Mesmer Discussion Thread

[zito]

Zito if they were to do what you want they'd need to nerf phantasams... and frankly i'd rather they didn't because i prefer dropping a clone (which greatly helps with survivability unless i'm using duelist, yes duelist not warden) in exchange for damage... like sure your idea is all nice and sparkly and all the mesmers would foam at the mouth about how they can have both their sword and shield but really, it just seems like shit. I mean your idea flat out destroys the phantasm build, like it can not even be salvaged from that wreck, not to mention the whole "Who the hell brings utility phantasms anyway?" argument, essentially making a worthless slot that no one but like 2 people would ever use.

As for the whole "Oh no shattering phantasms is awful blah blah blah blah blah" seriously give me a break, you just think it's awful because you either A) don't know what you're talking about, B) seem to be under the illusion that a phantasm is far greater then a shatter in any scenario, or C) Don't seem to pay attention to the fact you can shatter your phantasms right before they die and get more of an effect out of them...

I don't feel like repeating myself yet again so i'm just going to leave my post at that... if you want to see my scenarios for why you'd shatter phantasms just go read back on it...

I have no problem shattering phantasms for utility. However the current way phantasms and shatters work is shit. It is now use phantasms on cd's and if you have a phantasms out its better then mind wreck damage unless the target is low health and phantasms attack isn't about to come off cd.

And no they don't need to nerf phantasms because you can have a phantasms up 24/7 NOW as long as it doesn't die however you are sacrificing a clone spot which is actually stupid. In fact you can have 3 up if a mob lives long enough so yea its a small indirect nerf to phantasms builds but does the current design work, hell no.

My idea would promote phantasm usage when you need it and not on cd, give scepter an indirect buff by making its clones more useful, give shattering a buff because now phantasms are not tied with shatters so now shatters builds will be efficient. All at the cost of not having the potential of 3 phantasms up at one time. Now its limited to 2.

Sorry I don't see your point.

[Durzlla]

I have no problem shattering phantasms for utility. However I the current want phantasms and shatters work is shit. It is now use phantasms on cd's and if you have a phantasms out its better then mind wreck damage unless the target is low health and phantasms attack isn't about to come off cd.

And no the don't need to nerf phantasms because you can have a phantasms up 24/7 NOW as long as it doesn't die however you are sacrificing a clone spot which is actually stupid. In fact you can have 3 up if a mob lives long enough so yea its a small indirect nerf to phantasms builds but does the current design work, hell no.

My idea would promote phantasm usage when you need it and not on cd, give scepter an indirect buff by making its clones more useful, give shattering a buff because now phantasms are not tied with shatters so now shatters builds will be efficient. All at the cost of not having the potential of 3 phantasms up at one time. Now its limited to 2.

Sorry I don't see your point.

They'd have to nerf phantasms because atm your have to give up a clone, which is essentially a shield between you and the enemy, NPCs see clones as more threatening then you/easier to kill where they'll, for the most part, ignore phantasms, not to mention in pvp if you're using phantasms it goes without saying no one is going to mistake you for a phantasm... clones are there as your line of defense, phantasms are there for your raw offense (warden and defender have some defensive stuff in there too so they're kinda outliers.... ESPECIALLY the defender....)

I personally do not use phantasms on CD because that'd just be stupid especially with how much i shatter... i'll throw my illusionary mage or warlock out there sure but i'd hardly say i use them on CD, especially seeing as how my illusions don't stay alive long enough for me to even become remotely attached to them... it's like a necromancer, except my minions look as sexy as i do!

And as for mindwracks damage it scales better then phantasms do... so yeah... i just kinda use it either as a 1) "The mobs almost dead lets kick it into the grave!" or 2) "I have 3 illusions and can summon 2-3 more in like 2 seconds, and cry of frustration is on CD" i think it goes without saying that 1) is used a lot more then 2) is, but that's just because i like to ensure they die when they get low enough...

As for the scepter buff i personally think it'd be hilarious if the scepter clones made their own clones... so it'd be a clone of clone of a clone, it'd be like a cloneception, however i doubt that'd ever happen... so i can only dream....

