IMO Bounty Hunters and Smugglers shouldn't start with a faction.

[Mormolyce]

I think it's necessary suspension of disbelief. Because otherwise it would be a 3-faction game.

Time and time again my character says she doesn't give a damn about politics and is only in for the credits, so why can't I take jobs for the Republic?

Maybe the Republic doesn't pay well enough. Or they wouldn't hire an amoral bounty hunter.

[philefluxx]

Because despite his independence he still fights for the empire. And would continue to have a job after the empire won. You can play the independence of a bounty hunter because he does it on the side. While doing heroic things for the empire he also does his own thing. A smuggler can not do that once the empire wins they simply would never use him and if he goes independent he becomes an enemy to the empire.

I really don't know how else I can explain, and maybe the fault is with me. But I have yet to see a story with a heroic character that loves freedom and being independent yet fights for an oppressive government. I'll believe you when I see it.

I agree with What Torftw has to say. He brings up precise reasons why a smuggler would/should not be working for Imperials.

Ill just leave this here:

Stance
A common stereotype in the galaxy was that smugglers were usually Corellian, and indeed, there were no shortages of Corellian smugglers, but smuggling was carried out by various freight carriers and criminal organizations of all species and planetary origins. Even members of the Imperial bureaucracy and military establishment had their own smuggling organizations, while other smugglers (such as Prince Xizor of Black Sun) were important players in legitimate galactic business.

So just because you dont see them working for the Empire doesnt mean there weren't Imperial citizens out there who woke up one day and said "Im going to be a Smuggler".

I never said I was writing the Smuggler story. I never said I was going to stop playing because this isn't the design. I'm arguing Smuggler's (in the SW universe) do work for the Empire, whether you like it or not.

Further more the Empire is all about domination and power. Do you really think that the Empire is so ignorant they would throw away a person that could be very useful in a hundred different ways just because of their occupation? You cant tell me the Empire wouldn't, at the very least, freeze them in carbonite until they found a use for them?

[Trollsbane]

So just because you dont see them working for the Empire doesnt mean there weren't Imperial citizens out there who woke up one day and said "Im going to be a Smuggler".

I never said I was writing the Smuggler story. I never said I was going to stop playing because this isn't the design. I'm arguing Smuggler's (in the SW universe) do work for the Empire, whether you like it or not.

Further more the Empire is all about domination and power. Do you really think that the Empire is so ignorant they would throw away a person that could be very useful in a hundred different ways just because of their occupation? You cant tell me the Empire wouldn't, at the very least, freeze them in carbonite until they found a use for them?

Yes, and they were called pirates, which differ from smugglers. Not in the definitive sense, but in the spirit of the SW universe, which is the debate.

[philefluxx]

Yes, and they were called pirates, which differ from smugglers. Not in the definitive sense, but in the spirit of the SW universe, which is the debate.

The quote is from the Smuggler section of the Wookieepedia, not the Pirate section.

[Trollsbane]

And the first bit on Wookieepedia also says:

"Smuggling, while having been a part of galactic trade for many years in the Galactic Republic, absolutely thrived under the Galactic Empire's strict control of goods."

Empire wanted to control and tax goods. Thus the smuggler (Robin Hood), made his living.

Also, in your quote, it mentions the Black Sun, who were smugglers, yes, but more so, they were pirates. Pirates smuggled, and killed to get the job done. Smugglers smuggled, but would sometimes commit suicide rather than get caught because imperials would simply kill them, unlike the Republic.

If you look here: http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes/smuggler
You'll see this:

"Above all else, Smugglers make their own destinies. Despite their affinity for credits, Smugglers have been known to turn down lucrative opportunities when the clients have demanded too much control. Some Smugglers are even more discriminating—refusing to work with slavers and representatives of the Sith Empire."

You can read further on under the section titled, "Relations with the Republic", to further understand why it is they are a republic based class.

[philefluxx]

Snip....

I fail to see how this translates to "Smugglers would never work for the Empire" which is the debate. All you have done is provided facts as to why Smugglers would not "commonly" be found in service to the Empire which is not the debate. It seems silly to me for anyone to think that Smugglers would not find profit working for the Empire. Smuggling is not a political stance, its just a occupation. There is so much corruption within the Empire and Republic there is money to be made. The least we can agree on is that Smugglers like to make credits.

