Can Anet pull this off?

[Mif]

I find it hard to believe a license as big as Star Wars would comparatively speaking move less units than Guild Wars 2 after a year.

Oh, completely agree. I was a speaking more generally with the one day sales thing.

[Malthurius]

Perhaps. But I find it hard to believe a license as big as Star Wars would comparatively speaking move less units than Guild Wars 2 after a year. Retained subs is another matter. But just box sales? Star Wars is one of the largest brands in history.

What's bigger? McDonald's? Walt Disney? Star Wars is on a whole other level from Guild Wars.

Well, Disney has an MMO, and it isn't that popular.

I think it's because most Star Wars fans are fans because of the movies, not the games. Most people that are into Guild Wars are into Guild Wars because of the game, probably not the book so much. That's what I would assume. Star Wars doesn't have as much appeal to the gamer community as GW might.

Of course I'm only assuming, I don't know at all. I would be surprised if GW2 sold more than Star Wars on day 1 (or over a year) as well.

[MissCleo]

I think it's because most Star Wars fans are fans because of the movies, not the games. Most people that are into Guild Wars are into Guild Wars because of the game, probably not the book so much. That's what I would assume. Star Wars doesn't have as much appeal to the gamer community as GW might.

Of course I'm only assuming, I don't know at all. I would be surprised if GW2 sold more than Star Wars on day 1 (or over a year) as well.

This is an interesting point.

Anecdote: I love the original Star Wars trilogy. Grew up with those movies, and all the films/serials they were inspired by (Flash Gordon, elements from the films of Kurosawa, Fritz Lang, and others, etc.) I never really got into much of the Star Wars expanded universe stuff. Read a couple of the books, thought they were okay - never really was motivated to read any others. Don't care about the comics. Hated the prequel trilogy. Etcetera. I consider myself to be a real, dyed-in-the-wool Star Wars fan, but I couldn't give two shits about SW:TOR. It's not that I don't like the idea of a sci-fi or space MMO, it's just that I don't really care to play in that universe. For me, the original trilogy is enough, and I don't think that makes me any less of a Star Wars fan.

I know this is personal, anecdotal evidence, but there are probably others like me. The percentage of Star Wars fans who aren't especially excited by a Star Wars MMO is probably greater than the percentage of Guild Wars fans who have the inverse feelings regarding the games vs. the books.

[Fencers]

Hold on, what's the Disney MMO?

[Malthurius]

Hold on, what's the Disney MMO?

Toontown? I'm shocked I found an MMO you're not familiar with.

Admittedly, it's sold towards minors. It's more a kin to Runescape or Adventure Quest Worlds.

And there is Pirates of the Caribbean online, which I am less familiar with.

[Bullettime]

If you played GW1 and its expansions, you would have noticed the loads of microtransaction options.

Decent fan base + microtransactions out the wazoo = revenue. Upkeep costs on a game the size of Guild Wars isn't all that much in comparison to say WoW and is easily funded by the microtransactions. Guild Wars 1 + expansions all made the company pretty good profits.

F2P is just as effective as monthly subs. It's just designing the game around the model of choice appropriately and making sure it fits with your game.

[Fencers]

Toontown? I'm shocked I found an MMO you're not familiar with.

Admittedly, it's sold towards minors. It's more a kin to Runescape or Adventure Quest Worlds.

Very interesting. Downloading. Will touch back on this some time.

[Morogoth]

Well, SWTOR had roughly a million copies by the 2nd day of release. Can't get much higher profile than that game for MMOs. Are you guesstimating 3mil copies sold over a year or so? Because I don't think they will have close to 3 million even in the first year.

Oh yeah, I don't know about that. I just had this feeling that a lot of the WoW player base will move to GW2 because WoW is getting too old. People need something new and refreshing and sadly Star Wars failed that. It's still too similar to WoW. Just my humble opinion.

All my "study" was theoretical

[Fencers]

Yea, just 3 million was like... "wow what??". That's awfully high for a new MMO without a powerhouse brand attached.

[Malthurius]

Very interesting. Downloading. Will touch back on this some time.

Do you have a job in the video game/marketing industry or do you just pride yourself in having knowledge of as many MMOs as possible?

[Fencers]

Do you have a job in the video game/marketing industry or do you just pride yourself in having knowledge of as many MMOs as possible?

Neither? I just enjoy them a lot. I worked for 2 video game companies in the past. But not as a developer.

[Malthurius]

Neither? I just enjoy them a lot. I worked for 2 video game companies in the past. But not as a developer.

Ah. Sorry, meant no offense by the question, you just have a much greater experience than anyone I've ever met so I assumed one or the other.

[Fencers]

Oh not offended at all. I am a maniac though. I try almost everything MMO.

