When is it ok to be bad

[jupiter11600]

Just saw this post and registered to respond. The whole "Bad" thing needs to be separated from some players. There are players that do try very much but some circumstances don't allow them to be topping the charts or tanking hm raids.

Bad should be saved for the players that just don't care. I have had multiple days were my health issues make me not exactly in top form and been raged at for not being super fast, or topping the charts. Does not mean i am not trying, Just means i would still like to play wow as it's something i enjoy on those rough periods. I can still tank and heal a heroic just fine, Just might not be as fast as most like.

I have a friend who has issues as well, as soon as you tell him the fight, He'll do it like a pro and exactly as told, but he's not able to be on vent and such so has been raged at. Problem is he's deaf and we still have not figured out how to get vent to work for him :P

People in wow need to be a bit less fast to call someone bad. The dungeon gets done, and people are trying, i figure we're good to go. Some of us love WoW and other video games, But being called bad when your trying and perhaps under geared or something, Just isn't fun. Now the tank i healed with all agi gems as a warrior last night, Feel free to call him bad :P

[Deleted]

Don't even know where to start. I've met so many people through the LFD who are too dumb to be alive.

[Halabash]

This goes for me. I have no problem playing with average players, or even below average. What I do have a problem with is people that are elitist, when they themselves are bad or if they absolutely refuse to get better or receive help with the game. As if spending 10 minutes talking to me or going to EJ is going to kill you. I'd go into a rant paragraphs long so I'll stop myself here.

hmmm, this is interesting so you are saying that some players "think" they are good but really aren't and this is the bad player that ruins that game. I can see that, I can see how that is very annoying, how do we know we are the ones they should listen to, to get better I mean. Jlopez707 I like your perspective, but even when I played on a regular basis, I didn't feel comfortable telling someone how to play, they wouldn't get it the way I got it cause i did it on my own.

[Dedweight]

It's never OK to be bad.

Excluding the rotation of a class I'd say it's ok to be bad as long as there is some form of improvement the next two or three attempts. If you died to one boss mechanic and continue to do so at the exact same time or earlier in the fight you're just wasting my time as well as everyone elses.

[Halabash]

found this at ej thought is was interesting and lends some credence to the idea that even at the top there are "bad" players
http://elitistjerks.com/blogs/107521...pphiron_event/

[Hraklea]

Everyone is free not to be a "hardcore" gamer. While I agree that bad players ruin the game for good players, I think that the game designers are responsible for putting good and bad players together.

Getting lvl 85 in WoW doesn't require any skill, it is a pure time spending task. Applying in "Looking for Heroic Dungeon" neither. Blaming "casual" players for Blizzard retardment is unfair.

"Bad players deserves to see the high level content" is a valid argument, maybe Blizzard should create "easy difficulty" servers. But there's no excuse to ask good players to find out a way to avoid newbies because Blizzard doesn't want to take that responsability. I don't play games like these anymore.

[Gandrake]

when i can get us through an instance with my proness even though i feel like crying because someone in the group is so terrible

also, when you're getting carried

[Autofollow]

He's got a point, ya know? It's not rocket science here. The game is very easy, especially with how Blizzard has made it, and with all of the resources available to you (wowhead/mmo/WoWforums/Ej) you have more than enough to learn your rotation the moment you hit 85. Sure you won't have it 100% perfect, but I'm sure that's not what the person you quoted meant. To me acing it is having the fundamentals of the rotation down, whether you're screwing up because you don't have enough gear or because you don't have proper awareness that's a whole different story. I don't expect people to be perfect with those things the moment they hit 85, but they should aleast have a pretty darn good grasp of their rotation.

I think you're assuming that the entire gaming community is aware of these sites to begin with. Since Blizzard doesn't publicize the sites in any of the game hints and tips, tutorials, or loading screens there isn't any other place to get this info other than in a guild with people that already know it. If you are in a family/casual guild it goes to reason that a lot of them don't know this either. Many people just ignore trade chat since it's mostly full of people complaining at each other anyway, and newer players don't want to get involved because it's intimidating to them.

If all someone has done is quest to get to 85 I'm betting they don't really know a rotation for 5 man or raids since you wouldn't typically need all of the abilities in your arsenal. Rotation is something learned once you get in to those types of encounters. Even if you were to level by dungeon grinding, in anything pre-Cata zones stuff usually dies so fast that rotation isn't necessary. I see what you're saying, I just don't think it's as black and white as that.

