Thread: Rogues

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  1. #21
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    Rogue's are definitely one of the better melee classes, especially at the right team. Managed to pull 200 higher rating as rogue+mage compared to priest+warr. And thats with better gear and better skills on the priest+warr combo. Reroll DK and you're probably better off though.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woop Woop View Post
    Feral druid.
    Anyway yes, rogues are OP and probably will be until MoP.
    No, not even feral anymore.

    ---------- Post added 2012-02-01 at 09:07 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathern View Post
    Probably in MoP.

    They're insanely strong and anyone disagreeing is wrong, but it's due to pve gear, not their mastery.
    Even without vial or 2p, or pve gear in general, we're/they're (depending on whether i use my hunter or rogue ) still way over the top. The room for error is huge, and without significant error, rogues are far ahead of most classes.

    And it isn't the mastery that contributes to it, no, it's the 30% extra agility that provides some sick scaling. When sub is the highest single target rogue spec in pve, and also has the most utility of any spec in the game, something is fucked up.
    Last edited by mea; 2012-02-01 at 08:09 AM.

  3. #23
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    I'm a decent rogue myself and I played for a long time in PvP and PvE and I must say that I don't think rogues are OP at all.
    In patch 4.2 I could still kill a Blood DK if I timed my cd's right but now even when I dodge their Deathstrike, they still heal in patch 4.3 so no, Rogues can't kill Blood DK's unless the DK lags out or something.

    As for Frost mages, no way we can beat them. Whenever I duel a frost mage they seem to get a polymorph off on me and that's where the rapefest begins. I tried every tactic to beat them and counter their cd's but at some point during the fight the rogue will only have Shadowstep available and we know we can't use it to get close cause they will use one of their 6 freezes or blink and once they deepfreeze us, we will definatly get hell a lot of burst damage thrown at us.

    As for Feral druids, they just go bear form and tank us out, we can't beat them unless we get a lucky stun on them when they change form to cyclone us or something.

    Guys, don't forget that a Warlock started this thread, probably one of the easiest targets of a Rogue unless they are really good. Check Mercader on youtube vs a warlock, those fights are so close. It all depends on skill and knowing how to play your own class. When you get down to 45% HP during a kidney shot, then the Rogue has used all his offensive CD's to burst you down in the beginning, it's not that crazy...I mean.. What would happen if a retri paladin uses his wings and guardian etc while im stunned and does his oneshot macro, do you think I will only lose 10% hp?

    Anyway..I think the people working at Blizzard knows when a class is balanced or not since they are monitoring the damage and they test out the classes themselves. Just try to practise a lot and study the other classes's abilities and figure out a counter, you will become a lot better.

    Btw, no offense to the warlock and i'm not trying to be mean or anything, i'm just saying that just cause a rogue bursted you down ( he probably even had lucky procs with landslide etc ) doesn't mean you have to say theyre OP.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaheer12a View Post
    Looks like a rogue who doesn't know his class so well then.

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=31220

    Passive 'mastery' bonus you get when you choose sub.
    Has absolutely NOTHING to do with mastery so why don't you stop being a smartass.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by zaheer12a View Post
    So when do rogues get balanced? I think pretty much everyone (high or low rated) will agree that rogues are insanely overpowered at the moment. Before 4.3 they were good, but not really OP. THey have the utility (stuns, slows) and they have the survivability (cloak, vanish) and since 4.3 they also have insane damage. This all has to do with the extra agility bonus they get from mastery (passive ability called Sinister Calling) and it needs to be tuned down. Even rogues who aren't that good can beat a skilled player. And at the moment rogues have NO COUNTER at all, as opposed to any other class. Maybe blood DK, but let's not start about those.

    What have other people to say about rogues and their state at the moment?
    rogues have always been insanely over powered. they always have been, always will be. it is the way of the world... of warcraft.

  6. #26
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    Ive got all 10 current classes at lvl 85, besides my noob knight and rogue all are good geared, 3 characters are 2200 rating + and I can't beat a rogue in 1v1 unless they are geared as hell and just stand still. so I highly agree with him!

  7. #27
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    soo? one or two classes will always be OP in pvp , has always been like that and most likely wil always be likethat,
    remember many years ago rogues were OP, then a patch came and the possibility to kill a warrior went from 95% chance to 0.0001% chanse, same with warlocks, then mages are OP in periods aswell, like hunters, druids etc.. i am no superproo pvp player but have been doing pvp since the start of battlegrounds so many years ago.

