the biggest thing that needs a nerf, if anything. Their healing is fine, but they have too many instant casts and are too mana efficient. Mages would come after healers, for me, and after that would be ferals. Hunters and warriors could use a buff, warlock damage could use a buff (single target; nerf multi target damage or control to compensate) and tanks getting nerfed is a good thing. Other than that I think balance is pretty decent, at least when talking about a classes' mainly used spec.

[Deleted]

The only nerf mages needs is the removal of spellsteal.

[Prostyle]

All Mage roots need to be on the same DR, period. Also, there is no reason for Ring of Frost or Ice Block to be on Cold Snap. The same needs to be done for Smoke Bomb and Dismantle (Glyph of Preparation). I would also argue that Counterspell should not be able to blanket silence for as long as it does, since it takes 0 skill to apply.

Mages do not need roots on different DRs when they have Deep Freeze and can Blink so often (out of stuns even), and abilities like Ice Block / Ring of Frost / Smokebomb are way too powerful to warrant a CD reset... it's dumb.

[Deleted]

Mages get 15% phys-damage reduction from frost armor. Just like boomkins.

Mage Mastery and Ice Lance damage are retarded.

[Feranor]

I guess Stanton will just close the thread with the usual empty phrase of "post constructively" or "don't just complain".

In any case, there are some things that definitely have to get addressed:

- All of their Roots and Stuns need to be on the same DR. Fear + Seduce combo was nerfed ages ago, and they're not even the same type of CC.

- They shouldn't be able to win just by spamming unavoidable instant casts. Put a cooldown on Skill Lance. The fact that all of their Roots are both instant cast and AoE is also ridiculous.

- They shouldn't be able to negate so much CC at a single press of a button with little to no consequences. E.g. Blink removing Stuns, Skillsnap, Skillblock removing all Debuffs etc.

- They get more and more CC with every expansion. Remember when Mages actually had to control their targets somewhat thoughtfully in order to kill them? Yeah, that was in Vanilla. And they were among the strongest classes then, too. Since then they got Skill Elemental, Deep Skill, Ring of Skill, Skill Lance, Skillsteal, Skillvisibility etc. pp. whereas other classes got maybe one or two new toys (while their old ones were constantly being nerfhammered).

They quite simply shouldn't have the best CC, the best mobility/CC counters, ridiculous, unavoidable and low-requirement damage and strong defense. The only thing they can't do best is healing. It's the definition of overpowered.

(And no, the game is not balanced around 3v3)

[Lafua]

I guess Stanton will just close the thread with the usual empty phrase of "post constructively" or "don't just complain".

In any case, there are some things that definitely have to get addressed:

- All of their Roots and Stuns need to be on the same DR. Fear + Seduce combo was nerfed ages ago, and they're not even the same type of CC.

- They shouldn't be able to win just by spamming unavoidable instant casts. Put a cooldown on Skill Lance. The fact that all of their Roots are both instant cast and AoE is also ridiculous.

- They shouldn't be able to negate so much CC at a single press of a button with little to no consequences. E.g. Blink removing Stuns, Skillsnap, Skillblock removing all Debuffs etc.

- They get more and more CC with every expansion. Remember when Mages actually had to control their targets somewhat thoughtfully in order to kill them? Yeah, that was in Vanilla. And they were among the strongest classes then, too. Since then they got Skill Elemental, Deep Skill, Ring of Skill, Skill Lance, Skillsteal, Skillvisibility etc. pp. whereas other classes got maybe one or two new toys (while their old ones were constantly being nerfhammered).

They quite simply shouldn't have the best CC, the best mobility/CC counters, ridiculous, unavoidable and low-requirement damage and strong defense. The only thing they can't do best is healing. It's the definition of overpowered.

(And no, the game is not balanced around 3v3)

I absolutely love your use of 'skill' here. [:

I also completely agree with everything, except the ice lance cd. If they were to put DR on all their snares (or just remove how many they actually get), there really wouldn't be a need for that. Ice lance does NO damage if they're not frozen... but as it is right now, against a frost mage you're ALWAYS frozen.

