U.S. Presidential race - Democrat Discussion

[belfpala]

I know I turn friendly AI off when I play Warcraft III, or my units will end up on the other side of the map if I turn my back for a few seconds. They don't move unless I say so!

That's why they ran Rumsfeld out of the cabinet. He didn't have enough actions per minute.

[Vyxn]

So... do you think Bush gave an order every time a trigger was pulled in Iraq or Afghanistan? Or do you think he delegated authority to Rumsfeld and the Joint Chiefs, who then delegated authority to admirals and generals, who then delegated authority to... on so on.

We where at war with Iraq and Afghanistan we where not at war with Lybia it requires a direct order from the President to use Military force in a country we are not a war with

So either the president gave the order to use force like he claimed he did and it was ignored and some one from the DoD needs to be charged with disobeying an order
Or Obama lied just like he lied claiming it was caused by some you tube vid

You are trying to defend the indefensible

[belfpala]

I sent my roommate out with a grocery shopping list yesterday. When she was walking out the door I said, "Oh, and if the kale looks good, buy some of that too."

Think about it.

[Vyxn]

I sent my roommate out with a grocery shopping list yesterday. When she was walking out the door I said, "Oh, and if the kale looks good, buy some of that too."

Think about it.

As President you are the commander and chief you are required to make decisions you make tough decision with the information you have at the time you don't pass the buck to some one else to make that decision this is what leadership is only a coward will pass the buck to some one else so some one else can take the blame if it goes wrong

[belfpala]

I don't think you thought about it.

[ptwonline]

Shows you how much you know about the military they work off of direct orders they do not work off of "you do what you feel is correct" that is why the president holds the title commander and chief. If Obama didn't give a direct order one way or the other it show a big lack of leadership. any ways " do what ever is necessary to make sure the Ambassador and his staff is safe" sounds like a direct order to me

And how much more intel did the DoD need they had a drone giving them live intel they had cameras in the compound and they had real live intel from people on the ground they had more intel then what was needed how much more intel was required

The President cannot possibly approve every single military action, nor should he. otherwise why bother with the top military brass at all?

[Kalyyn]

I sent my roommate out with a grocery shopping list yesterday. When she was walking out the door I said, "Oh, and if the kale looks good, buy some of that too."

Think about it.

OH! I get it!

Is it bad that I actually spent like 10 minutes thinking about this? Probably would have helped if I had read the rest of the conversation first >.<

[Vyxn]

The President cannot possibly approve every single military action, nor should he. otherwise why bother with the top military brass at all?

The president and only the president can authorize militantly force on or in a country we are not at war with. It is the law written in the war powers act

[ptwonline]

The president and only the president can authorize militantly force on or in a country we are not at war with. It is the law written in the war powers act

Yes, he authorizes force. That does NOT mean he approves every specific military action. Do you think he hears about, helps plan, and approve every single fighter and bomber sortie? Do you think he hears about and approves every offensive action taken in Afghanistan, even if it's just a patrol?

[Dakia]

Yes, he authorizes force. That does NOT mean he approves every specific military action. Do you think he hears about, helps plan, and approve every single fighter and bomber sortie? Do you think he hears about and approves every offensive action taken in Afghanistan, even if it's just a patrol?

That isn't what he are saying at all. He is saying that the President would have to authorize action. Not that he would directly dictate the specifics of those actions.

[belfpala]

That isn't what he are saying at all. He is saying that the President would have to authorize action. Not that he would directly dictate the specifics of those actions.

Did you think about my grocery shopping list?

[ptwonline]

That isn't what he are saying at all. He is saying that the President would have to authorize action. Not that he would directly dictate the specifics of those actions.

Yes, it IS what he's saying. He responded to my post when I specifically wrote and I quote: "Obama gave them the authority to act but not a direct order to do so, leaving it up to their judgement based on the sketchy intel and the force available."

Vyxn then replied with and I quote: "Shows you how much you know about the military they work off of direct orders they do not work off of "you do what you feel is correct" "

I can't see how that can be interpreted as anything other than claiming that the military needs direct orders to act.

And in this case, based on what Sec Panetta has said, Obama DID authorize force. He did not order forces to go in though--he did leave it up to their judgement. Sec Panetta made it clear that he and the two Generals made that call, and based on the available information they decided it was too risky. This does not seem like any sort of extraordinary series of events to me. The President gave his top military brass the authority to take action if they saw fit, and they did not see fit to do so.

[Vyxn]

Yes, it IS what he's saying. He responded to my post when I specifically wrote and I quote: "Obama gave them the authority to act but not a direct order to do so, leaving it up to their judgement based on the sketchy intel and the force available."

Vyxn then replied with and I quote: "Shows you how much you know about the military they work off of direct orders they do not work off of "you do what you feel is correct" "

I can't see how that can be interpreted as anything other than claiming that the military needs direct orders to act.

