GW2 Thief Discussion

[Kelesti]

Trust me, Bo, I'm exactly like that with my Mesmer, so I totally know how that is.

[Durzlla]

Trust me, Bo, I'm exactly like that with my Mesmer, so I totally know how that is.

I'm the same with ranger... it's gotten so bad that everytime i engage anything with any other prof i hit F1, and will hit F3 without even realizing it (until i'm on an ele, mesmer or guardian and completely fuck myself) whenever they use an aoe around themselves xD... oh pet micro habbits...

[Bugg]

Hello, I am a Thief specced into Condition dmg and using this setup:
http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#...Fo9MGGxVRVacRq

I usually roam Cursed Shore and gather resources and kill undeads 2-3 or more at a time. I eat Lotus fries for 30% MF and a bit of Cond. Dmg.
My gear has 0% additional MF, and I would like to know if there is a way to increase my MF using this spec.
If not, I would like to know what reccomanded PvE build focused of power / crit / survability would you guys reccomand for the above routine.

Am I better off using another profession for this ? warr / hunter maybe?

Thank you for your time.

[Lazuli]

This page has fallen too far into the abyss.

[TDevine]

New level 80 thief in full exotics. LF legit PvP build!

[Meledelion]

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/.../page__st__510
Most popular on that list are d/d baller with insanity wolf image
and sword/pistol PW spammer

[carnifex2005]

I just started using condition thief build and it's pretty nice so far. My survivability has shot up a lot in PVE and it does well in WvW too.

[Meledelion]

Conditions in pve=bad, for WvW I don't get why you'd go with conditions if you can oneshot people with straight up dmg...

[Lane]

My thief just hit 20. I'm not too worried with trait points at the moment since I can only place 10 in any given one, but when I hit 40 I'd like to have some sort of road map. Anyone know of any good post-patch suggested thief builds for PvE?

[Meledelion]

For leveling most people either go with a condi spec to spam leaping blossom (the 3skill on d/d) or a power build with the shortbow. I'm not sure if there's really a guide to the shortbow spec, I'd just go with the generic power build used for daggers (but use a bow) something like this but the LB condi one is this trickery is the "main" line and you want to spam caltrops on cd since it does lots of dmg. The idea is to sort of alternate 3spam with dodging to maximise bleed stacks

[Lane]

While I was trying to get map completion in WvW I came across what I can only describe as the most annoying thief ever. Stupid me, I thought between NPCs and 2-3 other players that I didn't need to worry about one thief, but the damn thing was literally unkillable. None of us at any point came anywhere near bringing this player to even 50% HP.

Does anyone have any idea what spec s/he might have been using? I know at least one of their weapon sets was pistol/dagger based on the attacks I saw used in the combat log. Other than that, I just know they popped in and out of stealth so much I could not get hardly anything to land. The rest of my combat log is filled with "You must have an enemy targeted to use that skill."

[zito]

While I was trying to get map completion in WvW I came across what I can only describe as the most annoying thief ever. Stupid me, I thought between NPCs and 2-3 other players that I didn't need to worry about one thief, but the damn thing was literally unkillable. None of us at any point came anywhere near bringing this player to even 50% HP.

Does anyone have any idea what spec s/he might have been using? I know at least one of their weapon sets was pistol/dagger based on the attacks I saw used in the combat log. Other than that, I just know they popped in and out of stealth so much I could not get hardly anything to land. The rest of my combat log is filled with "You must have an enemy targeted to use that skill."

It's the standard pistol/dagger condition build where they cloak and dagger every 3 seconds. The best way to counter them is to chain CC him until he pops shadow refuge, then use a knockback/pull in shadow refuge to get him out and finish him.

But theif stealth is out of control imo. Cloak and dagger should be nerfed and defenses in other places should compensate.

[Meledelion]

But theif stealth is out of control imo. Cloak and dagger should be nerfed and defenses in other places should compensate.

