Dolphins and Human Rights - a possible reality?

[Larynx]

Maybe we should be more concerned with equality among humans before we start giving animals legal rights?

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive, so... point?

---------- Post added 2012-02-21 at 10:26 PM ----------

A human in the middle of the ocean alone is at the bottom of the food chain. Just sayin~

Unless he's Aquaman.

[Amsden]

We need to get Human rights straightened out first.

[Lightwysh]

I dont think you can eat dolphin meat, so there rly is no reason to kill them in the first place.

I'm pretty sure you could eat it if you really wanted. How it tasted I would have no clue. I agree animals deserve some rights but full on human rights is a bit on the hippy side.

[Joathen]

Anybody read this and immediately think of John Varley's nine worlds series of books?

One day, the aliens will come to liberate the dolphins and whales. It is on that day, that we shall be thoroughly screwed.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure you could eat it if you really wanted. How it tasted I would have no clue. I agree animals deserve some rights but full on human rights is a bit on the hippy side.

Yeah I'm not quite sure that it's suggesting 'full-on' Human Rights (or 'Cetacean Rights' so to speak), more something loosely based around that concept which prevents the acts of murder, slavery, and captivity.

The Captivity thing I'm not quite sure about, I'm pretty sure even if it came about that they'd still be in Sea-World, only they would be considered employees and would have to willingly demonstrate their compliance with working there.

Sounds silly, but I'm pretty sure they'd find a way around it, hell, they can make Dolphins do anything at Sea-World.

[Landin55]

A little off topic but I've always felt a bit queasy about eating dragon flank in WoW . . . wouldn't that count as cannibalism? Dragons are sentient after all. And while I would like a bite of Alexstrazsa's ass (if you know what I mean) that's not quite how I imagined it.

OT: The question is, are they intelligent enough to be anywhere near a human intelligence? They are very smart from what I understand but they are still . . . animals for lack of a better word. Cognitive reasoning and logic isn't enough, ants can do that after all. I'd say, in order to be on our level, they have to understand more abstract concepts and at a high degree.

There is a cannibalism food vendor....WoW has taken their stance on this =P lol

[Sunseeker]

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive, so... point?

If we are unable to make the majority of humanity equalish, it's the height of arrogance to think that we can protect the rights of creatures we still can't truly communicate with.

[Larynx]

If we are unable to make the majority of humanity equalish, it's the height of arrogance to think that we can protect the rights of creatures we still can't truly communicate with.

I still don't see the issue.

[Deleted]

If we are unable to make the majority of humanity equalish, it's the height of arrogance to think that we can protect the rights of creatures we still can't truly communicate with.

On paper, every human being does have the same rights. The willingness of states and individuals to respect said rights to the required level however, is probably unobtainable.

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand your point and agree. But I don't see human tyranny or oppression ever being a factor that is absent from our world.

[Snugglees]

I'm not 100% sure about this but I heard somewhere that some dolphins have a higher IQ than some very dim humans. Anyone able to find a source for this?

[Azivalla]

Good god, its an animal. It isn't a human. It deserves nothing of my rights. All it needs is to be treated fairly and not hunted to extinction.

[Kuntantee]

what the hell? Those who came up with this idea even less intelligent than dolphins. The guy above me says the truth, they're animals not
"OMG DOLHPINS ARE F*CUKIN GENIUSES"...

[Julian Rayne]

If dolphins are so smart then why do they live in igloos?

[Deleted]

Humans are at the top of the food chain. Deal with it.

Actually humans are naturally herbivores so they are at the bottom of the food chain. They aren't even omnivores based on the teeth and stomach and other anatomical facts. Humans just started eating meat at some point because their tools allowed it (spears, rocks for hunting, knives and other stuff for processing).

But OT, I'm all for it. I hope they give the same right to apes, monkeys and some other intelligent species in the future if it passes. Well, any mammal above vermins really.

[Sunseeker]

Actually humans are naturally herbivores so they are at the bottom of the food chain. They aren't even omnivores based on the teeth and stomach and other anatomical facts. Humans just started eating meat at some point because their tools allowed it (spears, rocks for hunting, knives and other stuff for processing).

Your claim demands scientific evidence.

[Zeek Daniels]

If only animals gave a crap about us as much as we gave a crap about them. Why are humans holding themselves to a higher standard? Just because we have a society? Dolphins have a society and sure maybe they don't run lab experiments on fish, but i have heard stories of them playing with prey before they eat it. Im pretty sure dolphins dont give a crap about the food that they are eating when its being eaten. Why do we have to care so much about other animals that will eventually die out anyway just like us.

Btw my favorite animal is a dolphin btw. So cute and smart. Only reason i even came to this thread.

