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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    The nutritions healthier food is so cheap that everyone in the US can afford it.
    No, it's not. Nutritious food is still more expensive than poor quality or unbalanced food. It's why we have such a health epidemic on our hands in the U.S.
    Last edited by cubby; 2012-01-28 at 04:23 PM.

  2. #242
    I am Murloc! Atrea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    You only need a temporary surplus. You get $5 => You buy ingedients and make food for the following 5 days. You get $5 => You spend $1 per day the following 5 days. (Numbers simplified to make the point clearer).

    The ingredients to make proper food are atleast not more expensive than in Finland. Most likely it's much cheaper in the US. I'm sure junk food is cheaper in the US (I Know they subsidise junk food production pretty significantly over there, another sign of central planning failure). The thing is that creating proper food in higher volumes is still cheaper than junk. The nutritions healthier food is so cheap that everyone in the US can afford it.


    Culture.
    I can't believe how stubborn you are being. You've been told repeatedly that, despite your insistence, fresh food is not cheaper than frozen/canned/processed shit -- at least not anywhere in Canada or the United States.
    Yet here you are, still prattling on about how it is "most likely much cheaper".

    It isn't. You're wrong. Please get it through your head.

    I'm not saying that it's a good thing. I think it's terrible.
    Personally, I try not to eat anything that is processed. I buy organic vegetables and fruits, and I don't mind paying extra.
    However, I have a fairly decent income, and I am a bachelor. To boot, I'm a chef - so I can make pretty much anything from the base ingredients.
    Having said that, I can also afford to spend $9 on organic mango salsa.

    A person who is living on welfare, however, can't. They live off of things like Kraft Dinner (macaroni and processed cheese powder, mmm), and hot dogs.
    Why? Because you can buy a pack of 8 hot dogs for a dollar, and a box of Kraft Dinner for 89 cents. (And that's not even a sale price!)
    You can feed you and your kids for less than a dollar each.

    Ask any Canadian kid who grew up in a poor family how many times they had Kraft Dinner and hot dogs for dinner.

    You simply cannot buy fresh fruit, vegetables and meat for that kind of money.
    And you know what? Maybe you're right. Maybe it is a cultural thing.
    Maybe if people spent a little less money on luxuries, they could afford fresh fruits and vegetables.

    However, concern over the quality of the food we eat tends to be the last thing on our mind.
    It's a failing, to be sure. But that's the way it is.
    Last edited by Atrea; 2012-01-28 at 04:28 PM.

  3. #243
    Fearing this? Not really, why would you fear living in danger from getting into a gas chamber etc? Its common to like this kind of stuff. Dictatorship is smth Im really missing in my life atm. So yes, giiiief 1 world goverment now. (ofc there might be a "better" goverment around, but in the end it will get corrupted and collapsed by some hardcore wannabes anyway)

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrea View Post
    I can't believe how stubborn you are being. You've been told repeatedly that, despite your insistence, fresh food is not cheaper than frozen/canned/processed shit -- at least not anywhere in Canada or the United States.
    Yet here you are, still prattling on about how it is "most likely much cheaper".

    It isn't. You're wrong. Please get it through your head.

    I'm not saying that it's a good thing. I think it's terrible.
    Personally, I try not to eat anything that is processed. I buy organic vegetables and fruits, and I don't mind paying extra.
    However, I have a fairly decent income, and I am a bachelor. To boot, I'm a chef - so I can make pretty much anything from the base ingredients.
    Having said that, I can also afford to spend $9 on organic mango salsa.

    A person who is living on welfare, however, can't. They live off of things like Kraft Dinner (macaroni and processed cheese powder, mmm), and hot dogs.
    Why? Because you can buy a pack of 8 hot dogs for a dollar, and a box of Kraft Dinner for 89 cents. (And that's not even a sale price!)
    You can feed you and your kids for less than a dollar each.

    Ask any Canadian kid who grew up in a poor family how many times they had Kraft Dinner and hot dogs for dinner.

    You simply cannot buy fresh fruit, vegetables and meat for that kind of money.
    And you know what? Maybe you're right. Maybe it is a cultural thing.
    Maybe if people spent a little less money on luxuries, they could afford fresh fruits and vegetables.

    However, concern over the quality of the food we eat tends to be the last thing on our mind.
    It's a failing, to be sure. But that's the way it is.
    Everything above is absolutely correct. I have to admit I thought you were kidding when you said Diurdi couldn't give up the point that fresh food cost more than cheap, process poor quality food. I thought EVERYBODY knew that already. Interesting.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrea View Post
    I can't believe how stubborn you are being. You've been told repeatedly that, despite your insistence, fresh food is not cheaper than frozen/canned/processed shit -- at least not anywhere in Canada or the United States.
    Yet here you are, still prattling on about how it is "most likely much cheaper".

    It isn't. You're wrong. Please get it through your head.