[Cuchulainn]

Very interesting. Downloading. Will touch back on this some time.

Oh not offended at all. I am a maniac though. I try almost everything MMO.

Then let me torture every one of your senses with...
http://www.hellokittyonline.com/
You can play that, or MoP when it comes out. Either way, they're pretty much the same thing.

[Malthurius]

Then let me torture every one of your senses with...
http://www.hellokittyonline.com/
You can play that, or MoP when it comes out. Either way, they're pretty much the same thing.

Be careful about that. That's borderline game bashing.

I just realized how horribly off-topic this thread has gotten as well...

[Fencers]

Then let me torture every one of your senses with...
http://www.hellokittyonline.com/
You can play that, or MoP when it comes out. Either way, they're pretty much the same thing.

Played it. it's cutesy/fun. Like 2-D Wizard 101 but more girl focused.

IGN: Fencers@hellokitty.com if you ever want to PM me and play dress-up.



I am way hardcore.

Smoochies. ;D

[Roose]

If they do what they say they are going to do the game will be flying off shelves faster than they can stock it.

[Leben]

Its a misconception that an MMO needs a monthly fee in order to keep its servers running. Sure, they need some incoming cash and Arenanet intend to get that from the initial sales of the game, expansion sets and the ingame shop. Thats 3 different sources of revenue right there.

There are plenty of games out there that require no monthly fee, no initial purchase and have a cosmetic items only ingame shop. Ive just recently returned to playing DC Universe Online following my initial purchase a year ago when it first came out. DCUO was launched as a subscription based MMO that required an initial purchase. I got bored of the game then and quit, cancelling my subscription. Ive just returned to the game and its now using the f2p model. Ive already made a few optional purchases. Sony themselves reported a 700% increase in daily revenue as a result of changing the game to f2p from the subscription model.

You DO NOT need a monthly subscription to keep the servers running. You may not be able to support the vast amount of GMs that Blizzard employs on an F2P/B2P model, but you can still employ people to police the game and handle customer issues

[Cuchulainn]

Off topic: I can't believe you've actually played Hello Kitty Online. I've had that link saved for Runescape griefing purposes for at least a year now. Shame on you!

On Topic: This discussion has been beat so many times, it's almost like I've entered the Twilight Zone. I guess I'll contribute by saying that GW2 isn't going to be hindered by no sub. Subs are just an old dinosaur model used back in the day when things actually cost companies a lot of money (bandwidth, server maintenance, etc). At this point, subs are still being used in order to screw you over for an extra buck. After all, MMO gamers are the only gamers that'll justify paying for something (P2P) is better than getting it for "free" (B2P), and for the most ridiculous reasons; reasons circa 1996.

The sub model isn't even fair nowadays. I completely understand making a buck/turning over a profit, but when it's THAT much money into your pocket [insert imaginary number here pertaining to Blizzard's profits] then you're just too damn greedy. I would totally understand if WoW's sub was say...$4-6 bucks a month, but once you start making money, and you can fool people into keep paying, then what's the point of lowering it?

It's just business, and ANet knows subs are a bullshit business.
So they don't have one.

[Bullettime]

Off topic: I can't believe you've actually played Hello Kitty Online. I've had that link saved for Runescape griefing purposes for at least a year now. Shame on you!

On Topic: This discussion has been beat so many times, it's almost like I've entered the Twilight Zone. I guess I'll contribute by saying that GW2 isn't going to be hindered by no sub. Subs are just an old dinosaur model used back in the day when things actually cost companies a lot of money (bandwidth, server maintenance, etc). At this point, subs are still being used in order to screw you over for an extra buck. After all, MMO gamers are the only gamers that'll justify paying for something (P2P) is better than getting it for "free" (B2P), and for the most ridiculous reasons; reasons circa 1996.

The sub model isn't even fair nowadays. I completely understand making a buck/turning over a profit, but when it's THAT much money into your pocket [insert imaginary number here pertaining to Blizzard's profits] then you're just too damn greedy. I would totally understand if WoW's sub was say...$4-6 bucks a month, but once you start making money, and you can fool people into keep paying, then what's the point of lowering it?

It's just business, and ANet knows subs are a bullshit business.
So they don't have one.

Some games like WoW wouldn't work under any other model than subscription based because of how the gearing process and raiding are. In a game like Diablo 3 or Guild Wars, it's perfectly fine to buy additional colors for your gear and buy gear as a whole. In WoW, it couldn't a model like that without handing massive progression advantages to whoever is richer irl. In order to maintain profits, they would be undermining the main reasons why players raid; gear and accomplishment via raid progression.

That just adds to what I posted earlier that technically none of the models are wrong. You just have to make sure your game is built with that payment model in mind. It all depends on the game and the developer behind it.