[cherb]

I'd say we should be concerned with equal rights for people across the world before we start worrying about equal rights for marine animals.

Also, dolphins will fly away and simply thank us for the fish we have fed them throughout history if the going gets bad enough for them

[Spritely]

I dont think you can eat dolphin meat, so there rly is no reason to kill them in the first place.

For a long time now one of the ways of hunting/fishing tuna has been to go where schools of dolphins are and start casting nets. Many dolphins have died to this practice. "Dolphin Safe" tuna simply means that they don't search out dolphins first to find the tuna, not that no dolphins were harmed in the process. Many dolphins still die every year to tuna fishers.

Anyway, I find that whole idea weird. Why would it stop them from being used for entertainment purposes? By that logic, no humans should ever be in the entertainment business. Dolphins are extremely social creatures, they LIKE that social interaction they get from learning these things and performing them. They're paid for their work also (hello food). Not all dolphins in captivity would survive if they were released.

[Deleted]

If only animals gave a crap about us as much as we gave a crap about them. Why are humans holding themselves to a higher standard? Just because we have a society? Dolphins have a society and sure maybe they don't run lab experiments on fish, but i have heard stories of them playing with prey before they eat it. Im pretty sure dolphins dont give a crap about the food that they are eating when its being eaten. Why do we have to care so much about other animals that will eventually die out anyway just like us.

Btw my favorite animal is a dolphin btw. So cute and smart. Only reason i even came to this thread.

As in reality, nobody really gives a crap about anybody, the last century alone has showed us this; while dolphins may play with food, we round up members of our own species and execute them en-mass for reasons they otherwise cannot control.

Eco-systems are incredibly delicate, whilst it inevitably will not be possible to 100% safeguard them, minimising the damage is fairly significant due to the ripple effects that effect countless other factors. Extermination of predators in certain parts of the world has led to an unsustainable number of grazers for example, which have in turn over harvested the land and caused damage to both the people, and the other wildlife.

Just because we can't shove an animal in an enclosure and breed them en-mass for food doesn't mean they're not important.

Anyway, I find that whole idea weird. Why would it stop them from being used for entertainment purposes? By that logic, no humans should ever be in the entertainment business. Dolphins are extremely social creatures, they LIKE that social interaction they get from learning these things and performing them. They're paid for their work also (hello food). Not all dolphins in captivity would survive if they were released.

The argument in this instance is regarding slavery, many animal rights group liken the captivity of animals to holding them against their will, hence slavery or the denial of freedom.

[Syroco]

Just found this whilst trawling the BBC site, piqued my interest:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-17116882

The consensus of a meeting in Canada is that dolphins and Cetaceans in general should have their own Declaration of Rights which would ultimately prevent them from being used in entertainment purposes, wholly protect them from hunting, and (hopefully) guarantee them absolute freedom as a normal person should do.

This is based upon scientific investigations into the complexity and brain capacity of dolphins, among some remarkable stories is the realisation that Cetaceans understand a concept of 'self', as humans do.

Any thoughts? Not quite sure where I stand on the issue, I recognise that these are incredibly intelligent beings, however as a human, I don't frequently get myself entangled in tuna nets. The implications of 'accidents' where the death of a whale / dolphin might be accidentally caused by mundane means could be quite drastic if they are by law, given some of the same protection as human beings are.

I want you try to see a tuna net in the deep waters of the ocean. Dolphins recognize themselves in mirrors, and know when alterations have been made to their bodies (such as markings, etc.) They also have senses of humor and play pranks and do things just for the fun/pleasure of it. (Sex, tag games, messing with fish, pranking other dolphins.) This is only characteristic in Humans and DOLPHINS, as a species to be able to evolve to this degree has to have no primitive instincts that keeps them in Fight/Flight mode 24/7 (as all species do besides Humans, entirely) meaning Dolphin's brains have evolved from this fight/flight auto mode and are now on the next level. Domestic dogs don't even have this (they're only comfortable around Humans, etc. because of years of select breeding for traits, and their pact instinct.) Also, we don't fully understand Dolphin communication, but there is tons of evidence and witnesses to Dolphins intricately communicating with each other. They also have an ability to understand Human language and grammatical sentence structure. They know the difference between (S, O, V) and (S, V, O) even if they're changed around on the fly. Dolphins also use tools and advanced problem solving. They build mud mounds to trap fish and use their tails to swat at fish and make them scared and vulnerable so another dolphin can make the catch. Dolphins have also saved people that were drowning, knowing they were in distress. Tons of other things. They are the second smartest species on this Earth, by far. They have communities and families, and make friends. They don't build or anything because they live in the ocean. There are tons of videos on YouTube detailing this, as well as articles. Go look!