    I'm not saying that it's a good thing. I think it's terrible.
    Personally, I try not to eat anything that is processed. I buy organic vegetables and fruits, and I don't mind paying extra.
    However, I have a fairly decent income, and I am a bachelor. To boot, I'm a chef - so I can make pretty much anything from the base ingredients.
    Having said that, I can also afford to spend $9 on organic mango salsa.

    A person who is living on welfare, however, can't. They live off of things like Kraft Dinner (macaroni and processed cheese powder, mmm), and hot dogs.
    Why? Because you can buy a pack of 8 hot dogs for a dollar, and a box of Kraft Dinner for 89 cents. (And that's not even a sale price!)
    You can feed you and your kids for less than a dollar each.

    Ask any Canadian kid who grew up in a poor family how many times they had Kraft Dinner and hot dogs for dinner.

    You simply cannot buy fresh fruit, vegetables and meat for that kind of money.
    And you know what? Maybe you're right. Maybe it is a cultural thing.
    Maybe if people spent a little less money on luxuries, they could afford fresh fruits and vegetables.

    However, concern over the quality of the food we eat tends to be the last thing on our mind.
    It's a failing, to be sure. But that's the way it is.
    Why do you even bring up $9 organic mango salsa? No one is suggesting that you should buy that if you're on a tight budget. Heck, you don't need any spices if you're really on a budget.

    Again, you can make a perfectly healthy meal with a per portion cost of under $1 in the US. I'm almost certain most poor obese people pay $1 or more per meal anyhow on average.

    However, concern over the quality of the food we eat tends to be the last thing on our mind.
    Exactly. Taste is more important than healthiness. When you're on a tight budget, you have to choose either of them (unless you have cooking skills).

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    Why do you even bring up $9 organic mango salsa? No one is suggesting that you should buy that if you're on a tight budget. Heck, you don't need any spices if you're really on a budget.

    Again, you can make a perfectly healthy meal with a per portion cost of under $1 in the US. I'm almost certain most poor obese people pay $1 or more per meal anyhow on average.
    No, you cannot. You are absolutely wrong on this point. Poor quality, processed food is much less expensive than healthy, natural nutritious food. And no, we are not talking about $9 mango salsa (way to entirely miss his point). A box of Kraft Mac & Cheese costs $0.89. A bag of organically grown carrots costs $2.00.

    If you don't understand what we are talking about, that is fine, ask questions. I work in the food industry. I work for an organic farm. I know PRECISELY what I'm talking about.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Everything above is absolutely correct. I have to admit I thought you were kidding when you said Diurdi couldn't give up the point that fresh food cost more than cheap, process poor quality food. I thought EVERYBODY knew that already. Interesting.
    Canned meat is cheaper than beef yes. That's not what the argument is about.

    It's about making healthy food (it doesn't have to be the highest quality ingredients) cheaper than junk fast food.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    Canned meat is cheaper than beef yes. That's not what the argument is about.

    It's about making healthy food (it doesn't have to be the highest quality ingredients) cheaper than junk fast food.
    Precisely, and right now, junky fast food and processed crap (i.e. canned meat) in stores is cheaper than healthy, nutritious food that you buy ingredients for and make yourself. How are you not understanding this?

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-28 at 04:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    I don't believe for a second that meat or frozen/fresh vedgetables are more expensive in the US.
    Read back a bit regarding your posts. You do realize (and I can't believe I get to say this) that it doesn't matter what you believe if it doesn't coincide with reality, right?

    (the less you know, the more you believe)
    Last edited by cubby; 2012-01-28 at 04:48 PM.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Everything above is absolutely correct. I have to admit I thought you were kidding when you said Diurdi couldn't give up the point that fresh food cost more than cheap, process poor quality food. I thought EVERYBODY knew that already. Interesting.
    I also don't know what he means by 'subsidizing junk food production'. I've never heard of that happening; junk food production doesn't need government handouts, that's for sure! In fact, I recall in Toronto, they stopped putting junk food in the school vending machines. Quite the opposite of subsidization!

    Is it so hard to fathom that a factory can mass produce 100000 1kg bags of frozen corn and ship it to the store for the same price that 10000 ears of fresh corn costs BEFORE shipping?

    Let me put it into another perspective.

    At my restaurant, we buy fresh tomatoes for $16 for about 10kg.
    We also use canned crushed tomatoes for our red sauce. Why? Because I get a 3kg can of crushed tomatoes - with reduced water volume - for $1.15.

    When you go through about 10 cans a day, that adds up. Food cost is the second largest expense in the restaurant business (after labour), and I have a responsibility to the owners to keep that food cost as low as possible, while still maintaining a standard of quality.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    No, you cannot. You are absolutely wrong on this point. Poor quality, processed food is much less expensive than healthy, natural nutritious food. And no, we are not talking about $9 mango salsa (way to entirely miss his point). A box of Kraft Mac & Cheese costs $0.89. A bag of organically grown carrots costs $2.00.

