[Megathread] Mass Effect 3

[Dhrizzle]

In the universe of ours. There is most likely an element like Element Zero. We most likely cannot comprehend an element like it. Even in Star Trek they have the Omega Protocol because of interaction with a substance like Element Zero. Mass Effect Fields are likely the result of extremely dangerous research that decimated several planets while trying to find out how to manipulate it. The only reason that the races were able to use it was because it was essentially given to them, instructions and how not to handle it.

Calling it space magic is not correct, since it is something that is possible. Just because we cannot comprehend how a substance like it can exist, doesn't mean it's magic.

I'm not saying it's magic because it's incomprehensible, I'm saying it's magic because they pulled it out of their backsides as a convenient and science-sounding way of making their space opera work. Most sci-fi works on at least a tiny bit of space magic; some try to stick as close as possible to currently acceptable theories and really explore the ramifications of the technology. Most, like Star Trek, gloss over the details and focus on the stories it makes possible. Mass Effect exists on the softer side of the scale, using comic-book style logic because it translates well into video games, hence we have a substance that allows FTL travel in both warp-drive and worm-hole style, creates artificial gravity, enhances (enchants?) weaponry, and gives people magical powers.

[Deleted]

Calling it space magic is not correct, since it is something that is possible.

Magic is possible.

[May90]

With recent Higgs boson discovery, it is possible from Particle theory that there is also "anti-Higgs" boson, which would subtract mass of a field rather than add to it, so theoretically it would be possible to create fields with mass below zero, and that would be something like what Eezo does. Only practically it would take all the Solar system energy to maintain such a field even for a few seconds. So, yeah, we could say that what is shown in the game is magic. Unless there are some laws in the Universe we do not yet understand and they allow for negative mass to exist. Which is quite possible, if you ask me.

Magic is possible.

If you define magic as something we cannot explain physically but that exists, then yes, there is much more magic in the world than non-magic. Like, I've always loved coffee, but today I drank a bit of it and spat in disgust. Magic!

[Deleted]

If you define magic as something we cannot explain physically but that exists, then yes, there is much more magic in the world than non-magic.

Magic or sorcery is an attempt to understand, experience and influence the world using rituals, symbols, actions, gestures and language.
Or as we call it today - science.

[May90]

Magic or sorcery is an attempt to understand, experience and influence the world using rituals, symbols, actions, gestures and language.
Or as we call it today - science.

Well, I would say that magic is everything we use or observe but do not logically understand, while science is everything we have some explanation for. For example, healing cancer in a modern medical center is science because we understand quite a lot about how it works. Healing cancer in shaman's lodge somewhere in southern Africa is magic because we fail to understand how the process of healing actually goes, and even shaman doesn't have a real explanation of it, he just knows from experience that it gets the result. However, science is usually blind for such cases and tries to deny it, claiming that there is no real evidence of this, that it is a placebo and other such crap.

I am a scientist myself, and this side of science really bugs me. "We are scientists. We can explain a lot of things. Things that we cannot explain do not exist and are fabricated by frauds!". Really, science resembles religion in this aspect.

Anyway, what was shown in Mass Effect can very well be possible in the real world. Not everything, of course. For one, Reaper's signal affecting all organics the same way, regardless of the way their brain works, is a pure cheese.

[Mormolyce]

ME is as realistic as the bounds of science fiction with a dash of fantasy permits.

They did quite a good job with all the glossaries giving it a feeling of being "real". Even if they obviously cheated here and there for narrative purposes. It's nice how they essentially tied all of the tech back to mass effect fields, so you only have to suspend your disbelief once :P

[Deleted]

Well, I would say that magic is everything we use or observe but do not logically understand

That would be miracles.

[Kaelwryn]

That would be miracles.

Magnets, how do they work?!

[May90]

ME is as realistic as the bounds of science fiction with a dash of fantasy permits.

They did quite a good job with all the glossaries giving it a feeling of being "real". Even if they obviously cheated here and there for narrative purposes. It's nice how they essentially tied all of the tech back to mass effect fields, so you only have to suspend your disbelief once :P

The thing is, they don't introduce anything that absolutely is impossible. The fact that we haven't found Eezo yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The fact that we haven't really observed FTL motion doesn't mean it is impossible. Of course, chances that everything is exactly as it is described in ME are next to zero. But, in their version of the world, everything is explained well and nothing contradicts to what we know today.

But then, strictly speaking, everything is possible at all. Magic? No problem, we just haven't discovered it yet! Force? There are just no force sensitive people yet, but they may come in the future! The list may go on and on, but what is unique in Mass Effect is that it provides a fluid transition from modern physics to the predicted future physics. Unlike, say, Star Wars, where it is not clear at all why we here, on Earth, haven't discovered Force yet, why our lasers do not block each other...

[Vankrys]

The thing is, they don't introduce anything that absolutely is impossible. The fact that we haven't found Eezo yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The fact that we haven't really observed FTL motion doesn't mean it is impossible. Of course, chances that everything is exactly as it is described in ME are next to zero. But, in their version of the world, everything is explained well and nothing contradicts to what we know today.

