Mesmer Discussion Thread

[Durzlla]

@Luedieniel just pointing this out, but he actually did say that greatswords were used for range.

[Eternal Champion]

Keep in mind that one of the Dueling traits that have been revealed is actually missing from the skill tool, and it's my favorite one so far: Deceptive Decoy Cloak and leave a clone of yourself behind at 25% health.

Mother of god..... i must have that....

I think it's one of those everyone will want to have. Hopefully they will add more good traits that should make it a hard decision.

[Durzlla]

I think it's one of those everyone will want to have. Hopefully they will add more good traits that should make it a hard decision.

i don't think -everyone- will want it, but there will be a good amount of people, and once we get the full list of traits it'd be easier to tell what the builds we actually want to use will be....

btw, how did you do that with your sig? i can't get any of the major traits to stay saved, and don't know how to put it in as a picture.

[DrakeWurrum]

btw, how did you do that with your sig? i can't get any of the major traits to stay saved, and don't know how to put it in as a picture.

Click on "BBCode"

[Eternal Champion]

Click on "BBCode"

And just paste it in your signature.

[luedieniel]

@Luedieniel just pointing this out, but he actually did say that greatswords were used for range.

Yup, I missed that, still doesn't change the fact that the greatsword isn't used as a ranged weapon but rather as a tool for spellcasting.

[DrakeWurrum]

you're however attempting to alter the class to suit your build rather than work with what is actually present in the game.

No, I'm hoping to see the full potential of this profession realized, rather than be hindered by such archaic thinking as "This weapon is only used this way."

The Mesmer, of all professions, is the best suited for this. They already use the greatsword as a magic-focusing tool instead of a melee weapon, as you say. If some person had come in, before the Mesmer's information was revealed, suggesting that the Mesmer be able to wield the greatsword in such a fashion, you'd likely be saying the same thing you're saying now: "The Mesmer needs to stay a caster, not a melee!" And yet when the Mesmer's information was revealed, you'd see the Mesmer wielding a greatsword, not as a sword, but as a focusing tool, and suddenly your argument against mesmer greatswords flies out the window.

To further this along, the Mesmer already is capable of wielding a pistol in one hand. There is nothing, at all, that could possibly prevent a mesmer from also wielding it in the other hand. Firearms are not hand-dependent, especially if you're going to use it for focusing magic rather than as a basic pistol.
You already suggested that the trick shot skill is done with magic rather than actually using it as a pistol, so it can't be that you're incapable of imagining magic bullets.


Also: Try to point out to me the real difference between being a "caster" and being "ranged" in this game. Because, frankly, there is no such distinction. You're melee, or ranged. In the case of GW2, rather than a class being only ranged or only melee, it's a weapon that is clearly defined into those roles. It doesn't matter if you're using magic to attack from range, or if you're shooting bullets to attack from range, you're still ranged.

I could understand if you were trying to make a distinction between physical or caster (a distinction NOT made in the game mechanics at all) but, again, you have no idea how a mesmer would use a pistol. How do you know the mesmer would even bother to use real bullets instead of magic bullets?

---------- Post added 2012-03-06 at 02:30 PM ----------

i don't think -everyone- will want it, but there will be a good amount of people, and once we get the full list of traits it'd be easier to tell what the builds we actually want to use will be....

btw, how did you do that with your sig? i can't get any of the major traits to stay saved, and don't know how to put it in as a picture.

It really depends on what they have to give up, yeah. Hopefully the 5 unrevealed traits, as well as the 7 that currently exist when their release state is revealed, can be attractive enough to make people think twice.

[Durzlla]

It really depends on what they have to give up, yeah. Hopefully the 5 unrevealed traits, as well as the 7 that currently exist when their release state is revealed, can be attractive enough to make people think twice.

Very true, it seems to me that most of the traits that mesmers have as confirmed are the traits i kinda shove to the back of the list. As in mesmer pretty much have all their X increases Y stat traits, where the other profs only have there "X happens after Y" (IE: When you dodge roll you spawn an undead horror), so i have a feeling come release mesmer is going to get all sorts of cool traits to play with instead of all these fairly bland stat increases...

NOTE: I'm not saying ALL mesmer traits are just boring stat increases, i think a few of them are really cool but i think a majority are pretty dull atm.

[luedieniel]

-snip-

We all do, but your presentation of why a mainhand pistol should be implemented is just not holding up, give the mesmer a bow instead, since there is already 5 skillslots and bowskills are in the game, there is no reason why it would be hard for them to smack together 5 skills to use.

Once again, you're not really happy with how the class is and you want to change it so it suits you better. That is all there is to it.
The mesmer doesn't need another weapon to achieve 'maximum potentional'. You might think it does but I disagree.