    If you don't understand what we are talking about, that is fine, ask questions. I work in the food industry. I work for an organic farm. I know PRECISELY what I'm talking about.
    600g (21oz) pork-beef ground meat = 3€
    2kg (70oz) Frozen Vedgetables = 1.5€
    accessories = max 0.5€
    => 5€ for atleast 10 portions of soup
    => 0.5€/portion

    And these are in Finnish expensive prices (Value Added Tax etc).

    EDIT: Forgot potatoes, reduce some frz vedgetables for slightly more expensive potatoes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Atrea View Post
    I also don't know what he means by 'subsidizing junk food production'. I've never heard of that happening; junk food production doesn't need government handouts, that's for sure! In fact, I recall in Toronto, they stopped putting junk food in the school vending machines. Quite the opposite of subsidization!
    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/mone...subsidies.html
    Last edited by mmoc43ae88f2b9; 2012-01-28 at 04:54 PM.

  11. #251
    Just because its organic doesn't mean its better.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    Again, you can make a perfectly healthy meal with a per portion cost of under $1 in the US. I'm almost certain most poor obese people pay $1 or more per meal anyhow on average.
    No, you can't. I can't be any more clear than this. You cannot. You are wrong.
    You have like, five people - all of whom live in the United States or Canada - telling you that you can't. One of them is a chef that runs a restaurant.
    The other is an employee of an organic farm. I don't know if the others are involved in the food industry.

    How can you, a person who doesn't even live here, tell us what things cost?

    Hey Diurdi, in Finland it rains COCKS. I read it in a book, and no matter what you say to the contrary, I'm going to keep insisting that it rains cocks.
    It doesn't matter that you live there, and that I've never been there. It doesn't matter if you are a meteorologist and can tell me beyond a shadow of a doubt that it does not, in fact, rain cocks in Finland. It doesn't even matter if there are several people from Finland in this thread telling me otherwise.
    I'm going to keep on suggesting that it rains cocks in Finland, because by god, it JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE OTHERWISE!

    That is how ridiculous you sound.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveyboy View Post
    Just because its organic doesn't mean its better.
    I'm not talking about organic hippie food either. I'm talking about something that is healthy enough that it won't make you obese.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveyboy View Post
    Just because its organic doesn't mean its better.
    I know. I find organic fruits and vegetables to taste better, though.
    Also, I know that they are grown locally rather than shipped in from like, Thailand, and I feel good about supporting local agriculture.
    Finally, I can feed it to myself and my guests knowing that no one is going to be eating any pesticides or preservatives from something made in MY kitchen.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    600g (21oz) pork-beef ground meat = 3€
    2kg (70oz) Frozen Vedgetables = 1.5€
    accessories = max 0.5€
    => 5€ for atleast 10 portions of soup
    => 0.5€/portion
    And that's super neat that you have missed the two most important points in your previous arguments.

    First, the food you listed is neither fresh nor nutritious. It's frozen, processed (read the ingredients of your "pork-beef ground meat - they are euphemisms for "shit left on the processing floor after we slaughter the animals) and drained of most of the nutritious qualities.

    Second, we are talking about prices in Canada and the U.S., per your own statement.

    It's why you can get frozen/canned food so much cheaper than food bought in the fresh produce section.

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-28 at 04:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    I'm not talking about organic hippie food either. I'm talking about something that is healthy enough that it won't make you obese.
    We are talking about the same thing. I'm not sure you know what organic means.

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    600g (21oz) pork-beef ground meat = 3€
    2kg (70oz) Frozen Vedgetables = 1.5€
    accessories = max 0.5€
    => 5€ for atleast 10 portions of soup
    => 0.5€/portion

    And these are in Finnish expensive prices (Value Added Tax etc).

    EDIT: Forgot potatoes, reduce some frz vedgetables for slightly more expensive potatoes.




    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/mone...subsidies.html
    Frozen vegetables are processed, with literally none of the nutrients left intact.
    It is PRECISELY this crap that makes you fat, because it is empty calories with ZERO nutritional value.

  17. #257
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    As long as Dr. Doom is running the world, I'd support it.

    Dr. Doom for President!
    Fenixdown (retail) : level 60 priest. 2005-2015, 2022-???? (returned!)
    Fenixdown (classic) : level 70 priest. 2019 - present

  18. #258
    The thing about a one world government is petty simple, as long as I'm running it, it would work fine. But sadly, that's only a 1 in 7 billion chance, so it's more likely it will ge screwed up

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveyboy View Post
    Just because its organic doesn't mean its better.
    In fact, it does mean it's better. Do you know why?

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingHorse View Post
    Will never happen you mean.

    Every religion thinks theirs is right. Nothing wrong with that: confidence in your own opinions is human nature. But telling other humans that they're wrong and stupid for it is also human nature. There will be no "One world government" until there is only one or no religion.
    religion will die out sooner than u might think, the biggest problems of our world are religion and nationalism. those two things are the reason for every war, every conflict and genocide. whoever thinks the world is better off if ran by many nations and their religions is an insult to humanity.

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