Stealth is bugged (has been since beta) in that after you open up on a target (or use C&D again) you remain invisible although you should already be visible.

If you use c&d you get 3s of stealth, if you now break stealth by attacking with 2s of stealth left you'll remain stealthed for 1s although you should be visible.

Good ways of countering thieves are conditions and CC. The issue with p/d is that CC (immo/cripple) doesn't effect them all that much in comparison to other thief builds.

The biggest issue with p/d is that there are various different builds that all have slightly different counters.

[Lane]

I see what you mean about variations as I'm having a difficult time finding any sort of "cookie cutter" P/D build. I've seen a lot of D/P builds posted, but after watching some videos that spec honestly looks too complicated for me as a thief novice. x_x (Either that or the people I watched are just too 'pro' for me. :P) P/D looked simple and effective enough to toy around with at least.

The closest I've come to finding 'it' is a 0/0/30/20/20 build, but people post the numbers like everyone's automatically supposed to know what traits they chose with that build. Thief's the class I have the least amount of experience with, in fact, mine's not even 80 yet (just hit 62 and have only been doing S/D & SB).

Other than that, since I know that thief applied Torment to me I'm assuming they used Skale Venom, which I also saw in a P/D video along with Blinding Powder and Shadowstep (surprisingly no Shadow Refuge). Looks like Thieves Guild is the elite and Carrion is the gear set.

[Lazuli]

It's the standard pistol/dagger condition build where they cloak and dagger every 3 seconds. The best way to counter them is to chain CC him until he pops shadow refuge, then use a knockback/pull in shadow refuge to get him out and finish him.

But theif stealth is out of control imo. Cloak and dagger should be nerfed and defenses in other places should compensate.

I disagree, thieves force bad players to use their brain and stealth is fine. I would be all for the removal of stealth and we turn into assassins from GW1 though.

(replying to multiple posts)

I also disagree that stealth is bugged, I've played WvW extensively the past few days and every time a thief comes out of stealth on me I see him immediately.

Only bad players use thieves guild either shadow refuge and let him waste it or run away if you are another class, bask venom is #1 elite and condition specs are terrible but if you insist on playing one http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/thi...0|0|0|0|0|0|0| if they can even touch you with that build you are doing it wrong. Full carrion, btw shadow strike adds torment now no one uses skale venom. You want to use it right after a sneak attack then into a dancing dagger so whatever conditions they remove won't be your bleeds.

Torment confuses me though, I've noticed a stun break removes it but some condition removal traits don't... not sure if bugged or?

If you are in a tight spot, just chain stealth all day and regen health. Traits can be moved to w/e fits your playstyle.

Lyssa runes are best to be matched with bask venom - all boons and the aegis has saved me countless times, also comes with condition duration increase I believe.. but I don't use it for that.

e; 1 more thing, I was playing spvp last night and noticed withdraw removed my torment at one point when no one else was around me, so maybe it's considered a movement impair effect? Since it does more damage to moving targets. All the more reason to use withdraw imo..

[Lane]

Only bad players use thieves guild either shadow refuge and let him waste it or run away if you are another class, bask venom is #1 elite and condition specs are terrible but if you insist on playing one http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/thi...0|0|0|0|0|0|0| if they can even touch you with that build you are doing it wrong. Full carrion, btw shadow strike adds torment now no one uses skale venom. You want to use it right after a sneak attack then into a dancing dagger so whatever conditions they remove won't be your bleeds.

Ah, I didn't notice that Shadow Strike added Torment.

A few questions:

1. Acrobatics: Is Assassin's Reward just terrible or something? I'm not sure I've seen it in anyone's build, but it sounds like it should be good. O_o
2. Trickery: Why not Thrill of the Crime?
3. Shadow Arts: Why not Cloaked in Shadow? That's one I hear is in most builds and supposedly significantly adds to your not being hit much.
4. I don't understand what's so great about Spider Venom. If it's just the fact that it's a poison couldn't you use a weapon swap sigil or (less convenient) short bow?