And in this case, based on what Sec Panetta has said, Obama DID authorize force. He did not order forces to go in though--he did leave it up to their judgement. Sec Panetta made it clear that he and the two Generals made that call, and based on the available information they decided it was too risky. This does not seem like any sort of extraordinary series of events to me. The President gave his top military brass the authority to take action if they saw fit, and they did not see fit to do so.

And I will say this again only a coward would pass the decision on to others to either save the lives of your fellow Americans or not.
A true leader would give the direct order to either send in help or give the order to use the capability of the AC 130 gun ship that was over Benghazi or the drone
A coward would leave that decision to someone else so he wouldn't take the blame if something went wrong

Does a football coach tell the quarterback to make the decision to either go for the touch down or kick the field goal now he might ask for advise but the coach makes the final decision. That is why they are the coach because its their job to make that decision and that decision is his to either be praised for if they make the touch down and win the game or get blamed for kicking the field goal and lose the game
He doesn't say in the press conference at the end of the game you need to blame the quarter back it was his decision to kick the field goal how long would you think he would have his job if he did that

[belfpala]

A true leader would realize that other people are more qualified than he is in certain areas, have more information about the situation than he does, and can therefore make a better decision than he can.

That's kind of the way the world works.

[smelltheglove]

And I will say this again only a coward would pass the decision on to others to either save the lives of your fellow Americans or not.
A true leader would give the direct order to either send in help or give the order to use the capability of the AC 130 gun ship that was over Benghazi or the drone
A coward would leave that decession to someone else so he wouldn't take the blame if something went wrong

a coward? or perhaps a guy leaving it to somebody better versed in military tactics, logistics, and operations than him? i dont expect a president to be a military genius in order to lead the country

[Spectral]

Does a football coach tell the quarterback to make the decision to either go for the touch down or kick the field goal now he might ask for advise but the coach makes the final decision. That is why they are the coach because its their job to make that decision and that decision is his to either be praised for if they make the touch down and win the game or get blamed for kicking the field goal and lose the game
He doesn't say in the press conference at the end of the game you need to blame the quarter back it was his decision to kick the field goal how long would you think he would have his job if he did that

This is an excellent analogy. Choosing whether to go for it is the coach's job, calling an audible is the QB's job. What you're suggesting is that the coach should call the play, call the audible, then shout at the running back which way to cut after he gets the handoff.

[Catta]

I sent my roommate out with a grocery shopping list yesterday. When she was walking out the door I said, "Oh, and if the kale looks good, buy some of that too."

Think about it.

I dont get it. Paint me a picture.

[Kalyyn]

I dont get it. Paint me a picture.

Ooh! Ooh! I painted a picture yesterday!


Actually, I didn't so much paint it as I just color-replaced everything...

[Vyxn]

a coward? or perhaps a guy leaving it to somebody better versed in military tactics, logistics, and operations than him? i dont expect a president to be a military genius in order to lead the country

Why do i have to spell out out for you to understand
I'm not saying it is up to the president to plan the military action what I'm saying it was his decision and his decision alone to either authorize military force or not
at 410 pm Washington time a live feed from the drone and video cameras inside the compound was being broadcast into the white house situation room
at 520 pm Obama, Biden, Sec Panetta and the joint chefs of staff had a meeting
Do you not think they discussed if military use should be used to save the ambassador and his staff and you want to tell me the spineless Obama told them you can use military force if you want but that decision is up to you? It doesn't work that way either the president told them to use military force or stand down

Just like the Bin ladin raid Yes Obama got advise from the Panetta the joint chiefs of staff and VP Biden but the final decision was his and his alone he didn't tell them i authorize you to do so but you make the final decision, Now Obama didn't plan the raid that was left up to the military but it was his decision to do so

[smelltheglove]

Why do i have to spell out out for you to understand
I'm not saying it is up to the president to plan the military action what I'm saying it was his decision and his decision alone to either authorize military force or not
at 410 pm Washington time a live feed from the drone and video cameras inside the compound was being broadcast into the white house situation room
at 520 pm Obama, Biden, Sec Panetta and the joint chefs of staff had a meeting
Do you not think they discussed if military use should be used to save the ambassador and his staff and you want to tell me the spineless Obama told them you can use military force if you want but that decision is up to you? It doesn't work that way either the president told them to use military force or stand down

Just like the Bin ladin raid Yes Obama got advise from the Panetta the joint chiefs of staff and VP Biden but the final decision was his and his alone he didn't tell them i authorize you to do so but you make the final decision, Now Obama didn't plan the raid that was left up to the military but it was his decision to do so

i get what you're saying. what im saying is that telling your guy on the situation "this is your field of expertise, i'll follow your lead on this" is not cowardice, it's common sense. pretty sure obama didnt sit back and say "fuck 'em"