But then, strictly speaking, everything is possible at all. Magic? No problem, we just haven't discovered it yet! Force? There are just no force sensitive people yet, but they may come in the future! The list may go on and on, but what is unique in Mass Effect is that it provides a fluid transition from modern physics to the predicted future physics. Unlike, say, Star Wars, where it is not clear at all why we here, on Earth, haven't discovered Force yet, why our lasers do not block each other...

make no mistake, this is science fiction. outside particule that have zero mass like photon, none can go close to the speed of light and none can go faster. Mass effect science is very well written of course, but that still remain fiction.

our understanding of quantum mechanic may be very incomplete, it still remain solid enough to understand limits.

[May90]

make no mistake, this is science fiction. outside particule that have zero mass like photon, none can go close to the speed of light and none can go faster. Mass effect science is very well written of course, but that still remain fiction.

OK, I work in Particle Physics, exactly about these things. There is no evidence so far that nothing can exceed the speed of light; impossibility to exceed the speed of light raises from General Relativity Theory, so every particle that exists in Minkowski space cannot exceed the speed of light since in that case it, effectively, leaves this space. However, no one has proven that every particle manifesting in our world has to move in Minkowski space. Moreover, the majority of theoretical physicists today believe that all the matter around us exists in a much more complex space and manifests in our space as simply a projection - much like 3D object manifests on a paper by projection of its light (photography). If it really is this way, then a particle can theoretically "leave" our space, then emerge again in a complete different spot, billions of light years away. And some experimental facts (very vague so far, but still) suggest that it is what really happens with all the matter.

There is a popular misconception that FTL violates the Principle of Causality. I won't get into much explanation here, but suffice to say this statement is plain wrong.

So, generally, the following can be said. According to our very limited knowledge today, there is no evidence than FTL speeds are possible. However, much like in Newton Mechanics it was believed that time is absolute everywhere and it was impossible to fly away from Earth at terrible speed and return back in a few days and find that a million years has passed, the future discoveries can shatter our modern model and expand it into a more grand scheme, in which FTL speed and even instant travel is absolutely normal, Element Zero is just one of billions elements we haven't discovered yet since they require a very specific circumstances for us to observe their influence, and, what is even more interesting, it is possible that laws of physics are not constant and change with time, in which case, essentially, everything at all is possible, provided we are lucky enough to live at a certain time.

our understanding of quantum mechanic may be very incomplete, it still remain solid enough to understand limits.

Quantum mechanics changes completely every 5-10 years or so. Just a few decades ago we believed that neutrinos had no mass, just like photons, and saying in 1950 that neutrino can have a mass would sound as absolute nonsense. Yet nowadays we keep discovering new particles that make absolutely no sense according to the previous models; luckily for us, the very foundations of quantum mechanics persist so far, but no one can say for sure they won't be proven wrong in a few years. If String Theory, one of the most popular "theories of everything" today, will be proven right, then we will have to say that we live in a 11-dimension world, which will totally destroy both General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics.

TL;DR: Science constantly changes, old laws keep being proven wrong and modified. FTL speeds are considered impossible today (provided Higgs boson doesn't have a specific antiparticle), but this can be changed any day. Please don't make science into religion and don't claim that what we know today is absolute truth; Newton claimed it as well, you know.

[Deleted]

If String Theory, one of the most popular "theories of everything" today, will be proven right, then we will have to say that we live in a 11-dimension world, which will totally destroy both General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics.

I want whatever he is smoking.

[zealo]

Magnets, how do they work?!

I think the question to ask here is why do magnetism exist, not how it works.

How it works science already figured out but its the why being the problem.

[Kaelwryn]

I think the question to ask here is why do magnetism exist, not how it works.

How it works science already figured out but its the why being the problem.

Mostly quoting that silly song by Insane Clown posse (i think?) that's all I know.

[Elim Garak]

Fucking magnetism is here for us to sing songs about it. Without it we wouldn't exist. You know as in electrons wouldn't get attracted to the nucleus, thus no atoms, no molecules, no cells, no life.

[Vankrys]

Quantum mechanics changes completely every 5-10 years or so.

it does not exactly "change", it's refine or corrected. Pauling description of molecular bonding though crude still hold water today, and LCAO approximation introduced in 1929 is still widely used to described molecular bonding.

but i totally understand what you say about science not being a religion. As a scientist, it is my ahem.. religion to keep an open mind and challenge everything i think i know. What we call "law" are experimental observations that forms a pattern.

That being said, you have to admit that applying a positive or negative current on an element to create a field that lower of increase mass (it says mass in the codex, not weight), that does very likely sound like science fiction, admittedly good science fiction, since it can explain how electric current from nervous system could also interact with it thus explaining biotic 'powers'.

[Nazrark]

I wonder what the people from BioWare would ever think if they stumbled upon our thread. Oh, I want it to be part if their blog series.

[Nerraw]

It has been an epic adventure lasting over two years now!

[Kaelwryn]

I wonder what the people from BioWare would ever think if they stumbled upon our thread. Oh, I want it to be part if their blog series.

Which part? The crazy rants or the science mumbojumbo?

[Deleted]

Which part? The crazy rants or the science mumbojumbo?

Yes.

Also, isnt it time to argue over the ending again?
I feel like the circle have gotten rather slow.