[HC Yorshaj] Setup problems and healers amount

[Rudy]

Hi there, i ve been looking on many pages of Yorshaj help guide (i know there are plenty of them, sorry if i make another) but i can t find an answer on those threads.

I m a raider in a small guild, currently we are 2/8 hm, morchok and ultraxion.
Our main (and only) roster is made by:

Prot Warr
Tank druid (dps on yor)

BM hunter
Demo Lock
Combat/muti rogue
Frost dk
Moonkin

Spriest for backup

Hpala
RShaman
Rdruid

We 1 tank this and 3 heal. The question i would like to ask you is, how can 2 healing be more effective? I saw many guides that say 2 heal it, but i need an answer to convince my healers that are saying that healing is too hard there for 2 healing it.

I would like to ask you some other things too, should rogue stick to combat or go muti for extra aoe with fok-DP?
I already told the hunter to use a chimaera for better aoe. (read it on other yorshaj help guide)

Any tip that you can give me is appreciated, since the last time i asked 1 thing here i downed the boss (normal madness a few month ago) the same evening

[Lolgo]

Well, technically I haven't killed yor hc yet, but prolly gonna do it today, so I can tell a few things. 2-healing is better than 3-healing cause you're wasting resources. When the purple slime comes it's all about skill, not amount of healing. "When and how" not "how much and how often" as I understood. Tha's why better spec your druid to dps. And stay combat. Flurry does miracles. This is all coming from a combat rogue Oh yeah, and spec your hunter surv. Yes, you will lose 3% buff, but he will easily out-aoe BM. That is, if that's a problem for you.

[Geni]

Since most of the time you will have purple up that's going to prevent your healers from healing too much.
With 3 healers there's a bigger chance that you will heal the same target and they might blow up.

We did it with 2 healers and 1 tank and the hardest combination for us was green red yellow black. He just raped us, but with hero and a cooldown rotation 2 healers was able to keep us up, just pray that you don't get it twice in a row.

[Braindwen]

2/2/6 if your druid knows what he's doing and can bearcat effectively, 1/2/7 if he doesn't. Repeating others here, but most phases on heroic have purple up. This means adding a tank is more helpful than adding a healer, since purple is massively limiting healing and splitting bolt/corruption stacks across 2 tanks makes it much easier to keep them alive.

You'll have 2-3 phases of either Y/R/G/Bl or P/R/Y/Bl in the fight, depending on what your 7th combo is (it goes through all 6, then starts doing repeats, the 7th may be one of those 2). We personally found Y/R/Bl killed us without lust, and was actually pretty hard to deal with even with lust, so we only dealt with it once. On P/R/Y/Bl we killed yellow and just did P/R/Bl; it's easier than it sounds, and, again, your druid can make this even easier (with unglyphed 4pc, if he has it).

You need to get used to purple/blue phases and figure out how you'll deal with the heavy damage combos. Once you have those things down, it's just doing the fight right for 9-10 minutes.

[Kwaidan]

On our first kill, we 3 healed this encounter. However, when we switched to two healers (disc priest and holy paladin), the fight became trivial. The main reason, as has been stated by others in the above, is that it is in fact easier to heal the purple phase with two healers rather than three, as the third healer won't actually be able to do much healing and is more likely to blow up the raid instead. Secondly, and obviously, two healers means more dps to get down the adds and the boss himself.

There are a few tricks to the fight to make certain difficult phases easier, though, which have little or nothing to do with how many healers you bring to the playground.

First of, keeping purple and black off eachother. It can be tricky to heal black and purple setups. In the Purple - Red - Yellow - Black combo, we actullay go for the purple rather than the yellow, and therefore will take more raidwide damage, but we find it easier to heal through. I see now that Geni above me have problems with the combo, and it might not be optimal for your group to have several of these phases, so you would have to try and find out. We usually pop BL during the first Red - Yellow - Black, and use some random CD (hymn, tranq etc) for the second (if we get any). Furthermore, after each phase with Red - Yellow - Black, we have everyone run to the next ooze to kill. That means all the adds from the 2nd wave will follow and be killed by cleaves.

I suspect one of the reasons your healers want to go with three, is somewhat related to tank damage? As you haven't got a DK tank, the paladin will take quite a beating, especially during purple phase, perhaps? I bet you are already using the "beacon-on-pet-trick" to avoid stacks. We found, however, that it was easier to let the holy paladin spread his heals in the raid (meaning we didn't assign healing groups) in order for the heals to become more effective raidwide. This worked well for us, but it demands that your other healer restrains him/herself and don't blow up the raid. Lastly, blowing up the raid is not necesarily a wipe. We did it occasionally on purpose to keep the tank up, and as long as the rest of the raid are ok on health, go for it.

