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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by NightZero88 View Post
    One, queue times will go through the roof for regular players because I know on my realm horde has a complete lack of healers. Queue times would go up dramatically for us because we'd be stuck waiting for the 5 healers to bounce around between matches that would last longer (see point below)

    On top of that, each match would last longer. Sure you may hate the fact that when the enemy team has 5 healers and you can't touch their FC you will lose but the matches are generally quick as your team will just give up. If each side has 2 healers and these healers are not completely stupid a match will last longer with more turtling.
    Totally agree with both these points, as well as people already cheat the system to get in Dungeons and Raids, how exactly is it you expect this to be a system they won't cheat to get into OP?

    If it follows the system used in raiding environments, they can click the healer checkbox to get in, and then just DPS instead. Screwing the rest of the team over both in time spent waiting and in not having a healer. While it might sound fine on paper this every BG must have certain amount to start, it would never work in randoms. For that they already have rated BG's and that is really where you should go for that.

    Also have you never been in a WSG or AB or really any bg, that your team had no healers and just out DPS'd your opponent and you still won?
    Last edited by Serurian; 2012-01-23 at 03:38 PM.

  2. #22
    This post is off-topic, so disregard if gear-challenged PVPers don't concern you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serurian View Post
    Most people use random BG's for getting gear, so if a gear requirement exists, where are they getting the gear?
    This seems to be the big counter-argument and it's pure nonsense. Let's look at all the options:

    1) Purchase crafted PVP gear off the AH. Chances are highly likely that this is not your first toon, so use money from your main. Chances are also highly likely that you are in a guild which has crafters. Purchasing the mats is almost always cheaper, then have the items made for you. If this is your first toon, gold is not difficult to make. Spend some timing utilizing your professions and daily quests to purchase some starter pieces. Also if this is your first toon, chances are you're an extreme novice to PVP to begin with, so you should WANT the best gear you can easily obtain to perform as well as possible.

    2) Grab Justice Point gear. Running random heroics will get you Justice Points extremely fast with no cap. With 378 ilvl gear now, you could pick up 3-4 pieces inside a week, even playing modestly. The extra stats would make a huge difference, despite the fact that resilience is missing. Adding 200 agility from an upgraded chest may not make you live longer as a dps, but you'll do your job better. 200 intellect as a healer WILL increase your survivability by increasing your healing power. It ain't 200 resilience, but it will make a big difference, especially with multiple upgrades of that caliber.

    3) 5-man/quest gear. Between higher-level 5-mans (Tol'Vir, Grim Batol, Vortex Pinnacle) which you can run endlessly, the quests associated with these instances, and Twilight Highlands quests, one can easily replace almost every piece of gear they used leveling with a 333 counterpart.

    I don't see any valid excuse to defend someone in 289 ilvl greens from Hyjal quests in an EoTS when perfectly acceptable replacements were available from a Highlands or dungeon quest. People queueing for BG's should want to be viable, not only for themselves to be formidable competitors, but for the team aspect to increase their chances of winning. Nobody with 95k HP feels either of those. Nobody. So upgrade. Please.

    -Judge

  3. #23
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    Blizz just needs to actually recognize that healers DO have an effect on pvp balance.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Zues View Post
    You know, one smokebomb+aoe fear pretty much handles that situation
    If a feral druid or Blood DK is letting himself get killed in a 5 second smoke bomb, also if a whole group of people all eat an AoE fear and let something die with in it. You're fighting against people whos MMR is lower then their IQ

  5. #25
    Deleted
    If they introduce LFR for RBGs , fix rdruids , put limits at meele-range-specs and give even faster epiq gear , u could put a limit to healers

    Just play RBG m8 ...

  6. #26
    I really like the comparisons that you use OP,they make me giggle a bit

    As for the healer dilemma, I play Destruction warlock so... the more healers to sustain me while getting jumped on by 7 players, the merrier! Although I do agree at the end of the day that it's not fun to lack so many healers, a queuing system similar to LFD could be created, but it'd drastically slow down queuing time, not to mention tons of scrubs would queue as a healer and then DPS (and vice-versa)

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by NightZero88 View Post
    Personally, if I queue for random bgs it is for fast honor for gear. I believe this is the case for most people doing random bgs. If you want to actually enjoy the fight then queue for rated bgs with friends. Moving on, if you guarentee that each side must have 2-3 healers per match two things will happen.