[Hraklea]

It's never OK to be bad.

If you can't ace your rotation by the time you're 85 you should delete the game and go play with dolls.

What if someone thinks that you suck, would you delete your own account and go play dolls?

[Rolard]

He's got a point, ya know? It's not rocket science here. The game is very easy, especially with how Blizzard has made it, and with all of the resources available to you (wowhead/mmo/WoWforums/Ej) you have more than enough to learn your rotation the moment you hit 85. Sure you won't have it 100% perfect, but I'm sure that's not what the person you quoted meant. To me acing it is having the fundamentals of the rotation down, whether you're screwing up because you don't have enough gear or because you don't have proper awareness that's a whole different story. I don't expect people to be perfect with those things the moment they hit 85, but they should aleast have a pretty darn good grasp of their rotation.

Please tell me where in the game does it say, "Hey you hit 85, be sure to check out (insert wow help site here) so you can learn to play your class correctly!".

It doesn't. People learn at their own pace. I had no idea about any of that shit when I first hit 70 in BC. When I level new characters, I skim the EJ page for their spec.. why? Cause I like to kill shit as fast as possible. But that's not always what it's like for new players, 2 different hunters specced Survival might say, "Man I love how pretty Explosive shot is, I'll use that." Another might say "I love kill command." Just because you and I go out and try and find the best way to play our class, doesn't mean everyone wants to or even knows how to.

[Night fall]

For some people like myself, I've been hated on for doing lower DPS than the normal expected DPS from a Survival Hunter. I level'd 1-85 as Beast Master because it was fun. I was told Survival was the best DPS spec for raiding so, to better myself and in turn trying to better the raid, I changed specs. I've done both raid finder raids and doing roughly 15k DPS. I know it's bad, but I've only been Survival for 2 days and learning everything on the fly. I dont have a guildie to turn to and ask questions about this spec, so I'm trying to learn it on my own from reading.

All that being said, I get flamed in the raids for being "shitty dps", "bad dps", "WTF noob", try and explain myself and get "wtfe bad is bad"... and eventuallly booted. Now why would anyone want to continue trying to better themselves for people like that? I dont need acceptance from them, I could care less about that, but I would welcome a helping hand every now and then. The hate doesnt hurt my feelings, but it is frustrating when I get into a RF and get booted.

[xsistor]

when trying to attract chicks

[Rolard]

That does make a lot of sense to be honest and I never really though about it, but still it seems like a sort of laziness from people. You can simply google something like "wow help sites" which actually wouldn't be the safest thing, but I digress. You can always ask around in guild chat or in general/trade chat. If someone is truly worried about the opinions of someone else calling them bad and thinking their main is bad, it takes all of 5 minutes to make a human and run it to Stormwind. Also, the WoW site offers some help for beginnings that could get you started and if not, someone will definitely link a post to EJ or one of the well known sites. Again, if you want anonimity, selecting that random level 1 as your posting character is all you need to do.

Why would someone think they have to read a guide before playing a game at all? If I play CoD I don't go on the computer and type in "CoD help sites". If i play Super Mario World I don't go on the computer and type in "Super Mario World help sites". Honestly, try thinking like a new player thinks. If you go from 1-85 without any trouble, you're going to think you were doing something right. It's not lazy, it's just how things work. They don't know that leveling is easy, they just think they figured out what to do and how to do it. Thinking that people automatically assume they're doing something wrong and should google how to play better is just not good.

[davep]

The point of leveling is to learn your character in the process, if you can't figure out how to play by the time you hit level 85 then you are doing something wrong.

[Halabash]

Basically, yes. Until you can teach yourself to not be bad. Regardless of you learning yourself, one person teaching you, or one hundred people teaching you... if you're bad, you're bad. To be honest, I feel like you're being defensive because this is hitting a little close to home. I don't mean to offend, we've all been there. I honestly don't see what's the big deal? People can be bad at a video game, contrary to popular belief not every WoW player is a special sparkly rainbow pony of sunshine.