[Deleted]

We 1 tank this and 3 heal. The question i would like to ask you is, how can 2 healing be more effective? I saw many guides that say 2 heal it, but i need an answer to convince my healers that are saying that healing is too hard there for 2 healing it.

Speaking as a healer who has 2 healed this fight every single week since it came out, I see zero reason to use a 3rd healer if you already have a Pally and Shaman. Those are the 2 best healers for this fight, anything on top of that is literally pointless since if those 2 do their job well then the 3rd healer will just be overhealing. The only reason I can see to bring 3 is if you don't have a Holy Pally. Your main problem with that comp is your tanks, it doesn't matter if you bring 9 healers to the fight, purple phases still limit the healing a tank can recieve. We did the fight with a Prot War and a Feral trading aggro back and forth so that they are actually healabe during purple.

There are 2 types of "phases" on this fight, purple and non-purple. The first is purple phases of which there are 3 or 4 depending on strat. Purple+green twice, purple+black once and purple+red+black once (this last one can be changed to Yellow+Red+Black). Obviously the purple buff limits the healing you can do, so at this point a 3rd healer is quite pointless because there literally isn't enough room for them to heal. Two people can output enough heals to keep everyone alive, a 3rd person will just add unnecessary stacks of purple and blow someone up.

Then there are the non-purple phases, the only hard one is Yellow-Red-Black-Green - this phase is the reason some guilds bring 3 healers. However that's a complete waste if you have a Pally. If you have trouble 2 healing this phase then your Pally just isn't doing his/her job well enough. The last two weeks we did this I (pally) simply popped my personal CDs and we got through it without a single raid cooldown. If your raid is stacked tight and your Pally healer is good at maximizing HR's healing then this phase becomes a breeze. Keep in mind that the 2nd healer can't slack off either, in order for the Pally to be free to spam HR the 2nd healer (shaman in our run) has to throw out the spot heals on tanks and DPS as needed when they spike lower than the rest of the raid.

Purple phases are about control and communication. Splitting the raid into 2 groups, one for each healer and communicating on who will heal the tanks and when. Abusing Beacon of Light, Word of Glory and the shaman's mastery for tank healing and using a few cooldowns if the need calls for it. The YRB phase is all about spam, using as many different CDs as you need and spamming the crap out of HPS. Neither of these situations requires a 3rd healer.

TLDR:
- Regardless of heal comp, two tank this fight
- If done properly a 3rd healer will just add overhealing
- Your healers have to communicate and coordinate well for purple and spam well for non-purple

[rarw]

I'm in a 10man guild working on spine hc atm.

We first started progressing on yor'sahj with 3 healers (druid, shaman and priest) the first night and we didn't get through a lot of phases tbh. We then went with 2 healers(priest and shaman) the following night and our survival didn't really drop too much. The thing that gets easier when 2healing is when you got purple up, which is normally half the time pretty much.

Purple basically means that if you heal 1 person more than 4 times in a 20sec intervall you'll do heavy aoe damage to the raid. During purple there isn't really a lot of raid damage either, heaviest is probably red/black.

The thing is, if a player is on low HP and on 3 or 4 stacks of the debuff, there's a chance that 2 or 3 healers will put a heal on him at the same time, blowing him up, and possibly wiping the raid. This chance will ofcourse get lower with fewer healers. That's one motivation to 2heal it.

Another is the fact that raid damage rarely is very high here. The only real heavy blob comp is black/red/yellow (or black/red/green if that's what you're going with), and since you probably have tank 4set (and healer 4sets for that matter) this is not that hard to survive if you just rotate cooldowns.

There's also the obvious upside that the boss will die faster with one more DPS. Yor'sahj is a fight with adds, which means going from 6 to 7 DPS does more than one would think. If you don't have a problem killing blobs as it is, the 7th DPS can sit on the boss through the entirety of the fight, and the fight will be considerably shorter.

I'd go with 2 healers, one of those being the paladin. Whenever there's a purple out, have your paladin heal the raid with divine light primarily, beacon being on the tank. If noone at all except the tank takes damage, heal a pet so that the tank gets healing through beacon. Have the other healer heal the tank primarily, with heavy heals carefully not overhealing. If druid stack up a lifebloom pre-phase if it aint up already, and keep it up with 4 evenly spread healing touches. Note that nature's swiftness increases healing done by the spell so use that if tank damage gets hard to manage. If shaman, don't be afraid to let the tank drop somewhat low so that you'll get heavier greater healing waves. Note that spirit link totem is crazy shit during a purple, usually best poped late in the phase.