[zito]

And as for mindwracks damage it scales better then phantasms do... so yeah.

Depends on the phantasms, zerker and warden? No. Mage and warlock? yea.

As for the scepter buff i personally think it'd be hilarious if the scepter clones made their own clones... so it'd be a clone of clone of a clone, it'd be like a cloneception, however i doubt that'd ever happen... so i can only dream....

I meant you would have an extra clone slot not occupied by phantasms.

They'd have to nerf phantasms because atm your have to give up a clone, which is essentially a shield between you and the enemy, NPCs see clones as more threatening then you/easier to kill where they'll, for the most part.

They don't have to nerf phantasms because you get an extra meat shield. That is silly. Not to mention NPCs are attacking my phantasms just as much as my clones, the problem is most of the time its 2 clones to 1 phantasms so it seems like they target clones more but in reality you just have more clones.

not to mention in pvp if you're using phantasms it goes without saying no one is going to mistake you for a phantasm... clones are there as your line of defense, phantasms are there for your raw offense (warden and defender have some defensive stuff in there too so they're kinda outliers.... ESPECIALLY the defender....)

Phantasms are not suppose to be mistaken for yourself, that is a given and getting off from my point. Phantasms are suppose to be killed because they are deadly though. I also suggested the shattering component to my phantasms idea which gives different utility.

[Durzlla]

Depends on the phantasms, zerker and warden? No. Mage and warlock? yea.



I meant you would have an extra clone slot not occupied by phantasms.



They don't have to nerf phantasms because you get an extra meat shield. That is silly. Not to mention NPCs are attacking my phantasms just as much as my clones, the problem is most of the time its 2 clones to 1 phantasms so it seems like they target clones more but in reality you just have more clones.



Phantasms are not suppose to be mistaken for yourself, that is a given and getting off from my point. Phantasms are suppose to be killed because they are deadly though. I also suggested the shattering component to my phantasms idea which gives different utility.

Personally I would love to have the phantasms chain into a shatter, that'd be better IMO especially for the instances when I just want the phantasm gone....

PS: as for the scepter thing I was thinking like as a buff to scepter, not as something to do with the phantasm discussion debate thing.

[DrakeWurrum]

Actually, with zito's idea, phantasms might need a buff, simply because you'd be limited to one "weapon" phantasm and one "utility" phantasm (which may not be slotted at all), whereas currently you can have out three phantasms on a suitably long fight where you're lucky enough that they're not being targeted.

[Durzlla]

Actually, with zito's idea, phantasms might need a buff, simply because you'd be limited to one "weapon" phantasm and one "utility" phantasm (which may not be slotted at all), whereas currently you can have out three phantasms on a suitably long fight where you're lucky enough that they're not being targeted.

This may just be me... But I've never had a fight kind enough to allow me to have 3 of the same phantasm.... Now 3 phantasms totally, that's easy, Mage, warlock, defender boom, 3 casts done, not the same though!!

[Kelesti]

This may just be me... But I've never had a fight kind enough to allow me to have 3 of the same phantasm.... Now 3 phantasms totally, that's easy, Mage, warlock, defender boom, 3 casts done, not the same though!!

Not in PvP, but in PvE getting three swordsmen on a fight usually isn't that difficult thanks to the evade. Average up time is 2.4 up at a time. By the time one goes down (they benefit from their own pulsing regeneration), the cooldown to replace it is halfway over.

There are of course fights where it's not do-able (Flame Effigy's fire, most of Sorrow's Embrace). But outside of them, it's just a matter of time, and time is something I have.

[Durzlla]

Not in PvP, but in PvE getting three swordsmen on a fight usually isn't that difficult thanks to the evade. Average up time is 2.4 up at a time. By the time one goes down (they benefit from their own pulsing regeneration), the cooldown to replace it is halfway over.

There are of course fights where it's not do-able (Flame Effigy's fire, most of Sorrow's Embrace). But outside of them, it's just a matter of time, and time is something I have.