Just wanted to edit to say that I basically taught myself WoW at one point. I didn't really bother asking my friend for much help because back then I was one of this "no let me do it" kind of kids since I started the game young, at around 12-13ish. I'll admit that I was bad, I was God awful. I clicked and keyboard turned like a champ, yes that includes extensive s-keying periods. Eventually though I taught myself enough to be good, basically how...not quite everyone, but a lot of people are. If you're bad then you're bad. Doesn't mean you'll always be bad.

well ill tell you what, I did stink at the game when I first started, I didn't figure out macros until MC the 1st time it was out. I tanked as a warrior, I truly loved the job. I quit came back for bc, rolled arms relearned the class, pvp'd primarily, fell in love with the come and go style of gameplay dps offers rather than a dedicated log in all the time that raid tanking offered. I left again and came back in wrath rolled 2 paladins one tank and one dps, then just commited to one server and one paladin ret obvious choice, got to naxx as dps down KT then quit, came back after argent tourney regeared up skipped pretty much all content between naxx and icc built the non legendary SM and then quit again. Each time I quit it really came down to the community being pretty crummy and not being very helpful. After a while I just didn't see why I would subject myself everyday to playing with people who enjoyed being rude and unappreciative.

I never competed for world 1sts or even server 1sts most of did not have the time to play like that, but we raided on a regular basis and that was fine, in the last time I played I transferred to a new server as the raid leader actually purchased my transfer on the word of good friend of mine into his guild. I logged on in time for the raid got my mats, mind you i was already geared at this point for icc with my axe and 4 of 4 normal for my ret set, my prior server the hm guilds were not recruiting, would not have mattered anyway. I get into my 1st run with this new group and someone looks at me and says "who is this?" I tell him who I am, then someone chimes in "someone looking to be carried", then I get pissed b/c we haven't pulled anything and they make that judgement, then the mt says"oh wait he is pretty much done with gear", I got a spot b/c a regular did not appear to be coming, then the regular came on, they asked politely if I wouldn't mind sitting one out, I told them no problem even though I had already accepted the teleport and gotten saved for the week to the instance in which I had not done anything but show up early and leave just as early. They felt like asses that was my last log in.

[nixcookies]

That does make a lot of sense to be honest and I never really though about it, but still it seems like a sort of laziness from people. You can simply google something like "wow help sites" which actually wouldn't be the safest thing, but I digress. You can always ask around in guild chat or in general/trade chat. If someone is truly worried about the opinions of someone else calling them bad and thinking their main is bad, it takes all of 5 minutes to make a human and run it to Stormwind. Also, the WoW site offers some help for beginnings that could get you started and if not, someone will definitely link a post to EJ or one of the well known sites. Again, if you want anonimity, selecting that random level 1 as your posting character is all you need to do.

I understand what you're saying about there being many channels to help new players but I wouldn't say it's instinctive to go online and check for guides on how to play you're class especially since World of Warcraft is typically a players first mmo and they're use to console gaming where everything you need to know can be picked up swiftly in-game or in the manual.

Another thing that might contribute to a players 'ignorant' attitude (through no fault of their own) is that they may not understand when some uses terms like 'EJ' and 'mmochamp'. I know this sound ridiculous but I remember when I was a new player and these words where thrown about, I had no clue what they meant.

[Digglett]

When you're new.

[Rennix]

When it is followed by the term mamajama, otherwise I see no advantage to being bad. Sometimes being clueless can help but rarely.

[strangebreed]

It's ok to be bad at all times, you paid for the game you may do and be what you want, just be prepared for the consequences.

[StaeleAilar]

Being "bad" and being "new" are two VERY different things.

Bad players are the kind who walk into any aspect of the game, think they are doing good and are really performing terribly and then deny doing so whenever they are asked if they need help or are given suggestions for improvement.

"new" players are the ones who are, well... new. They HAVEN'T had experience with their toons in various aspects of the game, they are LEARNING. However, what seperates them from the "bad" players is that most will happily accept some tips and advice on how they can perform (as long as it's not shoved down their throat with accompanying profanities and name calling) and will also ask questions when they are unsure so as to better themselves.

I have NEVER called or referred to people who are clearly new to the game as being bad and do not intend to and will often go out of my way to give quick run downs of boss mechanics and the like in raids and dungeons so they know the basics and hey, if they die, they die, if we wipe we wipe. That's part of the learning curve. Comparing them with the "bad" players who, in their full epic gear, sit in the dungeons going "LOL IM SO AWSUM!" when they do next to no damage/heals/can't tank and try to blame it on everyone else annoys me enough to force me to interject. Although, that may also be my personality trait to pretty much always side with and defend the underdog. Either way.