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  1. #1

    Where did various MMO innovations originate?

    I was thinking this morning about some of the various MMO's launched recently (and those coming) and got to wondering about where some of the basic game features we've come to take for granted and where they came from. My first MMO was vanilla wow, so my own experience is somewhat limited.

    For example, who came out with instanced portions of the game? Was it Blizzard?

    I know of lot the RPG characteristics (gear upgrades, levels, talent trees, quests) grew out of, well, RPG's. But what about the notion that certain roles needed to be filled in order to take down more powerful bosses?

    And then some other minor things: mounts, auction houses, professions.

    I think it helps me when I'm evaluating a game to understand its own place in the genesis of what we consider to be an MMO, and whether or not is has played (or might play) an important, influential role or if it is just another expression of the same game features we've already experienced.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by fecalizer View Post
    I was thinking this morning about some of the various MMO's launched recently (and those coming) and got to wondering about where some of the basic game features we've come to take for granted and where they came from. My first MMO was vanilla wow, so my own experience is somewhat limited.

    For example, who came out with instanced portions of the game? Was it Blizzard?
    Pretty sure Blizzard wasn't the first at anything, they just learned from the successful features of other games and combined it very well.
    Sierra On-Line was the first ones to implement instances as far as I know, in The Realm Online.

    I know of lot the RPG characteristics (gear upgrades, levels, talent trees, quests) grew out of, well, RPG's. But what about the notion that certain roles needed to be filled in order to take down more powerful bosses?

    And then some other minor things: mounts, auction houses, professions.

    I think it helps me when I'm evaluating a game to understand its own place in the genesis of what we consider to be an MMO, and whether or not is has played (or might play) an important, influential role or if it is just another expression of the same game features we've already experienced.

    Thanks!
    MMORPG's originally came from MUD's.
    Basically text based RPG's, that then became MORPG as technology advanced and then finally MMORPG's with the release of Neverwinter Nights.
    Most of the current features of standard MMORPG's probably originated from MUD's.

  3. #3
    I have been on an EQ kick latley, since I just found out its going F2P, but a lot of those were invented by Sony with EQ. Instancing started there as far as im concerned. Imagain in WoW if Ragnaros was a static, world boss and anyone on the server could kill him with a raid, and he only respawned once every 7 days. Thats how it was in EQ back in the Planes of Power...sucked. Im outta time to write more but so many things came from EQ, im sure the AH started there as well.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ighox View Post
    MMORPG's originally came from MUD's.
    and before that from BBS Doors games.

    Many elements that define the genre, were present in Legend of the Red Dragon, and its actually surprising at how few actual 'innovations' have been made to the genre since then, aside from those based almost entirely in hardware leaps and bounds.

  5. #5
    Everquest 1 was where WoW got their UI idea, which to me is another reason EQ1 was the best game ever.

    See the similarities?

    Free-To-Play is the future.

  6. #6
    That's actually shockingly hard to answer. What was the first thing to use instancing? Almost every video game ever (only asteroids and space invaders) uses it, even Donkey Kong. Different levels are pretty much instances; a part of the game world separated by being built entirely separate from the other parts of the world and usually divided by a loading screen. Who thought to use this for MMOs? I have no idea, it seems very basic to me but it's an innovation I'm very used to so I'm not the best person to judge.
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  7. #7
    Mechagnome Sterilize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trakanonn View Post
    Everquest 1 was where WoW got their UI idea, which to me is another reason EQ1 was the best game ever.

    See the similarities?

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  8. #8
    Deleted
    Seems like a good place to throw this in, which game started the trend of green -> blue -> purple being the colour order for item superiority. It seems to have become the norm over the majority of MMO's as well as some RPG's.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Gibbz View Post
    Seems like a good place to throw this in, which game started the trend of green -> blue -> purple being the colour order for item superiority. It seems to have become the norm over the majority of MMO's as well as some RPG's.
    Green is just seen as good.
    Royal Blue is self explanatory
    Western culture has long used purple to mark things of the highest value as Roman Emperors wore purple togas as a badge of office.
    One day I look forward to seeing full grown adults realize that their averse reactions to levity and positive/contemplative expressions of emotion are a cry for therapy.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Gibbz View Post
    Seems like a good place to throw this in, which game started the trend of green -> blue -> purple being the colour order for item superiority. It seems to have become the norm over the majority of MMO's as well as some RPG's.
    Diablo uses blue > yellow > gold. With green and orange thrown in there somewhere, depending on your value of said item.

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Taros's Avatar
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    Ultima Online came before EQ.

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-31 at 08:14 AM ----------

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...r_online_games

  12. #12
    Rough understanding of MMO progression goes like this:
    MUDs (mainframe/unix systems at universities) -> Roguelikes / MUDS / BBS door games -> Island of Kesmai (Compuserve) -> Neverwinter Nights (AOL) -> Ultima Online -> Everquest -> WoW + contemporaries -> current crop of '2nd gen' MMOs (Rift, SW:TOR, forthcoming GW2).

