Turning off the "5% buff" is not an option...

[PetersenIII]

Excuse me? Server firsts dont matter? Really? So why are they there?

More servers then not have not downed Deathwing on Heroic... heck I'm sure there are a few servers who don't even have normal Deathwing yet..

Yes, we are still competing, just not in "international" eyes anymore..

Does a tournament in your local city in football matter, or just the NFL? They both matter to the players who are playing at that level... move on please.

Server firsts are *so* WotLK. Grats on your title-less FoS achievement no one except you cares about.

Neither of them matter because football is stupid. But yes. Professional Tennis is all that matters, I don't really give a crap about any of the nobodys locally because I *know* Djokovic could kick their ass in straight sets. They are fully irrelevant.

[Nosonia]

Being US 200 and killing it without the buff will be worth more to me than being US 10 killing it with a 30% buff. It is optional, it's just stuck up special snowflakes who think it's not.

No it will not... Server firsts are server firsts, regardless of how you get it.

The only person who cares about your months behind guild is the members.

Turn off the buff, and your 10/25 raiders can feel the pride of beating it without, because in the end, no one else gives a shit about you clearing something months late.

Thats why when guilds get server firsts much after the fact (which we're still not really at that point.. only 2 months in about) they get spammed by their server saying grats??

It does matter... please show me that you're a raider with some WOL parses or an armory link, wowprogress, something.... again, I'm willing to bet you don't do much outside of LFR.

[Deleted]

Nothing in WoW matters, it will not affect your rl in any way, shape or form if you get server firsts.

It seems you are suffering a multiple personality disorder, one playing wow, and the other one doing everything else.

[Yunru]

Should be lfr only

[Sanctioned]

It's an option in the same sense as raiding without any gear equipped is an option.

Except one is actually an option, turning off the buff, and one isn't, raiding without gear. Sorry I had to spell it out but it really seems that logic fails on you so you needed the help.

[abndrew82]

Thats not true at all. While yes US 150 is big to alot, knowing that they did it with a buff is a different level to me, all I see the nerf doing is adding a difficulty level, you can track who did it with and without buff first.

I dont raid alot but used to do the whole realm battle and really dont see the nerf meaning anything, if a big guild is so worried about being beat by someone who downs a boss with a buff then they have other things to worry about, their goal should be to be better than that guild even without the buff.

[pzijderv]

Excuse me? Server firsts dont matter? Really? So why are they there?

More servers then not have not downed Deathwing on Heroic... heck I'm sure there are a few servers who don't even have normal Deathwing yet..

Yes, we are still competing, just not in "international" eyes anymore..

Does a tournament in your local city in football matter, or just the NFL? They both matter to the players who are playing at that level... move on please.

i used to be in a strict 10 man raiding guild. this meant that u couldnt use gear from 25 man raids, this made the content in wotlk alot harder. for these guilds there was also a strict 10 man progression. so the strict guilds were only competing versus other strict guilds. i could see the same thing happening here, where guilds choose to not use the buff compete vs other guilds that dont use the buff.

That gives the same amount of acomplishment (if not more)?

[MKing]

Because doing the raid with your friends and defeating a boss is less important than getting a meaningless rank number?

Sigh.. i really feel sorry for all the people on the hardcore train still, i got off it before 4.2, and most of the hardcore guilds I'v been on have been emo and they don't talk unless they are raiding on vent, its depressing, people treat it like its their life, just have fun with your friends seriously.

[Hanto]

It's entirely viable for HM raiding. It helps the guilds having an issue with their current HM raid get over that hurdle while it may help the further progressed HM guilds get over theirs. You can still be competitive if that's your flavor. If you crave a challenge, just shut the damned thing off.

THIS.
BUFF.
HELPS.
EVERYONE.

If someone on Yor'Sahj couldn't get him down without the buff but can squeeze by with it, chances are they are going to still hit a brick wall when it comes to the next boss. While if you're stuck on HC-Spine and are able to down it with the buff---- guess what? You AND the "casual" players BOTH benefited from it. Everybody wins. We can stop debating about the buff ruining the competitiveness of downing the raid.

[Thetruth1400]

It is still an option. Just because you choose to try and be the server first or pride your own personal worth on the basis of what the rest of your server does, doesn't make it less of an option.

If people want to down it without the buff, they will, no matter what position it puts them in. Once people get over the notion of the importance of what other guilds do, and more importantly their own inflated self worth in the grand scheme of things, they'll be able to get back to playing the game for the reason they do, fun. Every other guild in existence should mean absolutely zero in terms of your fun and progression. If you're the last guild to finish content without a buff, so be it, you still accomplished what you set out to do.