I mean "Empire wanted to control and tax goods. Thus the smuggler (Robin Hood), made his living" say's it perfectly. Smuggling is lucrative, but in no way is it technically bound to any faction. Technically Bounty Hunting is illegal as well, especially when going after a Imperial Officer target or in certain sectors of space (we learn this very fact in The Great Hunt). Bounty Hunters and Smugglers are men/women for hire to the highest bidder, thus the original inspiration for this thread.

[Trollsbane]

Except Smugglers are not men/women for hire to the highest bidder, like many BH are. Like BHs that follow a madalorian code, they won't do certain jobs for certain people. Smugglers by spiritual definition in this universe adhere to a set of codes and morals. Ones that the empire is simply not capable of pertaining to. Smugglers make a profit by taking revenue from tyranny and those that seek to control the flow of goods, or people. Smugglers are not defined simply as a person who smuggles goods. Not in this universe, which is why I keep bringing up the spiritual definition in the SW universe vs the literal definition. A smuggler is very much like Robin Hood. Steal from the tyrannical, give to the others, make a profit in doing so.

If a smuggler crosses his laurals, and goes to work for the empire, he is no longer just a smuggler, he is a pirate. The empire WILL bend his will in order to secure more cargo, as well as take it by any means necessary. They will pay less, because you are no more than a hired thug at this point. You are not a collected killer, nor a point of intel, in so far as others are concerned such as a BH or an IA. When a Jedi turns to the darkside, he is usually a sith. When a sith turns to the darkside, he is usually a jedi. When a smuggler gives up his free living lifestyle, his control over his own desitny, and his ways of indirect dealings, he is a pirate, merc, or an unneeded corpse.

While a smuggler could find profit working for the empire, you won't find as much. The reason a smuggler gets paid better from the republic is because the goods he is smuggling are from the tyranical control freak, who already owns the goods, and thus will not pay you as much, and in fact, is more willing to cut your hand off for dipping into their pockets. The republic does not have goods that the empire needs for thier citizens. It is the other way around. The empire would hoard and make money from these goods, while the republic would freely give where applicable.

Smuggling is an occupation, but it is also a political stance because of who needs the goods, and who fronts the bill. Smuggling thrived because of the empires strict control over goods. Had the empire not demanded the strict control, the occupation on the whole would nearly cease to exist, and the paychecks would certainly not be as hefty.

So can a smuggler work for the empire? Sure. Will he make the same living in both wages and freedom as he would working for the republic? No. The empire exists to have supreme control over their subjects. BHs are tolerated and employed because they are effective killing machine, something the empire values higher than a rogue with a ship.

[Lord Kristivas]

There's a Smuggler working for the Empire, that you deal with on Hutta. He's the one who's trying to get Spice to make meds for the Imperial Military, in which you're sent to electrocute his eels. However, there are also TONS of Imperial Troopers, of which we can't roll any.

For reasons Trollsbane listed above, most Smugglers would be better off working within the confines of the Republic, rather than the Empire. Likewise, while the Republic surely has Bounty Hunters of it's own, the Mandalorians as a whole have pledged themselves to work with the Empire.

TLDR? Quit complaining and nitpicking. Empire has some Smugglers and Troopers, Republic has Bounty Hunters and SIS (Republic version of IA). YOU just can't play them, because it would be pointless and redundant, and would be a bitch to work in storyline wise.

[Alvito]

Wonder what the reasoning was for making BH Empire only and Smuggler Republic only?

To be the other side of the coin for IA and Troopers. I dont think its much beyond that, sure both make sense being on either side of the fight but then that would leave each faction with 2 of the same type of class on its side.

[philefluxx]

Snip...

Ok now we are arguing two different points. I've been arguing the literal definition, as it exists in the SW universe, this entire time. These are the rules I follow and the rules I would expect anyone writing fiction to follow. Just because Lucas and many of the EU authors have chosen to portray most Smugglers as the good hearted "robin-hood" type hero's, there is still a whole universe full of possibilities. One of the things that made SWG so much fun was the fact you really felt like you could do/be anything within a literal boundary. Wanted to get a storm trooper outfit? Sure thing, just train the skills. Feel like joining the Empire as Jedi? Why the hell not we will even throw in a space suit! I'm really not trying to make a game comparison either, just making a example you might relate to.