    There's no real definitive break or sudden period of revolution. Every generation is an iterative improvement on the last, incorporating lessons learned and trying to introduce small innovations.

    Rift world events are heavily influenced by attempts from previous MMOs who had lesser success: Matrix Online, DAoC, Warhammer Online. SW:TOR tries to draw strong first person narratives into the MMO fold. Guild Wars 2 has alot of the MMO conventions, but is trying to replace the holy trinity class balance model.

    You can point to any specific feature and function and argue 'i remember when Anarchy Online invented that!!!' but the industry is very incestuous. Diablo 2 wasn't really an MMO, but alot of lessons learned from Diablo around loot and grouping found their way into WoW too. I can even find gameplay elements in MMOs today taken from BBS door games like Tradewars 2002 years ago (the spirital precursor to EVE, arguably).

  13. #13
    High Overlord Buff's Avatar
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    Yaulp = 30 sec STR buff or something like that.

    To me, Most MMO features came from EverQuest, when they first started instancing in Lost Dungeons of Norrath, im pretty confident they were first ones our with it. Everything originated from MUD as the first ORPG.

    edit: Never played Ultima Online, was that one of those overhead played games?
    Last edited by Buff; 2012-01-31 at 03:14 PM.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sterilize View Post
    The hell does "Yaulp" do?
    Guessing its a reference to Walt Whitman

    Tried to post a link to scene from Dead Poets Society but not enough posts.

    Its funny so much if this news to me. I don't think I've come across much discussion of "who came up with what" that didn't devolve into "my game is better than yours."

    I also think its easy, when you look at how these games evolved, to see why it has been so hard for any game maker to break away from some of the watershed characteristics of MMO's. Creating a game non hotkey-based mmo, for example, would be one hell of a risk. I guess AoC tried that to an extent and didnt see it pan out all that well.

  15. #15
    I think so too that Lost Duneons of Norrath started instancing, and the auction house started as 'the bazaar' in Everquest's Luclin expansion if I am not mistaken.

  16. #16
    I always thought, EQ1 was first with the instances

  17. #17
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by probert View Post
    Rough understanding of MMO progression goes like this:
    MUDs (mainframe/unix systems at universities) -> Roguelikes / MUDS / BBS door games -> Island of Kesmai (Compuserve) -> Neverwinter Nights (AOL) -> Ultima Online -> Everquest -> WoW + contemporaries -> current crop of '2nd gen' MMOs (Rift, SW:TOR, forthcoming GW2).

    There's no real definitive break or sudden period of revolution. Every generation is an iterative improvement on the last, incorporating lessons learned and trying to introduce small innovations.

    Rift world events are heavily influenced by attempts from previous MMOs who had lesser success: Matrix Online, DAoC, Warhammer Online. SW:TOR tries to draw strong first person narratives into the MMO fold. Guild Wars 2 has alot of the MMO conventions, but is trying to replace the holy trinity class balance model.

    You can point to any specific feature and function and argue 'i remember when Anarchy Online invented that!!!' but the industry is very incestuous. Diablo 2 wasn't really an MMO, but alot of lessons learned from Diablo around loot and grouping found their way into WoW too. I can even find gameplay elements in MMOs today taken from BBS door games like Tradewars 2002 years ago (the spirital precursor to EVE, arguably).
    Rift and SWTOR aren't next Gen MMO's. They're WoW (which is EQ + Features) + Features. Evolutionary.

    Guild Wars 2 and Secret World are Next Gen MMO's. They're actually changing shit up.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Blznsmri View Post
    Rift and SWTOR aren't next Gen MMO's. They're WoW (which is EQ + Features) + Features. Evolutionary.

    Guild Wars 2 and Secret World are Next Gen MMO's. They're actually changing shit up.
    This. Adding voiced dialogues to WoW formula doesn't make the game "next-gen". In fact, SWTOR right now is closer to vanilla wow in terms of features. Hardly innovative.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Blznsmri View Post
    Rift and SWTOR aren't next Gen MMO's. They're WoW (which is EQ + Features) + Features. Evolutionary.

    Guild Wars 2 and Secret World are Next Gen MMO's. They're actually changing shit up.
    This is true, not to say Rift and SW:TOR aren't fun games, but they are not a new generation, just the younger and hopefully better kids of the current generation.

    I dont think GW2 is going to meet the hype, and Secret World is somehow under the radar... oh well, we will see what happens.

    I still think MUDs were the first real 'MMOs' since iirc with BBS's you couldn't tell who was online? I only used one and only for about a month so I might be wrong there.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Blznsmri View Post
    Rift and SWTOR aren't next Gen MMO's. They're WoW (which is EQ + Features) + Features. Evolutionary.

    Guild Wars 2 and Secret World are Next Gen MMO's. They're actually changing shit up.
    Should wait until after release with saying that, Rift/WAR etc also claimed to be next-gen revolutionary games.

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