Turning off the "5% buff" is not an option...

[Pandragon]

The race is still on, many servers haven't done it yet, and are still pushing their very best to do so...

If they still haven't gotten it, then their best isn't good enough.

Kill the bosses with the buff, or kill the bosses without the buff. Only the 10 or 25 raiders who do it will know. No one else will know if you did it with the buff or without, so it doesn't really matter.

Buff or not, those who suck will still suck. At the 35% ICC buff, there were still guilds on my server who couldn't get past Blood wing, let alone down Lich King, hell there are 85's who still can't kill him. lol

Killing bosses without the buff is just self gratification since your ach doesn't change if you use it or not. I dislike the debuff myself, but my raid group is having issues with attendance from IRL emergencies with raid members, I'd rather be able to kill bosses and get heroic gear then being stuck on heroic Morchok for Thrall knows how long until the core members in my group can get back on regularly.

The race to downing DS is over. World first has been taken, continent first as well. All that's left is all the realm firsts which is just people grasping at straws(no my realm first hasn't been taken yet).

I'm a tank for my group. A month from now I'd rather have over 200k hp and heroic gear with the buff then the knowledge im only 2/8 heroic and trying to convince ppl I did it without the buff.

[Blackmist]

If tonight, they patched the game to buff your class by 5%, would you take it?

How about if they buffed all classes?

Face it, 5% isn't much. If that was the difference between you progressing and not then you're going to progress. If it was more than that, then you'll be 5% closer. If you killed it already, you can look down on all the other baddies and scrubs in guilds who will get to 6/8H just before MoP hits.

There's no race now. No advantage to collecting ilvl 416 weapons for everyone in the guild. Gear resets in MoP. It matters not a jot. You still play better. You'll still beat them in MoP to whatever heroic boss they have then. You'll no doubt still complain when that gets nerfed as well.

[Napoles]

make it a poll, I also believe it will be an option which most of wow's population will never use beside the griefing/trolling in pugs and shit.

[Kenai]

No it will not... Server firsts are server firsts, regardless of how you get it.



Thats why when guilds get server firsts much after the fact (which we're still not really at that point.. only 2 months in about) they get spammed by their server saying grats??

It does matter... please show me that you're a raider with some WOL parses or an armory link, wowprogress, something.... again, I'm willing to bet you don't do much outside of LFR.

If no one actually cares that you take the buff and will still grats you, then take it, because you REALLY SHOULDN'T CARE because everyone will treat it just the same, and you clearly aren't downing the content without it before someone else does with it (because lol at 5%).

If everyone cares that you didn't take the buff then SS the lack of it at your kill and take your props. Seriously, they are gratsing your to be nice on a job well done if you happen to down it, but don't take it for too much more than that.

If you are a "real raider" like you claim to be then you are raiding for entirely the wrong reasons, and your logic is twisted a bit anyway. It's basically "I only care about the opinion of people who agree with me", because I consider myself a casual who is is managing to down Heroics at a steady clip (not at Heroic Spine yet I admit but I will probably be there before this goes live, and I am probably never going to reveal my main toon on this board so don't ask), and I consider your posts to be nothing but self-entitled whining. "How dare Blizzard not put the game on hold to satify MY server's mediocre attempts at progression?!?! FU Blizzard!"

[Orange Joe]

The race is still on, many servers haven't done it yet, and are still pushing their very best to do so...

EVERY SINGLE TYPE OF RACE has a cut-off point. This means sadly if you finish after this time, (these might be hard words for some) YOU SUCK, the race is over and you lost. Get over it.

[Gray_Matter]

Anyone who plays WoW to raid understands why you simply cannot turn off the 5% buff.

Yesterday a friend from an old server I played on messaged me screaming "WE KILLED YOR'SAHJ US 150!!" or something like that...

See, now to MMO, US 150th is nothing, who cares right? WRONG. US 150 for people who only raid 12-16 hours a week is a very big deal.. and continuing to try to improve that is an even bigger deal.