    One, queue times will go through the roof for regular players because I know on my realm horde has a complete lack of healers. Queue times would go up dramatically for us because we'd be stuck waiting for the 5 healers to bounce around between matches that would last longer (see point below)

    On top of that, each match would last longer. Sure you may hate the fact that when the enemy team has 5 healers and you can't touch their FC you will lose but the matches are generally quick as your team will just give up. If each side has 2 healers and these healers are not completely stupid a match will last longer with more turtling.

    Explain to my why then, when most people are purely in BGs for fast gearing you would want to not only up the queue time for them but also up the match time significantly? What you are in effect doing is screwing over 90% of the people who do BGs for a specific reason, gear simply so YOU can have more fun because you are trying to turn a random BG into a mini rated BG in terms of requiring healers. If you want to have dedicated healers go queue for rated BGs and leave RANDOM bgs alone. They are called random for a reason.
    You shouldn't generalize unless you have data to back it up.

    You're using random bgs to get gear? Tell me why Blizzard have made all new battelgrounds over the years. Cause if you just want your gear I see no reason why we shouldn't just smack eachother faces in a bg who's play element totally have been removed.
    I dont think your argument is valid for not making the changes suggested.

    My suggestion to your problem: You'll get the queues with the scrub geared/newlydinged/8-other-blood-dks-with-agility-trinket-and-weapon players. Then you'll have plenty of players to smash to get your gear

  8. #28
    then there will be players who que up with dps but go heal spec after and still roflstomp you. but abit more class variation would not hurt

  9. #29
    Deleted
    One nasty solution would be nerf ferals, rets and SPs ... to the ground.

    They force other classes into PvP specs, they could do it with hybrids too.

    I hate bgs where we have no heals but there are like 3 ferals, 1 SP, 1 ret and 2 non-resto shamans and those never throw a heal on the FC or fellow mates.
    Last edited by mmoca9d0c481a5; 2012-01-24 at 09:43 AM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by omniscience View Post
    You shouldn't generalize unless you have data to back it up.

    You're using random bgs to get gear? Tell me why Blizzard have made all new battelgrounds over the years. Cause if you just want your gear I see no reason why we shouldn't just smack eachother faces in a bg who's play element totally have been removed.
    I dont think your argument is valid for not making the changes suggested.

    My suggestion to your problem: You'll get the queues with the scrub geared/newlydinged/8-other-blood-dks-with-agility-trinket-and-weapon players. Then you'll have plenty of players to smash to get your gear
    Not sure if serious on the bolded and underlined part. You're asking me if I'm using random bgs to get gear? Um..yes. So is everyone that plays WoW. You get honor from random BGs and you use that honor to buy gear. Where have you been?

    And I'd be super excited to have a death match style BG but Blizz has already said they won't do it. Besides that, I fail to see how BG objectives have ANY bearing on me getting honor and gear. Your post really makes little sense.

    My argument is extremely valid for not making the changes suggested. If you require at least 2 healers, queue times will go up and matches will last longer. The main reason people do BGs is for honor to gear up. Those two changes fly in the face of this. If you want to play matches where you have healers and strats you play RATED bgs, that is why Blizz made the damn thing.

    While I do admit getting a team full of idiots does suck it is still faster to lose with said team of idiots and get honor then to play a 30 minute clincher to the end because both teams have healers. I could do at least 2 matches in the time it takes you to do one.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by NightZero88 View Post
    Not sure if serious on the bolded and underlined part. You're asking me if I'm using random bgs to get gear? Um..yes. So is everyone that plays WoW. You get honor from random BGs and you use that honor to buy gear. Where have you been?

    And I'd be super excited to have a death match style BG but Blizz has already said they won't do it. Besides that, I fail to see how BG objectives have ANY bearing on me getting honor and gear. Your post really makes little sense.

    My argument is extremely valid for not making the changes suggested. If you require at least 2 healers, queue times will go up and matches will last longer. The main reason people do BGs is for honor to gear up. Those two changes fly in the face of this. If you want to play matches where you have healers and strats you play RATED bgs, that is why Blizz made the damn thing.