[WoWGoneBad]

Okay firefly does not equal starwars. Fine. I was trying to describe what a smuggler is. And how it makes no sense to ever fight for a side that would oppress you.

But I'll stick to starwars if you want, my BH is level 47. The mandos have an entire area of DK assigned to them, and while the actual bounties I pick up may not always be sanctioned specifically by the empire, they let me do what I want. And the empire does hire me to hunt people all the time. And if the empire won they would still hire me to hunt people. A bounty hunter can work for the empire and still be a bounty hunter.

As for not killing a smuggler if he is useful, well he isn't a smuggler anymore if he works for the empire now is he? Now he is just an imperial agent that does some smuggling. Which is my whole point. If you want to twist the definition of smuggler to be "thug" or "gangster" then sure, he can work for the empire, but then he isn't a smuggler anymore and that defeats the whole purpose of having a smuggler character switch to the empire. Just make an imperial agent or bounty hunter instead.

man just after reading your first three posts you have NO CLUE as to what a smuggler is. a smuggler will work for who pays him the creds be it empire or republic. you hink a smuggler will turn down 100k creds to ge a imp agent outa repub space because the imps dont like him, hell no creds are creds.

NOW if from your OWN point of view a smuggler will not work for imps tahts your OWN view. for me i work for creds and if i get them from imps or republic dont matter as long as im PAID.

you want a noble smuggler fine you have a noble smuggler just please stop trying to push that thought on others. and please stop thinking that because BW made smugglers republic ONLY that ALL smugglers HAVE TO be republic. the SW universe spans MORE than just the TOR game.COLOR="red"]

---------- Post added 2012-02-07 at 02:35 AM ----------

[/COLOR]

Smuggler -->> <<-- Imperial Agent.
Trooper -->>> <<-- Bounty Hunter.
soo.. yeh
imo, i think it's just taken from the movies, plus I mean ..<.< Bounty hunting is Illegal in the republic. they use normal troopers to get people!
as for the empire, yeh sure just replace the BH with a Trooper as well and your done, oh wait that takes away the BH from Star wars, <.< that don't work..yeh you get the point? BH and trooper=the same thing heavy duty class while smuggler and imperial agent is the same.( I played 1 hour of the game at a friends house, cause I don't own the game currently, but I see were bioware ment with all this.)

yes but there are more than just republic senators and mlitary within the republic and d you think all of those people deal in LEGAL dealings??? they would resort to smugglers and bounty hunters just as fast as any other person would if they really wanted an item or person dead.

---------- Post added 2012-02-07 at 02:42 AM ----------

FIRST paragraph from star wars wiki

Smuggling is the clandestine transportation of goods or persons, such as out of a building, into a prison, or across an international border, in violation of applicable laws or other regulations.

There are various motivations to smuggle. These include the participation in illegal trade, such as in the drug trade, in illegal immigration or illegal emigration, tax evasion, providing contraband to a prison inmate, or the theft of the items being smuggled. Examples of non-financial motivations include bringing banned items past a security checkpoint (such as airline security) or the removal of classified documents from a government or corporate office.


torftw does this REALLY sound very noble or good or even remtely what the republic would want?

BW made smugglers republic for balance NOT beceause they are the good guys

[DoctorDoomkin]

First of all if there is a post about this I apologize .. I went through 6 or more pages and didn't see anything.

Ok back on to subject. To me these two classes are more aligned to making credits (last time I checked credits don't have a faction), depending on how you play them. If you play them light (fighting for the good of the galaxy but still wanting to get paid) or dark ( just wanting to get paid and create some carnage on the way).

It seems to me these two classes would be ideal to choose a faction through quest story line or at later levels through your actions.

As far as the balance of classes. God knows I see plenty of Imperial Troopers around, and plenty of Republic SIS agents...

Thoughts?

I am not informed of the Smuggler's story, so I'm not going to comment on it.

