[Movies] Was Loki even a true villain? [THOR]

[Deleted]

So I've recently downl... I mean "hired" this movie after a long time of skepticism (never liked the Thor-universe) and while I watched the movie I couldn't help but to feel more sympathy for the adopted son of the archenemy than Odin's true son and heir. In my eyes Loki was a gifted diplomat only striving to become acknowledged and make the difficult moral decisions. While on the other hand, Thor was a reckless and spoiled hurr-durr character screaming justice while smashing stuff. He would have even been sent to the house of Gryffindor if he was a student in Hogwarts.

Did I miss something? Or does the fact that I supported Loki more than Thor make me evil? Maybe the movie didn't achieve to explain why Loki is a villan and Thor the hero. What are your thoughts?

[Verazh]

Its what makes Loki a good villian; that you can relate and sympathise with him. It gives his character depth and makes it more believable.

[announced]

half and half.. he did this but he also redeemed himself by doing this.. its true THor didnt really have a true villain...

[Woceip]

An audience will hate a good villain and love a great one. Quoted for truth.

[Deleted]

Yeah... I guess he's the Sylvanas of Marvel (ucwutididthar). But still, shallow plot is shallow...

[rogueMatthias]

Its what makes Loki a good villian; that you can relate and sympathise with him. It gives his character depth and makes it more believable.

I think so too. Loki was a great "villain" I really hope he doesn't get too cartoony in Avengers which I fear he might


I really felt bad for him. Most similar stories you would have the evil manipulative brother scheming because the cool good brother is the most loved.

I love that in Thor, Loki was the nice, good, intelligent brother.. who really would have made the better king, and Thor, until he was banished, was a complete dick that would have run the place to ruin... and STILL Thor is the preffered and spoilt son.

It makes it so much more reasonable that Loki's all like "SERIOUSLY.. WTF? I MEAN C'MON!!!!" and starts to loose it more and more.

[Deleted]

So I've recently downl... I mean "hired" this movie after a long time of skepticism (never liked the Thor-universe) and while I watched the movie I couldn't help but to feel more sympathy for the adopted son of the archenemy than Odin's true son and heir. In my eyes Loki was a gifted diplomat only striving to become acknowledged and make the difficult moral decisions. While on the other hand, Thor was a reckless and spoiled hurr-durr character screaming justice while smashing stuff. He would have even been sent to the house of Gryffindor if he was a student in Hogwarts.

Did I miss something? Or does the fact that I supported Loki more than Thor make me evil? Maybe the movie didn't achieve to explain why Loki is a villan and Thor the hero. What are your thoughts?

In my favorit interpreting of Loki, in Villy Sørensens book Ragnarok, he chose to follow Odin to Asgård because he realise what a fraud Odin is. With manipulations he tryes to bring Giants (jætter) and Aesir closer together, despite Odins isolation policy. Offcourse it all ends with the Aesirs ( mainly Thor) going rampage, blaiming Balders death on Loki (even though Odin should have seen it comming)and kills Loki after they tortured him for days.
In Ragnarok Odin is power hungry and wont share Asgårds wealth with the giants. Thor is a bruiser. Balder is put on a piedestal. And Loki is basicly the only one, who isnt a blind follower.

[Deleted]

In my favorit interpreting of Loki, in Villy Sørensens book Ragnarok, he chose to follow Odin to Asgård because he realise what a fraud Odin is. With manipulations he tryes to bring Giants (jætter) and Aesir closer together, despite Odins isolation policy. Offcourse it all ends with the Aesirs ( mainly Thor) going rampage, blaiming Balders death on Loki (even though Odin should have seen it comming)and kills Loki after they tortured him for days.
In Ragnarok Odin is power hungry and wont share Asgårds wealth with the giants. Thor is a bruiser. Balder is put on a piedestal. And Loki is basicly the only one, who isnt a blind follower.

Amazing interpretation. Will have to take a look at that book. I kind of see a pattern in all religions where the Gods encourage blind devotion and reckless action, while thinking and discussing is viewed as weak and evil. This applies to the moral of these kind of mythologic movies ofcourse. Loki! <3

[Amontoya86]

This is how I view it.

In the movie Thor, Loki was single handily defeated by Thor, with very little trouble I may add (when Thor had his powers back). Now, Thor, with the help of Iron Man, Captain America, Hulk, and Hawkeye (along with S.H.I.E.L.D. and probably the U.S. Military) will have to band together to defeat............Loki.