    While I do admit getting a team full of idiots does suck it is still faster to lose with said team of idiots and get honor then to play a 30 minute clincher to the end because both teams have healers. I could do at least 2 matches in the time it takes you to do one.
    Perhaps it's just better to hand you the gear from the vendor. No need to play, think nor anything else just get gear straight away. No sorrys, just gear.


    I find it hard to believe 90% of the all players join bgs just because they want gear. Yes, they probably want better gear but they play the bg to play the class they've chosen...
    Objectives are kindda there to entertain and challenge people, else (like I've said dozens of time allready) a bg could just consider of one big clash of players smacking eachothers faces.... I kindda find that boring

    Tell me one last thing, when you're all geared up with fancy gear what do you then do? If bgs only are there to gear people up I sure hope you have alot of friends to play arena with... or you could kill pigs outside orgrimmar now that you're full geared

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by omniscience View Post
    Perhaps it's just better to hand you the gear from the vendor. No need to play, think nor anything else just get gear straight away. No sorrys, just gear.


    I find it hard to believe 90% of the all players join bgs just because they want gear. Yes, they probably want better gear but they play the bg to play the class they've chosen...
    Objectives are kindda there to entertain and challenge people, else (like I've said dozens of time allready) a bg could just consider of one big clash of players smacking eachothers faces.... I kindda find that boring

    Tell me one last thing, when you're all geared up with fancy gear what do you then do? If bgs only are there to gear people up I sure hope you have alot of friends to play arena with... or you could kill pigs outside orgrimmar now that you're full geared
    I really don't think you have any idea what you're talking about, no offense. How on earth is me saying that I do BGs to get honor to gear up in anyway, shape or form even close to me saying: Please, hand me gear for no work. Are you even reading what I'm writing?

    And yes, as I said, a BG COULD just be a big clash of player smacking and I promise you that a TON of players would enjoy that. Blizz however has said no to such a concept. Just because YOU find something boring doesn't mean it's right.

    As to your question, when I'm all geared up in my fancy gear I go do arena or move onto doing other things. Personally I find BGs dull as hell. I'd much rather arena where people don't play like idiotic monkeys. But, when a new season comes out, if you didn't get all the gear form the previous season, if you want to catch up you know what you have to do? That's right, do random BGs to get gear so you get spanked a little less in arena. Gearing up to the current season in BGs is by far the FASTEST way to do so.

    Generally I don't pvp at all, I raid but if I had to catagorize how I feel in terms of PVP it'd be Arena-->World PVP-------------------------------------->BGs (never did rated BGs but if I did they'd be closer to arena/world pvp). I tolerate BGs to get my gear for higher end pvp content. I can't say for certain but I'm fairly confident a lot of people are in the same boat I am. They are in BGs for the simple fact they need gear. Honestly all the bgs in my opinion are quite stupid and boring. Sure, there may be a select group of people who enjoy doing BGs but again, like I said before, if you want to have a "fun" BG where it's a real battle, with healers on both sides and tactics and team work you should go do RATED BGs because THAT. IS. WHAT. BLIZZARD. MADE. THEM. FOR. I hope that is clear. Rated BGs = Team work and coordination. RANDOM BGs = Get gear and live with the stupids.

  13. #33
    I can't count the amount of times I've said this:

    Make it so that you queue for random bgs just like how you queue for random dungeons. All each side needs is 2-3 healers and one tank (and even the tank isn't a necessity).

    I'm sure that the vast majority of the playerbase is willing to put up with longer queues for a more balanced and fun bg experience.

    I love how dumb some of the arguments are in here:

    "LOL BGS WILL BE TOO LONG"
    "I ONLY DO BGS FOR GEAR"

    The proposed changes are so BGs can be FUN. Yes, there are A LOT OF PEOPLE that play bgs for fun with or without being fully geared. I got pretty much everything I wanted from honor points a while ago and I still do 3-5 bgs a day. Why? Because I already enjoy them.

    Queueing into that match with 1 healer on your team and 2 on the Ally and putting up a damn good fight, sometimes even winning, is awesome. Having it happen vice-versa is even better. There isn't a single bg I DON'T enjoy. From SotA and IoC to WSG and AV I love all of them.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2012-01-24 at 08:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    I can't count the amount of times I've said this:

    Make it so that you queue for random bgs just like how you queue for random dungeons. All each side needs is 2-3 healers and one tank (and even the tank isn't a necessity).