[Prostyle]

but as it is right now, against a frost mage you're ALWAYS frozen.

And even if you are not, Fingers of Skill makes their abilities hit you like you are...

[Flaks]

All Mage roots need to be on the same DR, period. Also, there is no reason for Ring of Frost or Ice Block to be on Cold Snap. The same needs to be done for Smoke Bomb and Dismantle (Glyph of Preparation). I would also argue that Counterspell should not be able to blanket silence for as long as it does, since it takes 0 skill to apply.

Mages do not need roots on different DRs when they have Deep Freeze and can Blink so often (out of stuns even), and abilities like Ice Block / Ring of Frost / Smokebomb are way too powerful to warrant a CD reset... it's dumb.

I agree with the prep and cold snap changes.

I don't agree with the dr's on roots. As a warrior, I hate them with a passion but understand that the spec NEEDS it to do well in PvP. Mages do NOT NEED cold snap to do well in PvP. Cold snap and Preperation are what make mages and rogues overpowered. I understand that rogues are a cooldown dependent class but they don't need resets on abilities that are already game breaking.
Roots can be hit with a nerf when the dispel system is overhauled. Until then, they need to stay like they are.

[Serurian]

As others have said, they need a DR on all snares that shares DR.

They removed shapeshift as a means to get out of most forms of CC for druids and other than the druids that were delusional all were happy. It didn't wreck the druid class as many over reactors claimed it would. It won't ruin frost mages to not have the best CC / Mobility.

[Matutin]

I started pvping on my mage a few weeks ago. I would like to know how many of the people involved on this thread does have a frost mage.
First to all, we do have 3 shields (mana+frost/fire/arc+frost ward), but those things break easily. I've like 3.3k resi on my mage (not too much, not too low), and sometimes i get hit like a truck regardless of any.

Second, Ice Lance is not overpowered and does not need a CD. The main source of dmg is if a target is frozen. Deep Freeze have a 30 secs cd, so during the 5 secs of it we need to push as much as dmg as we can, except for a few FoF procs (regardless of auto procs or pet nova ones) on novaed' targets that breaks after the first lance. After the first nova (or second) we wont have enough time to cast a Frostbolt (or frostfire, but risky as hell). So, idk, I may not be as experienced as other guys, but is not easy to kill some times (pray for the gods if you have nova + pet nova on cd).

Btw, to use nova or cone of cold we need to be on melee range. Last time i checked Fear had a 30 yd range.



And the last thing, arc is not too bad for pvp, in fact its really cool on av, when you turtle neck (or whatever is called) the other team.

[Deleted]

One important thing people forget in this thread is how ridicoules counterspell (and spell lock) is.
24 second cooldown is just way, way too low for such a powerful spell, especially when it comes with a 4 second blanket silence. It's pretty lame that the class that offers the strongest melee control and has some of the best spamable CC also has the ability to lock down casters for such a long duration every 24 second unless the opponent completely outplay you by fake casting.
Then again, counterspell comes with a 4 second blanket, into a 5 second freeze, into an 8 second polymorph, into a 4 second polymorph. By then counterspell is almost ready again, and you'll have to go back to fake casting unless you want to face utter destruction.

[Deleted]

And the last thing, arc is not too bad for pvp, in fact its really cool on av, when you turtle neck (or whatever is called) the other team.

Alterac Valley is hardly classed as PvP at all, let alone serious PvP. Arcane is bad in PvP.

[Stanton Biston]

I guess Stanton will just close the thread with the usual empty phrase of "post constructively" or "don't just complain".

Oh no, I'm only going off of reports now.

People want to fill the PvP forum with useless garbage and pointless whining, more power to them.

[Deleted]

(And no, the game is not balanced around 3v3)

Not sure if serious... Sure, occasionally they'll change things to tweak 1v1 or 2v2, but only if it has minimal/no impact on 3v3, for example, the Vengeance nerf.

[ruggleee]

And even if you are not, Fingers of Skill makes their abilities hit you like you are...

i LOLOL hard on this one