No matter what awesome new evil powers he will newly receive, I find this to be a huge cop out. Reusing a villain (especially one as forgettable as Loki) boggles my mind and unless the previews aren't showing it, there are no other popular villains helping Loki. This makes the fight even more ridiculous. 5 super heroes plus a army vs........guess well have to find out.

[Fenixdown]

Keep this in mind (especially if you do not read comics).

The movies are based moreso off the Ultimates series. In that series, Loki is the the first real "supervillian" the Ultimates (a.k.a. the Avengers) encounter. Now, while I would love to have seen a truer spin on that series by bringing in the Axis of Evil (a.k.a. the Masters of Evil, which I've yet to see any hints at), I like that Loki is the first villian the Avengers will encounter.

If you know their list of usual suspects, only a handful of other villians at best stand out as movie calibur supervillians to face an entire superherro team solo. Doom, Kang, and Ultron. A Kang storyline would have taken a bit of time to explain, and Doom is closer linked as a Fantastic Four villian. Since there wasn't much showing of Ultron (I don't even see an Ant Man/Giant Man or Wasp anywhere), that wouldn't have made much sense.

Loki will make a great villian.

@ Amontoya86 : That's how the comics have been for decades. Villians some heroes can take out solo find ways to become too powerful to stop alone, so that's where super hero teams come into play. Take Magneto. Without a helmet blocking psionic energy, a guy in a wheelchair with psychic powers can take him down. So what's the need of the X-Men? To take away the helmet.

The need of the Avengers is to take away whatever is giving Loki untold power, where Thor alone would not be able to.

[rogueMatthias]

I'm not entirely convinced Thors even going to be trying to bring him down for half the movie. I'd be disapointed if he was.

I mean, my little brother is a COMPLETE dick and does my head in, and we fight all the time, but if I see a group of people starting on him in town il be "FUCK THAT" and straight over to help (trying to) kick some ass!


Even the crap Loki put Thor through I doubt thor will just sit by and let Cap, Hulk and IronMan pound on his brother.

[Clockwork Pinkie]

I'm not entirely convinced Thors even going to be trying to bring him down for half the movie. I'd be disapointed if he was.

I mean, my little brother is a COMPLETE dick and does my head in, and we fight all the time, but if I see a group of people starting on him in town il be "FUCK THAT" and straight over to help (trying to) kick some ass!


Even the crap Loki put Thor through I doubt thor will just sit by and let Cap, Hulk and IronMan pound on his brother.

Well, the thing is, it's not his "true" brother, not even related. The king just took Loki under his wing and raised them as brothers.

[Amontoya86]

@ Amontoya86 : That's how the comics have been for decades. Villians some heroes can take out solo find ways to become too powerful to stop alone, so that's where super hero teams come into play. Take Magneto. Without a helmet blocking psionic energy, a guy in a wheelchair with psychic powers can take him down. So what's the need of the X-Men? To take away the helmet.

Good point, but after watching the trailer again I have a theory. If you skip to 1:25 in the video above you see a clip of Thor attacking Captain America. Is it possible Loki has some type of mind control device? That may be the thing he needs to even up the score.

[Vestig3]

Just to be clear even if loki was only the king coz his father was in a coma and thor banished meaning thor would allways be the one to take the throne as he ofc is odins first born loki was never meant to become the king i think he is rather pissed at the fact he isnt realy what he thought he was and he has odin to thank for that.

[Fenixdown]

Good point, but after watching the trailer again I have a theory. If you skip to 1:25 in the video above you see a clip of Thor attacking Captain America. Is it possible Loki has some type of mind control device? That may be the thing he needs to even up the score.

Just as an explanation of Loki's powers for you (because that may have made my brain hurt a little :P ).

Loki, being the God of Mischief, has the powers of both influence and manipulation. While his powers do not work on other gods, they do work against mortals. In Ultimates II, Loki uses his powers to turn the Ultimates against Thor (a likely scenario that is placed into the movie), as Thor is the only being on Earth who can see Loki's magic at work.

In short, Loki doesn't need a device. It's his power as an Asgardian deity. Another reason why he is, generally speaking, one of the major Avengers supervillians. He can use his powers to raise armies together, or even to influence supervillians to unite together to face his foes. To resist his powers takes someone with an incredibly strong will (such as Doom or Dr. Strange) or being a god (such as the beings of Asgard).

However, Loki did need some assistance to reach the world of Midgard (a.k.a. Earth). You see this at the end of Captain America (or was it Thor? I don't recall now, but it's one of those two).

[saberon]

If I remember correctly... Loki, from the outset of the movie, was working to undermine Thor.

Didn't he sneak in the Frosty's, then provoke Thor into seeking vengeance, and then tip off Odin to get him busted? I mean, Thor was a total douchebag, and you can sort of see why Loki would do it as he considers himself to be a better choice... but he still manipulated everyone to get his way.