    I'm sure that the vast majority of the playerbase is willing to put up with longer queues for a more balanced and fun bg experience.

    I love how dumb some of the arguments are in here:

    "LOL BGS WILL BE TOO LONG"
    "I ONLY DO BGS FOR GEAR"

    The proposed changes are so BGs can be FUN. Yes, there are A LOT OF PEOPLE that play bgs for fun with or without being fully geared. I got pretty much everything I wanted from honor points a while ago and I still do 3-5 bgs a day. Why? Because I already enjoy them.

    Queueing into that match with 1 healer on your team and 2 on the Ally and putting up a damn good fight, sometimes even winning, is awesome. Having it happen vice-versa is even better. There isn't a single bg I DON'T enjoy. From SotA and IoC to WSG and AV I love all of them.
    Nice shot there at me. However, as I said to the person before, if you want to do that sort of BG then go do RATED BGs. That is what they are there for. I don't understand why this concept is beyond all of you.

    And random BG times on my server are generally about 5-10 minutes. I don't really feel like adding an additional 5-10 minutes on top of that just so YOU can get your BGs to have healers in them.

    Sure, you're right, fighting that bitter battle with 1 healer vs 2 and having it go for the full timer can be awesome. Do I want that every game? Hell no. If I did, I'd go do rated BGs because that is what they are (funny how it always comes back to this no?).

    And I'm sorry you feel that queue timers being longer and most people doing BGs are doing them for gear are stupid reasons. They are in fact not. They are fact. I challenge you to go find 15 people to respond to this post telling me they want their queue times to go up so that battles can last longer and be more epic. So far in this entire topic you have 3. I bet I can find double that amount to tell you that they don't want that at all.

    EDIT: By the way, you are in the vast vast VAST minority if you love all BGs, I can tell you for certainty a lot of people despise SotA and IoC. This also is a reason why I believe you are just speaking for yourself and not the majority as you clearly do not have a pulse on the view of most people in BGs. You may like this change, you may love it but it's not about YOU. It's about the majority.
    Last edited by NightZero88; 2012-01-24 at 08:51 PM.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Malgru View Post
    Yesterday in Twin Peaks, I faced an Alliance group of two 5 man premades.

    Both premades had 5 healers. They RP walked across the field with the flag.
    I would actually be willing to suck up a loss just to see that. That'd be hilarious.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    I can't count the amount of times I've said this:

    Make it so that you queue for random bgs just like how you queue for random dungeons. All each side needs is 2-3 healers and one tank (and even the tank isn't a necessity).

    I'm sure that the vast majority of the playerbase is willing to put up with longer queues for a more balanced and fun bg experience.

    I love how dumb some of the arguments are in here:

    "LOL BGS WILL BE TOO LONG"
    "I ONLY DO BGS FOR GEAR"

    The proposed changes are so BGs can be FUN. Yes, there are A LOT OF PEOPLE that play bgs for fun with or without being fully geared. I got pretty much everything I wanted from honor points a while ago and I still do 3-5 bgs a day. Why? Because I already enjoy them.

    Queueing into that match with 1 healer on your team and 2 on the Ally and putting up a damn good fight, sometimes even winning, is awesome. Having it happen vice-versa is even better. There isn't a single bg I DON'T enjoy. From SotA and IoC to WSG and AV I love all of them.
    I wish I could live in this fantasy world where people dont queue for Dungeons / Raids thru the tools that are already in place in the incorrect roles just to get into them quicker. As this is the system you want to implement for BG's, so yes you can have your 2-3 people with the little + icon on their name, how many of those is an actual healer, who knows. Premade BG's have existed for the longest time and people do premake groups and enter the BG's thus ensuring they will have all they need. Rated BG's exist now and they have pre-formed groups so they can make sure they have everything they need.

    As NightZero stated, certain BG's I dread when I see they came up, IoC and SoTA just to name the 2 most common. Also my server random BG queue is already around 7 minutes each time, I don't want to add even another 2 minutes onto that to garuntee I have 2-3 people that are supposed to be healers. Really how useful is it getting 2-3 healers if all 3 are in PvE gear?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by NightZero88 View Post
    I really don't think you have any idea what you're talking about, no offense. How on earth is me saying that I do BGs to get honor to gear up in anyway, shape or form even close to me saying: Please, hand me gear for no work. Are you even reading what I'm writing?

