the REAL reason why WoW has shifted so much (for the worse)

[Ebbikenezer]

Your argument holds no weight because the game didn't start to decline after BC, it started to Decline a few months after Cata. In Wrath it reached it's peak which suggests that the quality was fine.

Here, I'll be Devil's Advocate: Saying it "reached it's peak" during Wrath is ONLY factual based on sub numbers, it has NOTHING to do with how long-term players actually felt about the game. That's subjective at all times, because simply put: It's a matter of opinion.

Doesn't matter what you or I think, everyone has their own feelings on it, so making claims as if they are fact is just silly and blatant hypothesizing AT BEST.

[Sam the Wiser]

Why must we make a thread about why wow is dying everyday!

[Deleted]

I wonder why people don't remember that Jeff Kaplan, yes this same Jeff Kaplan, was pretty much the most hated figure in the Blizzard staff during his tenure by the more rabid mouthed playerbase. Pretty much the same way Ghostcrawler is heaped with the burdens of the ills and grievances of more vocal of the playerbase who hate x feature or y aspect of today's game, Jeff Kaplan had little love until he left the game where upon he was transformed into into the messianic epitome of what people like to believe where WoW's hardcore glory years. Absence really does make the heart grow fonder. What will these people say when Titan is eventually released and they discover that it's not the hardcore MMO they thought would be delivered by their "geniuses"?

[Freese]

Well I personally put time into something where I do stand out, not put in more time into something where I am not getting any additional benefit.
It's only fair that skill/effort is rewarded accordingly in anything u do in life?

In diablo 3 I can clear act 4 inferno in under 80min and have made over 600 Euros and over 500million gold, so at least I am getting something for my efforts.

Also have a full time job so would be even more if I was playing hardcore

When you kill Heroic content before the nerfs, before everyone is undergeared, before the next content cycle, you stand out. When REALM FIRST SINESTRA pops up and spams the whole server, you stand out. By "additional benefits," are you referring to rewards that no one have but you? If so, there is such a reward: your achievement kill date. If you killed Sinestra between January and May 2011, you have more bragging rights than someone who killed it in 403 gear on July 2012.

---------- Post added 2012-07-16 at 10:01 AM ----------

Just to add if everyone had your PoV I would love it, being a ex GM I valued players with your attitude.Unfortunately not every player sees it that way and a lot of raid grp is made up of good players also being there for loot, bragging rights and only motivated by doing content a few times.

LFR killed our raids, people started wondering why we doing this and it was decided that people would rather just go casual as the motivation to do harder content was not there. Sure I could of spun some BS stories as a GM to keep the wanting to push on but had to agree with them.

With that being said there is still some old school 25 man guilds with old school mentality that are successful still.

I agree that a lot of people don't see it this way, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation. The reason why you don't see vodka, Blood Legion, and other top guilds participating in these silly debates is because they killed the content when it was at it's most difficult and that is good enough for them. They have a WoW progress ranking to show that they are better than everyone else.

[Deleted]

ALL 3 of these geniuses

Qualifying that as genius actually tells alot about you. Furor and Tigole are mostly (in-)famous for a whiny rant:

"You have 14 Days. If after that time the Plane is not properly tuned, I am deleting my characters, and cancelling all of my accounts. The rest of my guild will follow suit, as will several other guilds and people that play Everquest.

To be brief, I did not work my ass off, jumping through your idiotic hoops with my friends and guildmates, so I could go to a zone where only groups of 18 could enjoy the content. EVEN if past these initial moronic events I can finally get my entire guild in to raid with me, FUCK YOU GUYS. Seriously, FUCK YOU.

I cannot believe this... right now I'm just so pissed off. I am sitting here in the Plane of Time, and 3/4 of my guild is just sitting around while a group of 18 is repeatedly trying to beat one of the mini ring encounters. Don't you people have ANY FUCKING DECENCY? SMEDLEY WHY DON'T YOU STOP COUNTING YOUR MONEY AND START ISSUING ORDERS?

The tragic irony of creating the ultimate cockblock encounter in the form of the Rathe which requires 80 people to defeat and then to limit encounters in the Plane of Time to 18.

14 Days.... after that this site will change from the most popular EQ fan site on the internet to the most popular World of Warcraft fan site on the internet. I'm done playing ball with you useless fuckers... it's my turn."

Thats the family-friendly version. Didn't find the original on short notice.

So yeah they may be fine rolemodels for generations of videogame whiners. But certainly not more. Their influence in Activision-Blizzard these days is around janitor level.

[Yriel]

Let's take a look at the three main players during the development of WoW. ALL 3 of these geniuses no longer work on WoW and now focus all their efforts on the new upcoming unannounced mmo "Titan". No wonder WoW has been going down the drain since after BC...
Jeffrey Kaplan

Alex Afrasiabi

Interesting to see how all three of these guys were the best of the best back in the Everquest days...

Alex Afrasiabi was a quest designer in WoW, he had nothing to do at all with the raid endgame.
Jeff Kaplan had, but considering how his last raid in WoW was Naxx 2.0 and that was considered the biggest failure by the hardcore raid community i´m not sure if you should praise him so high...

