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  1. #521
    Holy trinity = Tank/Healer/Damage <----- This holy trinity is very narrow in design, Leads to tank and spank, Damage dealers are only told what to attack and do nothing else, Healers pay attention to health bars and not the actual encounters, Tanks stand their letting things hit them.
    Older trinity class systems had no damage dealers. It was Tanker/Healer/Controler.

    You are way off base on a number of terms and design theory as well. But that's fine, I am not that bothered by it. But felt it was worth pointing out for your future correction/self education.

  2. #522
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Isle of Faces
    Quote Originally Posted by Keosen View Post
    It's not my definition it's the only definition.

    Taking a step away from the classical approach of today's MMO combat is great but it's essentially leaning the weight towards players is what concerns me.
    Let's say a hypothetical scenario of a 10man GW2 encounter, combat a starts after 3 minutes a player gains aggro and while hitting the boss he gets killed.
    Who fault is this?
    The logical answer is everybody's false since the philosophy is fight as a group not as a single.
    The realistic answer based on the quality of today's gamer is "You", No You", "No i said i won't heal", "No you should be healing yourself" etc etc etc.

    I'm not really concerned about the philosophy, in fact i think it's absolutely great i'm pessimistic about the community though.
    I think you're over-generalizing as well. People who don't want to heal in WoW don't want to do it because they think standing in one place spamming heals on health bars is boring. (And, imo, it really is)

    That's different, entirely, from what you will experience in GW2. In your scenario, if that player "gains aggro" he won't suddenly get one-shot. That's part of what you're missing.

    In WoW, the ENTIRE game is designed with the idea that you have tanks, and healers keeping those tanks alive. And as such, bosses have to hit really freaking hard, or else they're not dangerous to the tank.
    In GW2, you have no tanks, no healers. As such, enemies won't one-shot you. Yes, it will be dangerous for them to be attacking you for long periods of time, but that's where teamwork comes into play. They're not designed with the idea that you are capable of taking intensely punishing damage the way a tank is. You can self-heal, you can blow defensive cooldowns, you can control your enemy with CC. Your TEAM can control the enemy. Your TEAM can use their utility that provides team support.

    In short, if you end up "pulling aggro" and your team decides to ignore you when you start asking for help, yes, it IS their fault. If you join a party, you SHOULD be expected to work with your group and make it work.

    The *most* fun I have ever had in WoW was when I was playing my Enhance Shaman in 5-man dungeons, back when I was gearing for T11 content. You know why?
    Because I didn't just mindlessly kill the enemy while ignoring my group. I pulled aggro when I felt it necessary, keeping enemies off healers and other squishy people. I off-healed when I felt it necessary, keeping the tank or anybody-else-at-all from dying.

    That was fun. That's what I hope to experience in GW2. A player utilizing ALL of his class abilities to win the fight, rather than just mindlessly spamming a DPS rotation. Ignoring CC, healing, and "tank" cooldowns all the while. I don't see how *anybody* can enjoy just doing DPS. And then, when the shit hits the fan, continue sitting there, just doing DPS.

    When I play my Warlock, and I see a group wiping, I feel utterly useless. All I can do is sit there and watch the group wipe. Because I can't help my team beyond hopefully killing the enemy faster.

    You know the best part of all this? This design allows them to balance both PvE and PvP very easily, because the PvE content may as well be a PvP match, with your enemies AI controlled. They'll still make it so abilities affect PvE and PvP differently, but that's beside the point.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-02-08 at 09:57 PM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  3. #523
    Quote Originally Posted by Freehoof View Post
    I understand where you're coming from with this - but there can be different levels of content. Some of that content will be challenging enough that bad players probably won't be able to complete it. Other content will be easy. Most of the content will probably be somewhere in between, and will ramp up in difficulty so that the more you play, the more complex the encounters get, to account for your ever-increasing mastery of game mechanics. Some players will take longer to learn the basics than others, some will reach a skill plateau earlier on, etc. - but this is true in any game and it's not a flaw of the GW2 system. All in all, time will tell. But I don't really think there's much reason to worry about these issues, given what we've seen and what's been talked about.
    I appreciate the level headed, rational response. I agree, I shouldn't even be speculating as it isn't in GA'ed yet. From the video's I have seen it looks to be one hell of a game and I cannot wait to play it. The shear beauty of the graphics makes me want to play it.

  4. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by leipuri View Post
    It really depends on the game. There isn't one universal definition for tank label for every mmo. GW1 had plenty of tanks and team builds that worked around having tank that would ball up enemies for big aoe spike.
    I know the term tank is used sometimes about GW but really there were no tanks, to be a tank you have to be able to grab aggro (taunt) and there is no such mechanic in GW so ergo there is no real tank.

    What there is is positioning which isn't really the same thing.

  5. #525
    Create a female human thief. Name her "Trinity". Dress her up in shiny black leather armor.

    Now you have Trinity in GW2!


  6. #526
    Quote Originally Posted by Disis View Post
    Seems like they are subscribing to purely DPS ideals. For instance; I enjoy playing a pure healer and I know people who only like to tank. What about that kind of people?
    Then you can play a different MMO, because with no subscription, you can still play GW2 AND another MMO of choice. Win-win imo

  7. #527
    Scarab Lord Loaf Lord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Rue d'Auseil
    I just don't think people realize how enemies are going to behave in this game. It's not "pull mob and the mob is glued to you until aggro is broken." The mob is going to do it's own thing. So there is no tanking.

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