    And yes, as I said, a BG COULD just be a big clash of player smacking and I promise you that a TON of players would enjoy that. Blizz however has said no to such a concept. Just because YOU find something boring doesn't mean it's right.

    As to your question, when I'm all geared up in my fancy gear I go do arena or move onto doing other things. Personally I find BGs dull as hell. I'd much rather arena where people don't play like idiotic monkeys. But, when a new season comes out, if you didn't get all the gear form the previous season, if you want to catch up you know what you have to do? That's right, do random BGs to get gear so you get spanked a little less in arena. Gearing up to the current season in BGs is by far the FASTEST way to do so.

    Generally I don't pvp at all, I raid but if I had to catagorize how I feel in terms of PVP it'd be Arena-->World PVP-------------------------------------->BGs (never did rated BGs but if I did they'd be closer to arena/world pvp). I tolerate BGs to get my gear for higher end pvp content. I can't say for certain but I'm fairly confident a lot of people are in the same boat I am. They are in BGs for the simple fact they need gear. Honestly all the bgs in my opinion are quite stupid and boring. Sure, there may be a select group of people who enjoy doing BGs but again, like I said before, if you want to have a "fun" BG where it's a real battle, with healers on both sides and tactics and team work you should go do RATED BGs because THAT. IS. WHAT. BLIZZARD. MADE. THEM. FOR. I hope that is clear. Rated BGs = Team work and coordination. RANDOM BGs = Get gear and live with the stupids.
    I find it quite amuzing that you state you're not demanding gear handed over and then write it further below. I could say the same thing about you not know what you're talking about, but I dont think it'll make this discussing go any further.

    Also, just because YOU find bgs boring doesn't neccesarily make them so. I simply cannot understand how you actually can speak for the majority of the wow population, but I guess your gut feeling allways is correct.

    Think about it, blizzard made the bgs long before RBGs were introduced. Tell me why is that so if they're only there to gear you up?

    You know, some of us actually enjoy playing a bg together with 1 or 2 friends, talking on vent and such things. Should we just be catered to find 8 more players if we want to have fun? Like sunday morning when I just want to run one bg for fun.... or thursday around midnight when I came home from work or smth similar?

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by omniscience View Post
    I find it quite amuzing that you state you're not demanding gear handed over and then write it further below. I could say the same thing about you not know what you're talking about, but I dont think it'll make this discussing go any further.

    Also, just because YOU find bgs boring doesn't neccesarily make them so. I simply cannot understand how you actually can speak for the majority of the wow population, but I guess your gut feeling allways is correct.

    Think about it, blizzard made the bgs long before RBGs were introduced. Tell me why is that so if they're only there to gear you up?

    You know, some of us actually enjoy playing a bg together with 1 or 2 friends, talking on vent and such things. Should we just be catered to find 8 more players if we want to have fun? Like sunday morning when I just want to run one bg for fun.... or thursday around midnight when I came home from work or smth similar?
    I have a feeling you are just trolling him now as in the bolded parts you even quoted he specifically did not say he wanted gear handed over for nothing. He said he tolerates the bg's because he needs the gear as a large portion of people that do arena, which is the logic behind a lot of arena players using bots in bg's not because the bg's are fun, but because they are the neccessary grind to get to the next level.

    The facts are since blizzard constantly releases new tiers of honor gear each season that are better than the conquest gear of the previous season. Competitive PVP players are forced to do BG's which not all of them want to do, that is the gear grind. Competitive PVP players aren't looking to join random BG's for funsies on weekends, unless they just are looking to curbstomp the opposing team. They either have a RBG team or if their server is not strong enough for that are stuck doing random BG's.

    Also, just because you find them fun yourself doesn't mean the majority of the wow population does, that is your personal opinion, he is actually allowed to have a opinion you disagree with. If he finds them boring, he is stating his own opinion, just as you seem keen to do over and over. Also I don't know how you can comment on the length of BG's as it has changed with the gearing curve, AV's in WoTLK didn't take as long as old school AV's and WoTLK AV's debatably took less time then AV's do now.