So, when 5% comes out, if this guild decides not to use it, they will drop to US 200, or US 250 lets say... so in this race (which only ends when the xpac ends), we have NO choice but to use the 5% buff to stay competitive.

Another thing is many servers dont have a server first deathwing yet... this is still up for grabs, and extremely important to many people. This 5% buff will make the difference in who gets it first.. you think the guild who is _ALMOST_ there is going to ignore it because it's the right thing to do?

Anyone who says "just turn off the buff" is ignorant and not a real raider (EDIT: In my opinion :P). Just because it doesn't matter to you, doesn't mean it doesn't matter to others. So the next time you say "Just turn the buff off", think to yourself "who am i kidding??" The race is still on, many servers haven't done it yet, and are still pushing their very best to do so...

Then switch it on, kill DW and then switch it back off so you can struggle your way through.

[nimryas]

These freaking world races are fueled by site's like wowprogress.com and such, it'snot the game's intend to create a competitive atmosphere between pve orientated guilds.... So don't beg @ blizz for changes regarding to the 'pve race' or whatever you want to call it..

[Deleted]

Find it funny people saying: kill a boss with buff and you suck.
Have any of you done spine heroic on 25man? That fight is only possible with the worst amount of class stacking ever witnessed.
The fight is ONLY possible, when you stack a fuck ton of mages and rogues. Yeah, sure we must suck because we dont have 5 mages and 5 rogues sorry.....

Or become asian and do it like stars. (stack shamans and mages )

[jries]

Not to be a dick, but killing something fast in WoW has no meaning outside of WoW. (Unless you're in the top 10 in the world, which you aren't ) If you want it to stay the same difficulty, turn off the 5%, simple as that.

[Deleted]

I hope its not against forum rules but i cannot rewrite my opinion on why turning off the buff is not a real option, as many other "options" that blizzard offered in this expansion are not real options.
Coming from official blizzard forums http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...7240?page=2#34

You chose to ignore that in teams of people the bet is to compromise different needs that people have in order to be in good terms with them.
That is more of a case for more casual guilds like mine.
In such a guild you will find people that want to raid or don't want to raid, or want to raid whenever.
You will find people that want to improve the guild relative rank combared to a previous tier in the server, people that are in for the challenge and the fun it offers and ofc people that are in it mostly for the loot.
In this diversity, if there is no power struggle, people tent to have fun, finding things to do with others.

This button is the "looking for troubles and conflicts" button.

You push it, those that are actively in for progress and for loot are greatly disatisfied.
Those that are in for the challenge are pleased.

You don't push it, those that are in for the challenge are disatisfied but not to the same degree.
You see they re comforted by the fact that "everybody else does it with the buff".

In a casual guild you want harmony above all. But that harmony is preserved by not pushing the button as i explained above.

Now lets go to the hardcore guilds.

Those not able to finish tier are raging when a nerf or a buff like this is announced. The reason is that they wont manage to do it the hard way.
But in those guilds diversity is smaller. People are in, mainly for pure progress. So all will push the button though most will hate the company for implementing the buff just before they manage their final kill (or few final kills).

That is why turning the buff off is a fake choice offered to blow smoke and take people away from the real issues that have to do with the reason of the decision was taken.

And the reason was to cater to the more occasional part of their playerbase, taking for granded that loyal customer that is not pleased with this policy will not stop playing the game.

[apinksquash]

A month from now I'd rather have over 200k hp and heroic gear with the buff then the knowledge im only 2/8 heroic and trying to convince ppl I did it without the buff.

You do realize that any gear earned this tier is utterly useless come next xpac and will be replaced with questing greens right?
My guild raids HMs for the challenge of doing it and the prestige of being top on our server. This buff makes us choose between doing it at the challenge level we like (no buffs) or keeping the playing field even in our bid to stay server first.