    Yes not that superfun to meet the class that is currently OP, but thats how it works.

  8. #28
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    Every patch new FotM is brewed. I don't know why are you crying about it every single time it happens.

    Thanks to Vial and free legendary rogue is the best melee class in the game. We are aware of it. Blizzard is aware of it (hence "fix" to vial).

    Will they fix it on time? No. As they didn't fix sl/sl locks in s3 and s4, as they didn't fix DK's in s5 and s6, as they didn't fix Ele shaman in s7 and s8.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaheer12a View Post
    Looks like a rogue who doesn't know his class so well then.

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=31220

    Passive 'mastery' bonus you get when you choose sub.
    i dont really see how you would come about "mastery" because this is just a passive effect you get for speccing into sub a sub rogues mastery increases the damage on his finishing moves

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by zaheer12a View Post
    So when do rogues get balanced? I think pretty much everyone (high or low rated) will agree that rogues are insanely overpowered at the moment. Before 4.3 they were good, but not really OP. THey have the utility (stuns, slows) and they have the survivability (cloak, vanish) and since 4.3 they also have insane damage. This all has to do with the extra agility bonus they get from mastery (passive ability called Sinister Calling) and it needs to be tuned down. Even rogues who aren't that good can beat a skilled player. And at the moment rogues have NO COUNTER at all, as opposed to any other class. Maybe blood DK, but let's not start about those.

    What have other people to say about rogues and their state at the moment?
    Ok, so I'm just going to clear some things up.

    Sinisters calling actually gives a rogue less agility in pvp gear in subtlety specc then if he had been in combat specc, (which gives 30% +ap flat, passive)
    So nothing wrong here.

    The only thing that makes a rogue OP is Vial of Shadows, nothing else.
    Why do you think blizzard almost never changes rogues? Rarely nerfs them, rarely buffs them.
    Its because they think rogues are very balanced, which they have stated themselves.

    I just love how when a class gets OP people call out random stuff that needs to be nerfed, even if the class has had it for ages.
    I laugh every time this happens and it always does.

  11. #31
    Has anyone else noticed that Subtlety is a Rogue's best PVE (generally) and PVP spec? Just from that statement alone, there is a huge problem with that. When the best PVP spec is going to do more damage than any other spec in PVE, you know there's something wrong with that. Assassination might as well not even exist anymore.

    Oh and Rogues are not FOTM. They're FOTG: Flavor of the Game.
    Last edited by Reith; 2012-02-01 at 11:07 AM.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Has anyone else noticed that Subtlety is a Rogue's best PVE (generally) and PVP spec? Just from that statement alone, there is a huge problem with that. When the best PVP spec is going to do more damage than any other spec in PVE, you know there's something wrong with that. Assassination might as well not even exist anymore.

    Oh and Rogues are not FOTM. They're FOTG: Flavor of the Game.
    That's what i commented on as well earlier. When the spec with the most utility in the game is also the classes' highest single target dps spec, shit is messed up. : p

    More that i think about it, 12 energy per recup tick should go, and another talent be spread over 2 talents to retain the amount of talent slots. That or honor among thieves - silly that finishers are this strong when combo points are close to free.

  13. #33
    Only thing that bothers me about rogues are the enormous Ambush crits. I dont rage though, i laugh at how awesomely my face was just ripped off and wish i had my rogue geared.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaheer12a View Post
    So when do rogues get balanced? I think pretty much everyone (high or low rated) will agree that rogues are insanely overpowered at the moment. Before 4.3 they were good, but not really OP. THey have the utility (stuns, slows) and they have the survivability (cloak, vanish) and since 4.3 they also have insane damage. This all has to do with the extra agility bonus they get from mastery (passive ability called Sinister Calling) and it needs to be tuned down. Even rogues who aren't that good can beat a skilled player. And at the moment rogues have NO COUNTER at all, as opposed to any other class. Maybe blood DK, but let's not start about those.



    What have other people to say about rogues and their state at the moment?

    Balance for BG? You must be joking, right? You're not even playing arenas.



    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Has anyone else noticed that Subtlety is a Rogue's best PVE (generally) and PVP spec? Just from that statement alone, there is a huge problem with that. When the best PVP spec is going to do more damage than any other spec in PVE, you know there's something wrong with that. Assassination might as well not even exist anymore.

    Oh and Rogues are not FOTM. They're FOTG: Flavor of the Game.