For yellow(or green)/black/red your paladin healer should have self-pops up for most if not all of the time(glyph of divine favor is good here). Aura mastery should be used, shield wall for the raid should be used. Tranqs should be used aswell.

You shouldn't have any trouble with AoEing with the setup you're going with tbh. I'd have the rogue stay combat.

Make sure you do the thing with the mana void where you let the first one be alive, getting it down slowly and poping mana cooldowns to get as much as possible back. When the next one spawns, kill the first one (right after the second one has drained everything), which should be low on HP, and leave the new one up, getting it down slowly.

Here's a prot warrior guide since that's what you're going with.

Edit: We 1 tank this fight, since you have a holy paladin I'd go with 1 just cause 2 tanks makes it more complicated (no really :F) for the healers during purple. That's my personal opinion though.

[Deleted]

Dear Rudy,

Have no worries about questioning. That's what forums are for. In the end, we can always adress you to proper thread if this problem was solved lately.

I'm not as experienced as rawr (5/8hc at the moment) however i'll try to add some things that might help. In general I agree with everything said by him. My guild had same problems as yours. We've done countless attempts on Yor hc with 3 healers and it was just not moving anything. "How it is possible to heal with two healers then?" everybody tought. At last we decided to try it, thinking we have nothing to loose and wham bam thank you mom, he was down in a matter of few tries. Most reasons for that were mentioned by Rawr in previous reply, however i can come with a few more.

What we've found the most deadly in beast combo (black/red/yellow) were adds. Obviously with 7 DPS adds are going down really quickly, therefore helping healers to deal with incoming damage. Also, you should try rotating people in and out of the stack point. Red beam prefers targeting players that are at the furthest distance from the boss and you can use it to your advantage so the biggest damage will be taken by people prepared for it (dk with AMS, paladin with bubble). Except leaving one dps constantly on boss you can also deal with 2nd loads of 'yellow adds' more efficently. We all remained stacked, AoE'd like crazy and swapped to globule when it was 1/3 way to Yor'saj. This way 2nd load of adds was already at low health and it was just matter of executing them.

About CD's rotation i'd reccomend leaving heroism/bloodlust in case of 2nd BEAST in a row. It might not happen untill 20%, might happen in the beggining. Surely you'd not like a wipe on 5% due to 2nd BEAST combo. You should always think ahead and save some cooldowns if things would go mental.

Mana Void trick is extremely useful, so study it well!

Also if you're not using it, curse came with Yor'sajh addon, that if used by raid leader, will announce which globule should be killed. You can think of it to be useless, but it actually helps, giving RL breath of relief and cleans vent/TS for healing communication.

Combining those tips, and theese mentioned up above in previous post and a little bit of luck, should give you smooth kill and a lot of nerd shouts after his death Do not give up and convince your healers to go with a pair. Damage control should be much better and you'll have less phases due to boss dying quicker.

Best Regards,
Vendigo

PS: Our rogue remained in combat spec.

[Deleted]

The easiest way to convince your healers is just to look at WoL parses for HC Yorsahj, you'll notice that the healing requirements are 30k HPS in purple phases. Tell them if they can't do 15k hps they suck.

[Fiana]

You should go with 1 tank. And it should be DK tank. If your DK dps don't have tank spec, kick him and take another one.

You should go with 2 healers. It makes fight easy and reliable. There is nothing to heal with 3 healers and healing on purple phase with 2 healers is more intuitive.

[Ariigold]

I haven't read all the way through this but I know the main healing tips for this fight i give to everyone are pretty simple.

1.Purple phases are a paladin dream. Have the paladin beacon whoever needs the heal and blast the hunters pet. This will not bother the healing effect and so it is very op. Same with POM.

2.Dps down mana voids when they are out, but don't kill them until the following manavoid comes out. The mount the SECOND void drops, kill the first void and healers will have their mana refreshed each time void is out, rather that depleted. Use your spriests Hymn of Hope for the first void.

3. Defintiely two heal this fight with 1 tank and 7 dps. You may be able to swing tank with your bear, but I wouldn't unless things just really aren't working for you

[damz2969]

Regardless of the rest of your setup, you should use 2 healers as explained above.

Unless your DK can tank it might be better to use 2 tanks, and the feral can go cat when he doesn't need to tank. Use cds for the hard phase which should be red,yellow,green,black.

[Choptimus]

If you can, bring a DK. It makes the fight trivial at best.