2012 MLB Winter Meetings and Offseason

[Rennadrel]

The Jays have struggled hitting wise this year too. They could have swept the Mets but couldn't get a run in to tie the game in the bottom of the 9th with 2 guys on base and no outs.

[koodledrum]

I'm just going to use this to point out the reason the Yankees are so hated by so many. None of those three came up with the Yankees system.

Sorry your team isn't doing as well as you want, though. Speaking of which... my team used its backup catcher as a pitcher today. lol.

We all know why no one likes the Yankees, but ultimately it's a case of we earn the money yet we're damned when we spend it - life aint fair like that, unfortunately the ethos is to slaughter those who spend money they accumulate. However you could point to the fact that while neither came through the Yankees organisation, the addition of Granderson did cost us two players, one who had already seen big league action & the other who has blossomed into a fine CF in his own right.

I hadn't seen anyone speak about it, but what the hell was that ump playing at the other day cussing Charlie Manuel out like that, i know both got suspended for a game, but that ump was absolutely out of order "you think i wanted to block his ass, what the hell you yellin at?" - that's one guy who shouldn't be umpiring again!

[belfpala]

I hadn't seen anyone speak about it, but what the hell was that ump playing at the other day cussing Charlie Manuel out like that, i know both got suspended for a game, but that ump was absolutely out of order "you think i wanted to block his ass, what the hell you yellin at?" - that's one guy who shouldn't be umpiring again!

He was on the crew for the Twins/Brewers series this weekend. He behaved himself.

[Rennadrel]

The umpires have been brought into question on more then a few occasions already and it's still early in the season. Seems like hockey isn't the only sport with officiating problems at the professional level.

[conscript]

I hadn't seen anyone speak about it, but what the hell was that ump playing at the other day cussing Charlie Manuel out like that, i know both got suspended for a game, but that ump was absolutely out of order "you think i wanted to block his ass, what the hell you yellin at?" - that's one guy who shouldn't be umpiring again!

I can't believe Selig actually suspended Davidson for a game. The guy has been acting like that for years. I can not stand the umps in baseball who constantly try and upstage players or managers with their antics. Joe West is the worst. Splitting him and Angel Hernandez up was a great move last year, but they should have just fired them both since they are remarkably incompetent. I'll never forgive Jim Joyce for blowing Galaraga's perfect game, seriously how do you blow the 27th out when usually the ump just gives that call to the first baseman anyways even if it is close, but he is about the only umpire in recent memory to show any sort of humility and admit he made a mistake. Most of the other umps would bury their head in the sand or say they called it as they saw it rather than admitting they were wrong and cost the guy a piece of history.

---------- Post added 2012-05-21 at 02:29 PM ----------

The umpires have been brought into question on more then a few occasions already and it's still early in the season. Seems like hockey isn't the only sport with officiating problems at the professional level.

Hockey's issues pale in comparison to baseball. With Hairy Fraser gone, the main problem in the NHL is calls being inconsistent from game to game and the intent to blow rule. With baseball the problem is the umps are just flat out wrong a whole hell of a lot on calls that aren't even close. Like last week when the ump completely blew two strike calls on the Blue Jay who got suspended for throwing his helmet. Strike 2 was literally in the batter's box, 6-8 inches off the plate. Or the week before that when an ump called a runner out when the first baseman was two feet or more off the bag. At least the NHL isn't calling penalties on completely phantom stuff or giving teams goals lol.

[belfpala]

I can't believe Selig actually suspended Davidson for a game. The guy has been acting like that for years. I can not stand the umps in baseball who constantly try and upstage players or managers with their antics. Joe West is the worst. Splitting him and Angel Hernandez up was a great move last year, but they should have just fired them both since they are remarkably incompetent. I'll never forgive Jim Joyce for blowing Galaraga's perfect game...

And Joyce is one of the most reliable umpires, routinely ranked among the best by the players and coaches. A shame that he blew that call, but he manned up and admitted it. I like him.