Thanks for the build, btw, just trying to understand why stuff is better/worse than other stuff.

[Lazuli]

Yes assassin's reward gives you a pathetic amount of health, not worth it. They should really fix this trait.

Thrill of the crime is good trait and can easily replace Uncatchable (with the loss of more cripple and bleed)

Cloaked in shadow is a good trait as well, like I said it's all personal preference, don't be afraid to switch traits around and find what you like. I usually dodge after a cloak though and use endurance on heal trait which lasts 10 seconds, and my heal is on 15s cd. So I have dodges out the ass, no need for blind. That is crit build though.

Utility should be whatever you want. since you should be running with short bow you can easily just poison with that, you could use sigil but I prefer endurance and 10% bleed.

There is an issue though that you want those conditions on last, not first. The way conditions work you want bleed first (last to be removed by enemy) then stack whatever you can after that. Poison, cripple, torment, all of which are at your instant disposal by using the venom+dancing dagger+shadowstrike. Blind too if you use cloak.

No prob any questions just ask. I've tested a lot of bleed specs and this seems to be the tankiest while putting out decent damage from all the might you get on dodge & stealth. You can cloak, dodge a couple times, still have a dodge up and have 4 stacks then sneak attack, you can get up to 8-10 and keep it there if you stay on target so it's good sustained. Your mobility is on meth with shadowstep and dodges so you shouldn't be going down that often. If in doubt.. run lol..

Practice makes perfect expect a lot of stale mates by good players using this build, takes long to kill someone that has good condi removal. They may not be able to kill you but neither can you kill them.

[Lane]

Another quick question (for now :P), do you think taking 5 points out of Trickery and putting it in Deadly Arts is worth it to get 100% bleed duration? That's something else I see suggested a lot.

[Lazuli]

You can just use food if you need more, not sure if you really meant 100% but it would be 5% and I personally wouldn't drop the condition damage for duration.

Condition duration is capped at 100% and here's how to reach it without changing traits:

Bowl of Garlic Kale Sautee
Nourishment (1 h):
+40% Condition duration
+70 Condition Damage
+10 Experience from kills

10% on weapon sigil

Armor runes: 2x sup rune of the centaur, krait, or afflicted. Equals out to to 30% duration.

2x giver's daggers (20%) the only downside to these is they have precision on them instead of condition damage.

Alternatively you could use 1 giver and 2x 10% sigils on weapons

You could change traits and try it out see if you like it, not sure how much lower or higher the damage would come out to be.

[Meledelion]

Snip

Stealth is bugged, you can disagree all you want but there's plenty of video proof floating the web. We're talking about 1-2-3 attacks that are gained due to stealth. It's not unheard of that someone will C&D + Steal (Invis now) + BS + HS you to death without "leaving" stealth. The thief won't see this though, (just like you sometimes are no longer stealthed on your screen but are to others) which is probably why you think "it's not bugged".

This bug is greatly lag related and is similar to "getting shot behind a corner". On your screen you're behind the corner but on the other player's screen you're not.

The problem with your SR idea is that 1. not all classes have SR (Lane didn't specify if what prof she was playing) 2. Opens you up for tons of dmg through either SB spam or CT spam (which means you either step out of SR making your idea useless, or the other guy starting with a 20%(let's be honest it'll probably be more like 40-50% hp start).

The current meta revolves around p/d conditions since they're simply a pest to deal with in WvW

Conditions follow a removal rule, in general bleeds always get removed first unless there is blind/weakness up (It's not LIFO as you'd expect)

@Lane
1. It is 67 health/initiative used is very lackluster
2. Fury Swiftness and Might don't benefit you that much in comparison to more bleed stacks
3. The idea is to stay at range so blind won't really help that much, it's far better to heal shit tons while stealthed
4. Both your ideas make you give up your "main" weapon. SV is great since there aren't many alternatives for a 3rd slot anyway