Eh, my build doesn't benefit as much from me trying to keep phantasms up all the time due to how much harder they are to keep up, and all that sort of thing, granted i always try to keep ONE out, especially the mage, he just flat out helps everyone!! But with the staff i tend to only keep one mage unless i'm in a group with condition heavy players in it (you know so i don't need to rely on placing the conditions on myself)

[zito]

Eh, my build doesn't benefit as much from me trying to keep phantasms up all the time due to how much harder they are to keep up, and all that sort of thing, granted i always try to keep ONE out, especially the mage, he just flat out helps everyone!! But with the staff i tend to only keep one mage unless i'm in a group with condition heavy players in it (you know so i don't need to rely on placing the conditions on myself)

Hense why phantasms should be separate, for you they are nothing more then shatter tools. With my idea you get your shatter tools and keep your mage.

[Durzlla]

Hense why phantasms should be separate, for you they are nothing more then shatter tools. With my idea you get your shatter tools and keep your mage.

Eh, i like being able to shatter my phantasms it makes way for new illusions, however if they were to go with the whole your phantasms chain into their own shatter then i'd have no issue with it, infact it'd hardly phase me.

[DrakeWurrum]

Eh, i like being able to shatter my phantasms it makes way for new illusions, however if they were to go with the whole your phantasms chain into their own shatter then i'd have no issue with it, infact it'd hardly phase me.

Well, you'd be able to shatter your clones AND your phantasms.

[Durzlla]

Well, you'd be able to shatter your clones AND your phantasms.

like i said, if it gives phantasms a chain skill by all means i'll take the change, because then i can choose when i wanna shatter my shield or my sword, which is just a win win instead of shattering both

[DrakeWurrum]

like i said, if it gives phantasms a chain skill by all means i'll take the change, because then i can choose when i wanna shatter my shield or my sword, which is just a win win instead of shattering both

Far as I can tell, you wouldn't be able to have both out, since zito is suggesting to limit to one weapon phantasm.

[Durzlla]

Far as I can tell, you wouldn't be able to have both out, since zito is suggesting to limit to one weapon phantasm.

Um... what? Sword = phantasm, Shield = army of clones

[DrakeWurrum]

Um... what? Sword = phantasm, Shield = army of clones

Oh, thought you meant Warden.

I guess he uses axes, but Mesmer tends to use it as a defensive shield against ranged attacks. :P

[Durzlla]

Oh, thought you meant Warden.

I guess he uses axes, but Mesmer tends to use it as a defensive shield against ranged attacks. :P

Ah i use it like i do whirling defense on my ranger (same skill) as an offensive D, it makes them leave me alone, 12 stacks of vuln + additional damage, and then the reflect ruins most peoples day..

[DrakeWurrum]

I think, however, going off zito's idea... that rather than limiting to a certain number of phantasms, just restrict each phantasm to only summon one of itself at a time. So like, you can have a Sword and a Berserker both out, but you can't have two Swords or two Berserkers.

[zito]

I think, however, going off zito's idea... that rather than limiting to a certain number of phantasms, just restrict each phantasm to only summon one of itself at a time. So like, you can have a Sword and a Berserker both out, but you can't have two Swords or two Berserkers.

Then it becomes use phantasms on cd again.

[DrakeWurrum]

Then it becomes use phantasms on cd again.

Eh, not really. There's no point to use your Sword Phantasm again if you can't have a second one out, because you already have one out.

If you're only limited to one, you'd still end up using the Sword on cooldown if you plan to consistently shatter it, so it's no different from yours - you're just not restricted to only having that one Phantasm.

I mean, it's either this, or buff phantasms, because you know everybody who enjoyed having all 2+ out at a time would bitch and moan.

[zito]

If you're only limited to one, you'd still end up using the Sword on cooldown if you plan to consistently shatter it, so it's no different from yours - you're just not restricted to only having that one Phantasm.

You won't be shattering it on cd, my shattering effect I added wasn't intended for something like that its more of situational.

also no changes for mesmers :/