    The both sub pve and sub pvp are drastically diffrent talent wise, just fyi. You will not be even remotly close to top charts with your pvp spec so sorry, point invalid.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avell View Post
    Balance for BG? You must be joking, right? You're not even playing arenas.






    The both sub pve and sub pvp are drastically diffrent talent wise, just fyi. You will not be even remotly close to top charts with your pvp spec so sorry, point invalid.
    They are different, but not drastically. You just don't take precicion/relentless strikes/serrated blades in a pvp spec.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mea View Post
    They are different, but not drastically. You just don't take precicion/relentless strikes/serrated blades in a pvp spec.
    With that statement you just proved you have no idea what are you talking about. gratz.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by zaheer12a View Post
    So when do rogues get balanced? I think pretty much everyone (high or low rated) will agree that rogues are insanely overpowered at the moment. Before 4.3 they were good, but not really OP. THey have the utility (stuns, slows) and they have the survivability (cloak, vanish) and since 4.3 they also have insane damage. This all has to do with the extra agility bonus they get from mastery (passive ability called Sinister Calling) and it needs to be tuned down. Even rogues who aren't that good can beat a skilled player. And at the moment rogues have NO COUNTER at all, as opposed to any other class. Maybe blood DK, but let's not start about those.

    What have other people to say about rogues and their state at the moment?
    Rogues ARE balanced. You notice there were precious little "anti-rogue" threads prior to 4.3 and even those that did appear usually had non-rogues stating how balanced rogues currently were. What happend in 4.3? Stuipd PvE trinket and easily obtainable daggers. Rogues in PvP gear and daggers are absolutely fine.

    Aside from the MS buff that affected other classes also, there were no rogue buffs in 4.3

    A bad player will not beat a skilled player. My average geared Shadowpriest should get steamrollerd by warriors, but guess what, an average one turns up and I hand him his A$$.

    A rogue will not bear an equal frost mage or hunter either.

    If you want to talk "ratings" also, you might want to look at the state of Warlocks in 3's. They, just like rogues, have access to several 2.5k+ rated combos.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by redderz1 View Post
    Rogues ARE balanced. You notice there were precious little "anti-rogue" threads prior to 4.3 and even those that did appear usually had non-rogues stating how balanced rogues currently were. What happend in 4.3? Stuipd PvE trinket and easily obtainable daggers. Rogues in PvP gear and daggers are absolutely fine.

    Aside from the MS buff that affected other classes also, there were no rogue buffs in 4.3

    A bad player will not beat a skilled player. My average geared Shadowpriest should get steamrollerd by warriors, but guess what, an average one turns up and I hand him his A$$.

    A rogue will not bear an equal frost mage or hunter either.

    If you want to talk "ratings" also, you might want to look at the state of Warlocks in 3's. They, just like rogues, have access to several 2.5k+ rated combos.

    You're joking, right?
    You say rogues are balanced if they use only pvp gear...but hey.. NOBODY OF THEM DOES IT. Everyone use the god-damn vial-sh*t trinket n stuff.
    Seriously, open your eyes and stop being so ignorant that rogues are balanced.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loop View Post
    You're joking, right?
    You say rogues are balanced if they use only pvp gear...but hey.. NOBODY OF THEM DOES IT. Everyone use the god-damn vial-sh*t trinket n stuff.
    Seriously, open your eyes and stop being so ignorant that rogues are balanced.
    Woah hold on hold on, You have to have a argument before the countering the guy at least and calling him Ignorant. Explain how they are OP etc yada yada and myself personally as a BG hero yes I am broken because of 1 talent in my eyes at least

    Find weakness

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by HnB View Post
    To answer the OP question : Yes Sub rogues are pretty much OP. We can't lose duels unless we fuck up or get fucked by lag. And the only hard counter to a rogue is another rogue. Blood dk's are way too easy to kite.

    What makes us OP? Find weakness. Simple as that. Without that debuff are damage would be decent at best
    . As soon as you got the debuff on you you can expect to take a lot of damage.
    Without FW up, my Cata Dagger'd rogue with 5 parts cata armour backstab CRITS your qeually geared resto shaman for in the region of 8-9k. CRIT. How is that even approaching "Decent damage" when the same rogue (close to 4.7k resi) can take 25k howling blasts, 28k frost strikes, 28k+ Frost bolts, 22k ice lances?

    With FW up your looking at backstab and ambush damage in the region of 17-21k.

    So , when youve blown your cooldowns, pumped out the damage, been rediculessly OP whilst bursting, CC chain breaks down momentarily and BOOM. 80k Heal inc.

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