As for the BH, you were labled an enemy to the Republic for killing a Jedi Master for the final kill in the Great Hunt. Thanks to that, no Republic military group would want to side by you. And the only reason you're sided with the Empire is the fact they are secretly keeping you safe so long as you stay in Imperial territory.

It would make sense for the BH you're playing as to stick to the Empire. At least they are not out to kill you yet.

---------- Post added 2012-02-06 at 09:27 PM ----------

man just after reading your first three posts you have NO CLUE as to what a smuggler is. a smuggler will work for who pays him the creds be it empire or republic. you hink a smuggler will turn down 100k creds to ge a imp agent outa repub space because the imps dont like him, hell no creds are creds.

NOW if from your OWN point of view a smuggler will not work for imps tahts your OWN view. for me i work for creds and if i get them from imps or republic dont matter as long as im PAID.

you want a noble smuggler fine you have a noble smuggler just please stop trying to push that thought on others. and please stop thinking that because BW made smugglers republic ONLY that ALL smugglers HAVE TO be republic. the SW universe spans MORE than just the TOR game.COLOR="red"]

---------- Post added 2012-02-07 at 02:35 AM ----------

[/COLOR]

yes but there are more than just republic senators and mlitary within the republic and d you think all of those people deal in LEGAL dealings??? they would resort to smugglers and bounty hunters just as fast as any other person would if they really wanted an item or person dead.

---------- Post added 2012-02-07 at 02:42 AM ----------

FIRST paragraph from star wars wiki

Smuggling is the clandestine transportation of goods or persons, such as out of a building, into a prison, or across an international border, in violation of applicable laws or other regulations.

There are various motivations to smuggle. These include the participation in illegal trade, such as in the drug trade, in illegal immigration or illegal emigration, tax evasion, providing contraband to a prison inmate, or the theft of the items being smuggled. Examples of non-financial motivations include bringing banned items past a security checkpoint (such as airline security) or the removal of classified documents from a government or corporate office.


torftw does this REALLY sound very noble or good or even remtely what the republic would want?

BW made smugglers republic for balance NOT beceause they are the good guys

They already have hired smugglers for their prison on a planet I can't name yet. It's the prison one. The Republic do have their own dirty secrets.

[vizzle]

Wow seriously if you're going to spout class stories at least put a spoiler warning first.

[Trollsbane]

Well, I've made all the points and pulled all the quotes tht are out there. Some people obviously only want to think of Smugglers as greedy assholes, even though the wiki specifically states otherwise, as does the holonet entry on the swtor site. So, believe what ya will, but i'm with Torftw and the wiki on this one. Smugglers would not prosper under the empire, and this game is not sandbox.

[rektbrah]

you gotta do the story to realise. you do end up starting neutral, sort of but it all makes sense why you go empire as a bounty hunter. not sure about smuggler however.

[DoctorDoomkin]

Wow seriously if you're going to spout class stories at least put a spoiler warning first.

The thread is based on 2 particular classes' faction. Plus, this is a story-driven MMO that also explains why certain questionable classes are on one side and not the other would've given you quite a bit of clues before you read.

Sorry for the spoilers.


On topic: Though it is true that it is entirely possible that either class can be on either faction, the story for those 2 guys/gals have been destined to go that route, and often times forced.

Your character made the desicions and the outcome led to their side. You were destined.

[vizzle]

Justify it however much you want I wasn't expecting to read spoilers without the spoiler tags, in a thread where no one else has said spoilers.

For future reference it's [ spoiler ] (spoiler) [ /spoiler ] for this effect

[Seezer]

I love the fact that classes are faction specific. Even though there is an equal counterpart, I like some diversity. That's one thing I don't like about wow. Almost every race can be every class now, and in MoP, pandas will be all over the place. But back to the OP, they made their decision based off of the movies. Smuggler's are Han, and BH's are Boba Fett.

[Cairhiin]

It's a simple gameplay decision to keep both sides equal, and both sides having a different sort of appeal.

[Nirawen]

The feeling I got playing my Bounty Hunter was simply that people of the Empire are the ones giving out most of the bounties, besides the Republic frowning upon alot of the Mandalorian activities. The storyline you follow explains why you end up more entangled with the Empire and the end of your class quest shows the true Bounty Hunter neutrality.