[Deleted]

If I remember correctly... Loki, from the outset of the movie, was working to undermine Thor.

Didn't he sneak in the Frosty's, then provoke Thor into seeking vengeance, and then tip off Odin to get him busted? I mean, Thor was a total douchebag, and you can sort of see why Loki would do it as he considers himself to be a better choice... but he still manipulated everyone to get his way.

And I don't blame him. Loki was gifted with an incredible intelligence instead of the strength Thor had. Even though Loki proved himself be more wise, tolerant and strategic, Odin always valued Thor more and had no intention to give the throne to Loki, even though he said to the boys that one of them would become king, encouraging a rivality between the two brothers. Of course Loki lost faith on his kin when Thor, a stubborn and hot-headed diva, was called to take the throne. And what is a high intelligent person's last resort? Scheming and manipulating from the shadows. Sure it was morally "wrong", but we're talking about politics and the security of the entire universe. If it wasn't for Loki Thor would've never been banished and he would've never learn "how to be a king" (that cliché annoys me, what did he even learn is such short time?) and be known as the hero we all know.

In my opition it's all Odin's fault. He raised them both unfairly, creating a self-righteous prince and a jealous outcast. Poor Loki lost it even more when he learned that he was the very monster "his" people had always been fighting, abandoned by his own biological father to die in the cold darkness because he was viewed as weak for his small stature. Wasn't he always made fun of by Thor and his friends for being weak when he prefered to use words instead of acting? Anyone would become obsessed with being acknowledged as one of the group after being alone like he was. *coughnarutocough* But, knowing in the end that he would never become one of them, and not one of the frostgiants either, Loki began to hate everything and everyone.

At least in the movie he seems more like an anti-hero than a villain. Because he tried to do what was best in his way, and even though he became mad with hate it was pretty evident in the movie that he still, somewhere deep inside, wanted to be together with his brother and family. A very tragic story that should have ended with Loki's suicidal death in the end. But damn Marvel had to bleed him out for money....

[Vestig3]

Odin always valued Thor more and had no intention to give the throne to Loki, even though he said to the boys that one of them would become king, encouraging a rivality between the two brothers. Of course Loki lost faith on his kin when Thor, a stubborn and hot-headed diva, was called to take the throne.

Too my belive after watching the movie it was allways odins plans to make thor king since after all thor is his first born and eventho loki isnt his real son he was like a son too him.

[Deathguise]

Yea Loki wasn't truly evil, the only thing he really did that you could see was evil was sneaking the ice guys, and he committed saying he just did it to have a little fun and ruin his brothers day, no real "evil" intent behind it. He didnt put his step-father in the coma, he didnt force his way into leadership, and all he was trying to do at the end of the movie was destroy the ice giant which he saw as the enemy of his adopted family. I guess he also sent the big metal thing after Thor which was strange and out of character in my opinion.

[Rickarus]

This is how I view it.

In the movie Thor, Loki was single handily defeated by Thor, with very little trouble I may add (when Thor had his powers back). Now, Thor, with the help of Iron Man, Captain America, Hulk, and Hawkeye (along with S.H.I.E.L.D. and probably the U.S. Military) will have to band together to defeat............Loki.

No matter what awesome new evil powers he will newly receive, I find this to be a huge cop out. Reusing a villain (especially one as forgettable as Loki) boggles my mind and unless the previews aren't showing it, there are no other popular villains helping Loki. This makes the fight even more ridiculous. 5 super heroes plus a army vs........guess well have to find out.

It won't necessarily be against Loki, it will be against anyone and everyone that Loki can manipulate to work for his cause. I really like the fact that they're staying true to the Comics and using Loki as the initial Avengers villain, and in fact, in the comics, he is the reason they are founded. It is also quite possible that the Hulk may be sort of a dual role, and quite possibly may be an obstacle that the Avengers need to get past when trying to stop Loki, if they're staying true to the comic at all.

As for the villainity of Loki: he, like many other strong villains, is a victim of circumstance. He was abducted, with seemingly (at least in the marvel incarnation) only good intentions, as Odin was impressed by the strength Loki showed after Odin defeated his father (who was ashamed of Loki due to his small stature compared to frost giants). As he was not Asgaardian by blood, he did not grow to be strong and courageous like Thor, which made him grow resentful, as the people of Asgaard revered Thor for embodying the ideal Asgaardian. Upon finding out that he is indeed a frost giant by blood, as an adult, he pretty much loses his shit and that's what makes him evil.