I have the "pleasure" of watching Ron Gardenhire get ejected several times per year. Most of the time when he goes on the field, he has his head down and his hands in pockets. He might gesture a couple times to point at a base or simulate trapping a ball instead of catching it. If you can read lips a bit, you can see all he's doing is asking what the umpire saw. Then he'll nod a couple times and walk back to the dugout. But sometimes... even when Gardy is already walking away... the umpire will say something to piss him off. Then Gardy gets mad and gets ejected.

(He does come flying out of the dugout already mad sometimes, but that's mostly when he's protecting a player already arguing with an umpire).

[koodledrum]

Lou Piniella was usually good for a laugh when he got tossed with the whole routine he used to go through but i agree with some of the calls, those strike calls against the Blue Jays were absolutely shocking, especially the punchout that was purely an "i'll show you for showing me up you little prick" call no doubt about it. But when the ump jaw jacks like that it's not right, he's got a responsibility to atleast act professionally and well, none of that language was particularly professional in my eyes! The NHL on the other hand, well, lets be honest some of their refs have among the toughest jobs in sports deciding what's clean & what's dirty with the speed that hockey is played at.

[draynay]

as for language, its nice when they're miced up, I think I heard a few choice words from Rob Shick a few years back, but I think the on ice officiating is in a good place (now that McCreary is gone, but then I really hold a grudge over one or two things)

baseball has problems on the field that no other sport can contend with, as long as the NBA refs don't have any bets going on the game anyway

[Rennadrel]

I can't believe Selig actually suspended Davidson for a game. The guy has been acting like that for years. I can not stand the umps in baseball who constantly try and upstage players or managers with their antics. Joe West is the worst. Splitting him and Angel Hernandez up was a great move last year, but they should have just fired them both since they are remarkably incompetent. I'll never forgive Jim Joyce for blowing Galaraga's perfect game, seriously how do you blow the 27th out when usually the ump just gives that call to the first baseman anyways even if it is close, but he is about the only umpire in recent memory to show any sort of humility and admit he made a mistake. Most of the other umps would bury their head in the sand or say they called it as they saw it rather than admitting they were wrong and cost the guy a piece of history.

---------- Post added 2012-05-21 at 02:29 PM ----------



Hockey's issues pale in comparison to baseball. With Hairy Fraser gone, the main problem in the NHL is calls being inconsistent from game to game and the intent to blow rule. With baseball the problem is the umps are just flat out wrong a whole hell of a lot on calls that aren't even close. Like last week when the ump completely blew two strike calls on the Blue Jay who got suspended for throwing his helmet. Strike 2 was literally in the batter's box, 6-8 inches off the plate. Or the week before that when an ump called a runner out when the first baseman was two feet or more off the bag. At least the NHL isn't calling penalties on completely phantom stuff or giving teams goals lol.

Yeah, the NHL is better without Kerry Fraser but it's still inconsistent. And Brett Lawrie should not have been suspended 4 games for that incident, he was completely in the right to be pissed off. We need to get some replay going on at home plate. I don't see why they can't just put cameras inside the strike zone.

[belfpala]

Yeah, the NHL is better without Kerry Fraser but it's still inconsistent. And Brett Lawrie should not have been suspended 4 games for that incident, he was completely in the right to be pissed off. We need to get some replay going on at home plate. I don't see why they can't just put cameras inside the strike zone.

He was right to be pissed off, but he wasn't right to throw equipment. He could have been suspended for that even if it didn't hit the umpire. I think the reason he got off with ONLY 4 games is because of how the ump himself behaved before the incident.

Replay at home plate? No.... unless you want 7 hour games. Automated ball and strike calling? Fine, they pretty much have that anyway when you watch the games on TV.

[draynay]

baseball is the only sport where I would rather they just replace all the umpires with automation, they're that unreliable, and they're that combative about it when someone disagrees

its not as if baseball is a fast paced sport anyway, they could afford to try out a challenge system like the NFL or tennis, there are plenty of examples of successful replay systems for them to follow, they wouldn't be starting from scratch

[belfpala]

its not as if baseball is a fast paced sport anyway, they could afford to try out a challenge system like the NFL or tennis, there are plenty of examples of successful replay systems for them to follow, they wouldn't be starting from scratch

Fly ball, trapped catch, umpire rules it caught. Replay overturns that. Where do you put the batter? Where do you put any base runners?

