Is true balancing really what you want? Your views?

[corykerub]

no more of these :[

[bringitback]

I think it should be a circle : A>B>C>D>E>F>A.

The game was like this for many years. And guess what, people still complained as much as they do today.

[Flaks]

If you're an underpowered spec or composition and beat the fotm you'll know that you simply outplayed the other team.

You also realize that if the other team had even half a brain, they'd be able to shit on your team.

Thus why we see people discussing class representation and power in the 2400+ brackets in 3's instead of 1800+ or overall.

---------- Post added 2012-02-04 at 02:18 AM ----------

The game was like this for many years. And guess what, people still complained as much as they do today.

May be because the game is still like that though altogether worse than before.

Now its A,B,C>E,F,G,H,J,K,L>M. There's hard counters to some classes. Slight counters to others and then there's dps specs that aren't counters to anything and are just there because the man behind the character is just a really good player and could be doing so much better with another spec (see: resto druid, arms warrior, fury warrior, combat/assass rogue, arcane mage, holy priest).

[Asatru]

Now its A,B,C>E,F,G,H,J,K,L>M. There's hard counters to some classes. Slight counters to others and then there's dps specs that aren't counters to anything and are just there because the man behind the character is just a really good player and could be doing so much better with another spec (see: resto druid, arms warrior, fury warrior, combat/assass rogue, arcane mage, holy priest).

Ya know, the funny thing is....Resto Druids weren't in too bad of a shape when Cata was released, nor were Fury Warriors and other other Rogue Specs. Blizzard (namely Ghostcrawler) later adopted the ideal that there shouldn't be more than 1 PVP spec for any class and then he started tinkering with everything. Hell, I miss being Fury for PVP and have it actually do just as much reliable burst as Arms with Raging Blow...now Raging Blow only does 5-7% of my damage (it hits for less than Bloodthirst AND it REQUIRES you to be Enraged)

[Deleted]

Im a bit drunk but people especially pve people seems to missunderstand what "balance" is.

When i talk about "balance" i talk about nerfing FOTMS to the ground, not balancing all the specs. Its like team fortress 2, spies have a hard time taking down (backstabbing) pyros spychecking 24/7, but still its balanced. When we talk about FOTMs instead, then this thing will be ruined.

Like, if you ever played team fortress 2, last time i quit WoW rogues were like Spies instantly decloaking and backstabbing enemies. Thats not what i want, right? Too bad it takes Blizzard most of the times around 6 months to nerf a FOTM..

[announced]

im all for balance.. nerf frost/unholy dks and rogues then ur all set..

[Conscious]

You would imagine if they balanced for level one - all the way through 90, we'd see a more effective scheme take shape.

Rather, they're content with what seems like blatantly overbalancing, so that it will without fail become unbalanced again, and again. They've never really taken steps to permanently equalize the board, rather they still stick to a really, really, lopsided Rock-Paper-Scissors, where health pools have caused most of the grief this expansion.

[Fagnut]

Lol at tf2^ I play spy all the time (well use to, dont have time anymore) I can kill scrub pyros easily but the good ones give me trouble. Tf2s most op is demoman and it got nerfed hard, though, is still a real threat and the good ones are near unkillable.

When it comes to balance, wow is a 1 ton rock on one side of the scale with a feather on the other side. When MoP comes out, the new content will keep pvpers distracted abit then people will start to getting into it later.

People arent looking for true balance I think, just to have a chance. A rogue can deal with an ele sham with both hands tied behind his back. Warlocks get instagibbed and DKs wouldnt know what hit them.

[Asatru]

Lol at tf2^ I play spy all the time (well use to, dont have time anymore) I can kill scrub pyros easily but the good ones give me trouble. Tf2s most op is demoman and it got nerfed hard, though, is still a real threat and the good ones are near unkillable.

I've never understood how anyone can be bad at a Pyro, especially vs a Spy. I know I'm going through tons of fuel but it doesn't matter who runs up next to me or who I run next too... I'm always testing shit out just to see if it's legit or not. It's not hard at all lol

[Wilfire]

well in my opinion, if a game is balance around 1v1, then its balanced for all formats

[DiscoGhost]

i dont have a problem with the burst, i have a problem with interrupts on such a short cooldown. they said they wanted people to die because their healers went oom, not from dying in a stunlock or multiple interrupts.

[Deleted]

I don't think a perfect balance will ever happen, but having it as close as possible would be great.

[PizzaSHARK]

Eh, that's not always the case either. There is still some luck involved.