    If you want to play with your friends, that is fine as well, but not everyone else should have to wait an extended queue just because you want to ensure you are in a certain bg setup. If you don't like the random bg you get you can just quit and requeue after you lose deserter, otherwise just take what is randomly given you. You want the enjoyment of a random and not having to gather the people to create a team, but then you also want blizzard to make sure that everything you want is in it exactly how you want it.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by NightZero88 View Post
    Nice shot there at me. However, as I said to the person before, if you want to do that sort of BG then go do RATED BGs. That is what they are there for. I don't understand why this concept is beyond all of you.

    And random BG times on my server are generally about 5-10 minutes. I don't really feel like adding an additional 5-10 minutes on top of that just so YOU can get your BGs to have healers in them.

    Sure, you're right, fighting that bitter battle with 1 healer vs 2 and having it go for the full timer can be awesome. Do I want that every game? Hell no. If I did, I'd go do rated BGs because that is what they are (funny how it always comes back to this no?).

    And I'm sorry you feel that queue timers being longer and most people doing BGs are doing them for gear are stupid reasons. They are in fact not. They are fact. I challenge you to go find 15 people to respond to this post telling me they want their queue times to go up so that battles can last longer and be more epic. So far in this entire topic you have 3. I bet I can find double that amount to tell you that they don't want that at all.

    EDIT: By the way, you are in the vast vast VAST minority if you love all BGs, I can tell you for certainty a lot of people despise SotA and IoC. This also is a reason why I believe you are just speaking for yourself and not the majority as you clearly do not have a pulse on the view of most people in BGs. You may like this change, you may love it but it's not about YOU. It's about the majority.

    A LOT of the VOCAL MINORITY hate IoC and SotA. Next you'll tell me that I'm in the "vast vast VAST minority" if I still love this game because of how many people are screaming how bad this game is.

    Random battlegrounds for me are for fun. I can't schedule my time around rated battlegrounds so I don't do them. The problem that you're having lies not with the battlegrounds (and thus that's NOT what should be "fixed") but with how you obtain gear for the type of PvP you enjoy. There's a very simple solution to that and I believe its coming in MoP if I remember correctly. That is, arenas and bgs will provide a single currency. You can do either/or to get the gear you need.

    If I personally had any say in it I'd want this game to have a universal currency so, if you wanted, you could do arenas all day for PvE gear.

    Its just really stupid when you're being forced to do something you don't enjoy as an avenue to get to something you do.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Serurian View Post
    I have a feeling you are just trolling him now as in the bolded parts you even quoted he specifically did not say he wanted gear handed over for nothing. He said he tolerates the bg's because he needs the gear as a large portion of people that do arena, which is the logic behind a lot of arena players using bots in bg's not because the bg's are fun, but because they are the neccessary grind to get to the next level.

    The facts are since blizzard constantly releases new tiers of honor gear each season that are better than the conquest gear of the previous season. Competitive PVP players are forced to do BG's which not all of them want to do, that is the gear grind. Competitive PVP players aren't looking to join random BG's for funsies on weekends, unless they just are looking to curbstomp the opposing team. They either have a RBG team or if their server is not strong enough for that are stuck doing random BG's.

    Also, just because you find them fun yourself doesn't mean the majority of the wow population does, that is your personal opinion, he is actually allowed to have a opinion you disagree with. If he finds them boring, he is stating his own opinion, just as you seem keen to do over and over. Also I don't know how you can comment on the length of BG's as it has changed with the gearing curve, AV's in WoTLK didn't take as long as old school AV's and WoTLK AV's debatably took less time then AV's do now.

    If you want to play with your friends, that is fine as well, but not everyone else should have to wait an extended queue just because you want to ensure you are in a certain bg setup. If you don't like the random bg you get you can just quit and requeue after you lose deserter, otherwise just take what is randomly given you. You want the enjoyment of a random and not having to gather the people to create a team, but then you also want blizzard to make sure that everything you want is in it exactly how you want it.
    You should read the first posts in this discussion if you want to post. I'm not saying he cant have his opinion, hell I cant have my opinion either? He's argumenting that I need to RBG's because I find them fun. He's also stating he knows what the majority of the wow population wants, and that's gear.

    Also, I dont recall having said anything negative about the length of bgs, so that's maybe you trolling me?

    Please repost something new and constructive to this discussion so we can get moving

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