[Ariss]

Turning the buff off is silly, it's like equipping gear from previous tier - maybe you can progress using it, but why not to wear new one if you can and everyone else does so aswell.

About incoming DS nerf - I think it's a bit too early, if they want to give players more chances to kill bosses on hc - I'm fine with it. But I think they should wait for this change 2-3 months more.

[WskyDK]

No they will not... find me 1 serious raiding guild who will do that.... the truth is, you aren't a raider, that's why you don't understand.

Sure thing, give me a minute to poll every guild and I'll find em for ya.
Your attempts at discrediting people as "non-raiders" is laughable at best.

The situation is like a marathon, currently you're running 26 miles on flat terrain (which you're not completing) , next month an optional 5% downgrade course will be added alongside the original one, and you can use either. Both are 26 miles, but one is a little easier. The choice is yours as to which one you want to run, if you're looking to complete a marathon the 5% course will be perfect for you! If you're looking for a full challenge to compare yourself to other world class runners, the original in modified course is available to you (to attempt to finish)

[Napoles]

Nosonia is right, there's plenty of people who are still competing within their own server. And I completely agree with him, no one will toggle off this nerf. In order for one to remain competitive we have to adapt to new tools. If they're not against the "rules" then you bet your ass everyone will use them.

We still have regional and state tournaments correct? Even though only the National tournament "matters" according to many of you...

[Mad_Murdock]

No they will not... find me 1 serious raiding guild who will do that.... the truth is, you aren't a raider, that's why you don't understand.

Hate to break it to you, but by your standards, 90+% of wow's population isn't a real raider and that is who Blizzard is interested in. Server first and such ranking is what the top guilds use to attact top players, but that's still less than 10% of the population. Your worried about 1-2 other guilds on your server, maybe 50-100 other guilds in your region and blizzard is worried about the other 809,928 guilds out there.

To paraphrase your statement "You aren't the one Blizzard is doing this for, so you don't understand"

[apinksquash]

If you want to 'compete' for whatever loser spot you are, then do that.

Nice way to be an asshole man...

Now to the point. The OP is right.
My guild raids DS for 6-12 hours a week and took two weeks off for the holidays. Even with our lax schedule we are currently sitting at first place on our server. Just because we don't raid for 6-18 hours A DAY like the top guilds do to earn their world first rankings doesn't mean we are 'losers' or don't care about our final ranking or being top on our server. We do care, and that's the main reason we play. Unfortunately, as mentioned by the OP, even though we are happy with the current difficulty of HM raiding and haven't hit any walls, we will not be able to turn this buff off if we want to keep competing on a level playing field for our server and world ranking.

TLDR; We like the current difficulty of HM raiding in DS, but won't be able to turn off the buff if we want to still compete for our server and world rankings.

[Adramalech]

It IS an option. You CAN turn it off if you wish to experience the encounters in their original, hardest form.

That you refuse to do so and consider it not an option that only ignorant non-raiders, as you so delicately put it, will claim "turn it off!!" is your own issue. Just like Icecrown, you have the option to disable the buff and progress whatever way you want. In the end, it's still a game, and your accomplishments are whatever YOU make of them, not the general population.

[Kavoo]

So, were like stuck in Ultraxion, got him down to 10% everytime, but he just overpowers our healers... we raid only like 10h/week (most of my team works fulltime/go to college), have 0 legendaries (had 3 casters quitting the game in a row) and seeing 1 week worth raiding gone because of a few seconds in each try is really frustrating... I for one am taking everything I can use to down the remainig bosses, and could care less if the elitists bitches will say were not "real raiders".

[Sanctioned]

No they will not... find me 1 serious raiding guild who will do that.... the truth is, you aren't a raider, that's why you don't understand.

You're right. Real raiders won't be shutting off the buff because they just want to get their farm content over with. As in they already have the bosses down. Stop trying to discredit people as not raiders just because you're trying to justify why you and your guild just wasn't good enough to get it down before it was nerfed. Just deal with it, and get better for the next tier.

[Deleted]

Believing people will turn this off is like believing some Hunter (class chosen randomly) will nerf himself (by not enchanting his gear for example) because he just receives a buff in a patch/hotfix and want to be like the other hunters were before the patch.
(This is not a buff/nerf hunters post, I'm just trying to make a weird comparison)

[Deleted]

if you want to be on an high rank, use the buff.
If you want to kill the boss as he was designed, disable the buff.

You cant have everything in life, you know.