Anyone who doesn't understand why a HM guild would be upset over having to choose between keeping the difficulty the same or keeping the competitive playing field even in their bid for realm ranking, is just being ignorant or blatantly trolling.

[Joben]

But it's all irrelevant, you don't get a trophy that says "#150". Why does it matter what the people outside of your raid are doing? Make your raid, kill the stuff(with or without the buff) and get out. Making it a competition nation-wide,world-wide,server-wide is so trivial.

[Banzhe]

The only person who cares about your months behind guild is the members.

Turn off the buff, and your 10/25 raiders can feel the pride of beating it without, because in the end, no one else gives a shit about you clearing something months late.

but everyone cares if your the first in the world to do it yes? I love fanboyz n' their narrow minded statements

Me think blizz make everything LFR "difficult", change of "mechanic" each "boss", that the game would really shine and I could get all loot and say I only want teh ztoriez behinds it.. *facepalms*

[anabolicz]

buff on kill trash, buff off kill boss... or just remove the damn annying trash

[Grogo]

Think of like this. Everyone will be using the 5% buff so all will be on equal footing. I used to hate these buffs in the past, I detested them. But..i really thought about it and reconsidered after coming on MMO and listening to everyone's opinion. Those opinions changed my mind on a few things. This is one of them.

The very very hardcore will have DS done, the rest of us will still be on equal footing. Believe me, you are not going to steamroll to the end with 5%. We are working heroic Zonozz and are getting really close to killing him. Probably next week, would of been this week but had some no shows. In hindsight we should of done Ultraxion first and we could of been 4-5 out of 8. We chose the harder ones.

Either way, this 5% buff will put us the same plane as everyone else. I also look at it from the other side of the fence, those many many guilds that need it. I used to say "fuck em" but my opinion has changed on it. It is a good idea now. We raid 12 hours a week and do ok, I can live with the buff. If you are just competing with yourselves, then by all means turn it off.

[Joben]

but everyone cares if your the first in the world to do it yes? I love fanboyz n' their narrow minded statements

but first is already taken.

In the words of the legendary Ricky Bobby "If your not first, you're Last"

[giowatcher]

When your the 250th person or group to do something. Your pretty lame.

[huth]

It is optional. You just don't want to use the option, but it's still there.

People might have less of an issue with it if there was an achievement(or one for every boss) for doing it "unbuffed", though.
I just hope they included a switch to turn it back on this time.

[Comby]

These sort of pve threads is what I miss trolling. Damn those **********.

On the subject so I dont get banned again for the 47th time cus of triggerhappy whatucallits. Keep the buff, leave the buff, who cares.

[Lysiander]

The problem is not the buff but the tracking system. Guilds already distinguish between people that got their Ragnaros achievement before or after the nerf. The same goes for every encounter that was ever nerfed. Even years later, guilds list wether or not their Muru ir C'tun kills were pre or post nerf.
What the OP is complaining about is not actually the buff itself, but the fact that people might (will) "exploit" the buff to get a ranking on ranking sites they wouldn't have gotten without the buff (which is an assumption). Because of this, he considers the buff to be mandatory. However, it is not the changing of the difficulty, but the tracking that is off.

Its the same reasoning the guilds that cheated in LFR used and really the same problem. I'm positive very few guilds would have contemplated exploiting LFR as they did if the popular rating sites had a "no cheaters listed" policy. If the official bans had come alongside an unofficial one to list any achivements of that tier, most guilds would not dare exploit again. Those who care about the rankings care about the prestigue, the comparison of their dedication and skill to others. The actual difficulty of the encounters matters very little, only in how it relates to how fast others will clear it. Hence, the solution to either problem is not to complain about the changes, but to change the rating system to take the buffs into account.

(On a technical note, this might not actually be possible right now due to the fact that Blizzard does not list the buff in the achivements, but that is an entirely different discussion.)