[Rennadrel]

Fly ball, trapped catch, umpire rules it caught. Replay overturns that. Where do you put the batter? Where do you put any base runners?

Back where they were before the play? It's as simple as that.

Also a challenge rule would have to be added to a new collective bargaining agreement between the league and the players union, unless they are able to add it to the existing agreement.

[belfpala]

Back where they were before the play? It's as simple as that.

You don't know if a guy makes it first to third, or if the batter only takes first or gets to second. You'd just reset the play, after making everyone wait for the umpires to leave the field and review? This is why I'm against expanding replay too much in baseball.

A limited challenge rule could be fine. Perhaps each manager could demand one review per game, but only on calls that change whether a run scores (tags at the plate) or calls that end an inning (third out). Again, still doesn't sit very well with me.

[koodledrum]

As annoying as it is you can't have IR for balls & strikes, that's just going to take too long although there should be a system in place whereby if umps are as bad as they were on the Lawrie call then they're removed from crews. You can hold IR for close out calls (traps, bang bangs etc) but instead of the lot of them trotting off the field there should be a video ump at every ground with a radio to the CC so that you can instantaneously have a yes/no decision, that would not take long and wouldn't really hold up the game. The technology exists to ensure a better game, yeah we all know there's "continuation of play" to concern ourselves with, but if you institute a system whereby poor ball & strike calling is punished then you'll find it will become a lot better & replay won't be needed for that purpose - only for close plays which ultimately if done properly won't be any different to the way players step out of the box to adjust every last bit of equipment between pitches!

[draynay]

As annoying as it is you can't have IR for balls & strikes, that's just going to take too long

in tennis they get results nearly instant, and on tv they've got the ball shown in or out of the strikezone quickly, the key would be implementing how often such a challenge can occur, its not like the batter is in the box ready for the next pitch an instant after the previous one, he's going to be pacing around anyway, the actual review wouldn't really slow things too much, as long as they correctly limited the number of allotted reviews things won't get any more bogged down than they are, and if there's a limit then they will be saved to try and overturn the more critical mistakes

[mrbadxampl]

wow, the Indians just swept the Tigers... beating Verlander for the final game! granted it was only a 2-1 win, but it counts...

I'm still hesitant to call my Tribe legit just yet, they are in first place but the Kitties haven't been doing much to put any pressure on, and a lot of the early-season winning is due to playing a lot of weak teams (my opinion). beating up on Kansas City and Minnesota isn't gonna make anyone a playoff contender...

still, even though it could all fall apart in one bad week, it's been interesting so far! now the fans just need to start showing up at the games...

[koodledrum]

What really humped the Indians yesterday though was the fact that in back to back pitches Verlander went from 102mph heat to an 83mph curveball in the 8th to i think it was Asdrubal Cabrera who just stood there like "yeah, that's gonna screw with your timing!" as the ump rung him up. So to win 2-1 against that sort of pitcher is pretty much a blowout win in anyones book!

[belfpala]

What really humped the Indians yesterday though was the fact that in back to back pitches Verlander went from 102mph heat to an 83mph curveball in the 8th to i think it was Asdrubal Cabrera who just stood there like "yeah, that's gonna screw with your timing!" as the ump rung him up. So to win 2-1 against that sort of pitcher is pretty much a blowout win in anyones book!

He's filthy.

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That's the 83 MPH curve after the 102 MPH fastball. Just ridiculous. He's walking to the dugout before it even crosses the plate. Asdrubel Cabrera's reaction says more than anything I could type.

Gameday has a "Nasty Factor" rating this year on pitches. Most pitchers are in the 40-60 range. Verlander routinely hits 90+, and it's a 1-100 scale.

[draynay]

Verlander has an awesome 12 to 6, I remember the first time I saw him pitch 6 years ago and it was absolutely filthy

I also remember an at bat Benito Santiago had against Eric Gagne where he got a 98 fast ball, 86 slider, and 73 curve consecutively and just flailed his bat before walking to the dugout

it also reminds me back when the Mariners would put Randy Johnson on the hill one night and then Jamie Moyer the next day, I'm pretty sure Dan Wilson would get motion sickness