[Bryntrollian]

It peaked during Ulduar which was the last raid made by the original team.

Are you actually implying Naxx 2.0 or ToC were great raids?

Who the hell said anything about PvE ?

[Shiny212]

game is ok, if you take long breaks. and was BC really that great by today standards?

Yes. It was superior in every way.

[Saffa]

Please rename thread to

'the REAL reason why WoW has shifted so much (for the worse) (in my opinion not the opinion of the 10+ million subscribers, very very many of whom are very happy with it)'

[Pull My Finger]

I wonder why people don't remember that Jeff Kaplan, yes this same Jeff Kaplan, was pretty much the most hated figure in the Blizzard staff during his tenure by the more rabid mouthed playerbase. Pretty much the same way Ghostcrawler is heaped with the burdens of the ills and grievances of more vocal of the playerbase who hate x feature or y aspect of today's game, Jeff Kaplan had little love until he left the game where upon he was transformed into into the messianic epitome of what people like to believe where WoW's hardcore glory years. Absence really does make the heart grow fonder.

This is spot on.

[Deleted]

Alex Afrasiabi was a quest designer in WoW, he had nothing to do at all with the raid endgame.
Jeff Kaplan had, but considering how his last raid in WoW was Naxx 2.0 and that was considered the biggest failure by the hardcore raid community i´m not sure if you should praise him so high...

Ulduar was already in the wotlk beta files so you are wrong.

[Yriel]

Ulduar was already in the wotlk beta files so you are wrong.

Yes but he didn´t finish Ulduar although he has worked on some parts of it. He did Naxx 2.0 as the lead raid designer though so he was fully responsible on that.

[RickJamesLich]

I would like to see a 4 year old kill Heroic Ragnaros or Sinestra.

Has the game as a whole become easier for people to access? Sure. However, the challenge is still there if you want it. In order to do it, you have to start raiding heroics the week they come out, which means there are no nerfs and you are undergeared.

Personally, I did LFR, thought it was insulting how easy it was lol, decided since I just saw the whole content, what's the point of doing it on a mode where the boss simply hits harder? It's kind of like if you got a new book, started reading it, and realized there was only one chapter and it got straight to the end. I doubt you'd wanna read it again lol.

Not to mention, think of how large WoW is, and you can only name two things that are challenging?

[Jeina]

In this Thread: Many people claiming to have been selected to "speak for the community".

[Nigeldruid]

WoW used to be a game made by gamers, for gamers. It's not anymore.

[Frozenshiva]

WoW used to be a game made by gamers, for gamers. It's not anymore.

Oh my friend, you are so very wrong, you have no idea.
It still is a game for gamers. Whether people acknowledge the fact that they grew up or not is a whole different story.

Queen was a great singer in his time, so were 3 dozen other bands/singers i could name in a heartbeat and a hundred songs that made my childhood. But that doesn't mean I'm going to demand society to revert back 20years just so i can get my fill of nostalgia.

Get over it. We grew up, we're smarter (oh the irony), more aware, more experienced and simply with a different mentality. It's how things work.
I might have loved watching all seasons of the 70's show, 3rd rock from the sun, dragon ball Z and other series and anime i grew up with, and i do remember them fondly , but if a series were released today with that graphics/humor/length, it just wouldn't fly. I don't have the patience to watch 300+episodes of the same thing. Sure it sucks somewhat when the series is shorter and you wish there was more, but I'd rather have less and many to choose from than a lot and no options.

[Freese]

Personally, I did LFR, thought it was insulting how easy it was lol, decided since I just saw the whole content, what's the point of doing it on a mode where the boss simply hits harder? It's kind of like if you got a new book, started reading it, and realized there was only one chapter and it got straight to the end. I doubt you'd wanna read it again lol.

Not to mention, think of how large WoW is, and you can only name two things that are challenging?

I can name plenty more things that are challenging in World of Warcraft. I just didn't want the entirety of my post being taken up with all of those things that a four year old cannot do in WoW. It's called using an example.

Also, Heroic raiding is more than just "things hit harder." In most cases, heroic fights have to be done in a completely different (and difficult) way than their normal counterparts.

[Deleted]

So I have to ask. When you say "Devs" do you mean that in a generalized way? Such as, is everyone who works on a game considered a "Dev" to you? I only ask because the people making the decisions on where the game goes aren't devs. They are usually producers or project managers. At least, this has been my experience working in the games industry for the last 10 years.

I apologize if this came off as snippy. I know it sounds a little harsh, but it isn't intended that way. I am just curious.

When I say devs I actually mean the game designers, the people who gets to decide what is used and what isnt. Such as the 3 people described in the OP.

[Imnick]

When I say devs I actually mean the game designers, the people who gets to decide what is used and what isnt. Such as the 3 people described in the OP.

You got any proof that Blizzard don't actually play their own game or did you just make it up because it sounds snappy?

[Jtbrig7390]

Yes. It was superior in every way.

This is what is called a *Opinion* and not fact i respect that u feel like BC was better but in my *Opinion* i enjoyed wrath 1000x more then BC and cata is..........bad lol.