I remember playing a map of Dust in Counterstrike and one of my friends was on the opposing team. They started all coming out the tunnel and I was around 100 or 150 yards away, and all I could afford was a shotgun (the normal, not the auto)... well I figured I'd just shoot and hope to hit someone enough to damage them a little bit before they rushed up to us. Hit my friend in the head and killed him. He was like "How the heck did you do that with a shotgun at that range?" ... I just responded "I have no clue, luck I guess?"

Only applies to shitty shooters. Real shooters like Q3A/QuakeWorld and UT99/UT2k4 have absolutely no randomness at all... anywhere... and yet are still extremely exciting to watch.

Starcraft and Starcraft II have absolutely no randomness anywhere at all, and yet are still exciting to watch and have an eSports following that results in multi-million dollar yearly prize pool budgets.

Why? Because randomness is bad for a game if you want it to be taken seriously as a competitive game. Not necessarily an eSport, just a game to be competitive in. If you want players to give a shit about your game, you have to reward player skill properly, and you can't do that if it's randomized. Sure, you can do things to reduce the impact randomness has on your game - such as attacking from behind so they can't make use of avoidance - but in the end, you're still going to have games decided on the roll of the dice, rather than the skill levels of the players involved.

You think killing someone at 100% when you're at 60% because of a lucky string of crits is exciting. I think it's a complete load of shit and a very large, flashing neon sign saying THIS GAME IS BAD, DO NOT SPEND TIME ON IT! If you win that setup due to superior positioning, better use of your abilities, and overall knowledge of the game - that's fine. That's great. But if you win it because you rolled a 6 and he rolled a 2? No, fuck you, that's a terrible game.

---------- Post added 2012-02-05 at 10:45 AM ----------

The game was like this for many years. And guess what, people still complained as much as they do today.

The only thing you can do about whiners is just ignore them. Or forum ban them if you can manufacture a reason to.

I think a lot of people clamoring for balance changes don't really care if the game is balanced - they just want to be on top. That's why you don't often see players going "Yeah, my spec is totally overpowered, nerf it." You instead see them go, "My spec is totally not overpowered, you're just not playing your class right." Then they make up a huge list of reasons why they aren't overpowered. Or alternatively they're saying their spec is underpowered, that you're clearly not playing competent enemies if you don't think it's underpowered, and then they proceed to make a big list of reasons why their spec or class is underpowered. It's bullshit either way.

Know why? Because being overpowered is fun. There isn't a single person out there who played a S5 Shadowfrost DK or S5 faserowl Ret Paladin that didn't enjoy every fucking minute of it. Run up, mash buttons, see big numbers flash up and get a kill, and repeat. It's simple, instant gratification. It's fun!

But you can't have that if you want a balanced game. It doesn't mean a balanced game can't be fun (see: Starcraft, poker, chess, reversi, etc), but that you need to understand that if the game is balanced, you'll never be able to have that kind of instant gratification.

[Shilz]

no i like my flavour of the expansion classes

[zcks]

I don't think a perfect balance will ever happen, but having it as close as possible would be great.

This ^.


They already know what they need to do as well

1: Take personal feelings & or biases out of how classes/specs are designed then look at it from a logical point of view. (this problem has existed from day one)

2: Dramatically increase the amount of abilities which have separate or altered effects when used in PvP.



Sadly these things are unlikely to ever happen as long as Kalgan, a few other team managers & a few of the lead class designers are still working at blizzard due to the fact that they invest far to much personally (weather they like or dislike certain specs or are stuck in old out of date ways of thinking) in how some specs are treated throughout their design process all the way up to the PvP balancing process.

[endersblade]

About the only way they could ever really balance PvP is through class homogenization - which, you should all be happy to hear, Blizzard seems bent on accomplishing. My bet is in, say, 2-3 years, every single class will be like every other class, with only cosmetic differences.

The other issue is that changing things in PvP fucks up things in PvE. That simply should not happen. Until Blizzard decides to completely split the abilities between the two, nothing will ever be balanced because they have to worry about what will change on the other side of the house. Nerf the bursty DPS of X class because it's too OP in BGs/Arenas, suddenly X class doesn't get invited to raids anymore.

[Unitos]

Of course I want balance.

I'd bet that if they split pvp and pve, balance would be so much easier to achieve, though.

[Rayr1fe]

I think they should try to balance it at least once and see how it works.

[roahn the warlock]

It was fun back in vanilla when every class was OP in one thing or another, because it didn't matter, cause chances are the other team had those classes too. With Arena it's not so much, because with three people you can just stack the best, and the rest get to sit on the benches for choosing the wrong class.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

Yes, I would want true balancing.

FoTM sub-classes get old after awhile as folks aren't playing for skill, just what to faceroll with. It teaches bad habits even ("I can't play unless it's an OP"). Leaving bench classes also isn't fun for those players who's mains are benched.