And on that note, again, do mesmers have less weapons than any other class? If not, why would you add another weapon to just this class and not grant all the other classes the same range of choices?

Also: Try to point out to me the real difference between being a "caster" and being "ranged" in this game. Because, frankly, there is no such distinction.

Well for starters you need to define what the difference between a caster and a ranged class is at all, in for example GW1 you divide into teams of 8 rather than single players but then you split them into 3 different 'ways': Casterway, Physway, and Ranged physway. There are a plethora of sub-cathegories under each one but these are the 'archeways' so to speak.
As the name itself states 2 of these 'ways' are physical, a melee version, and a ranged one.

Thus we can continue down the path saying that a ranged class is a character capable of dealing physical damage on range, whereas a caster is a character capable of dealing magic damage regardless of wether it is in melee or ranged. The majority of their damage should be from this source to be considered a caster. For example a mesmer with 3 skills that deal physical damage compared to 9001 magic damage spells, is hardly a melee character.

Now as for GW2 ranged vs melee is abit more vague than most games simply because they offer such versatility with the various physical classes.
Looking at the ranger for example it is traditionally a ranged class but in GW2 it has alot more options when it comes to melee than it would in other games, at a ratio of 5 weapons for ranged vs 3 for melee, I'd still consider it a primarily ranged profession tho. Altho fully capable of being played strictly as melee.(Greatsword / sword/dagger weapon combos).
Warrior would be the opposite, a melee character with the option of playing it strictly as ranged. In the warriors case the ratio would be 5(+shield) melee, 2 ranged.

One is melee and one is ranged but they're still both physical characters.
The distinction between physical ranged, physical melee and caster is still present however in GW2 the ability to rotate between physical ranged and physical melee offers the player more of a choice than customary in most other games.

you have no idea how a mesmer would use a pistol. How do you know the mesmer would even bother to use real bullets instead of magic bullets?

I don't, neither do you.
I question the necessity of implementing another weapon for the mesmerclass at all.
I see no issue with it in the future but I would expect another weapon to be implemented for all classes as a natural part of making an expansion for GW2, we'll see tho.

[ChiliPepper]

So i am looking for a very specific ability similarity from GW1.

I first asked in the Necro thread as the ability i want is Spiteful Spirit. Now my knowledge of GW1 tells me that mesmers have similar spells such as Backfire and empathy.

Basically for those that don't know, It causes damage to the foe when that foe uses a skill/attack/spell and sometimes does aoe damage (depends on the specifics of the skill), but it is a very fun mechanic in gw1 and i am looking to find a similarity in gw2, Necro doesnt seem to have it and i did not see anything when i went over the mesmer skills, So i ask... is it there and i missed it as a mesmer?

[DrakeWurrum]

So i am looking for a very specific ability similarity from GW1.

I first asked in the Necro thread as the ability i want is Spiteful Spirit. Now my knowledge of GW1 tells me that mesmers have similar spells such as Backfire and empathy.

Basically for those that don't know, It causes damage to the foe when that foe uses a skill/attack/spell and sometimes does aoe damage (depends on the specifics of the skill), but it is a very fun mechanic in gw1 and i am looking to find a similarity in gw2, Necro doesnt seem to have it and i did not see anything when i went over the mesmer skills, So i ask... is it there and i missed it as a mesmer?

What you're looking for are attacks that cause the Confusion condition.

I don't believe there's a version of that which will cause aoe damage, however.

Necros do have ONE skill that causes confusion (Warhorn, which actually applies it in an aoe), but the Mesmer has five, two of which are tied to the scepter. Mesmers also have 4 traits that cause confusion in non-standard ways. They might add more by release.


Retaliation is similar, but it's a boon that causes damage to people that hit you - I feel that it has a similar effect, especially if you're able to put Retaliation on allies.

[ChiliPepper]

What you're looking for are attacks that cause the Confusion condition.

I don't believe there's a version of that which will cause aoe damage, however.

Necros do have ONE skill that causes confusion (Warhorn, which actually applies it in an aoe), but the Mesmer has five, two of which are tied to the scepter. Mesmers also have 4 traits that cause confusion in non-standard ways. They might add more by release.


Retaliation is similar, but it's a boon that causes damage to people that hit you - I feel that it has a similar effect, especially if you're able to put Retaliation on allies.

i am so thrilled right now, you have no idea. this is exactly why i had a hard time finding it, because they turned it into a condition. This is great.

[grandpab]

A good mesmer overview - http://guildwars2pc.com/professions/mesmer/

[Pud'n]

Added!

Been awhile since anyone has posted in this thread >.<. But no biggie, this thread is still #1 over of the other profession discussion threads, based on page count .

[DrakeWurrum]

Added!

Been awhile since anyone has posted in this thread >.<. But no biggie, this thread is still #1 over of the other profession discussion threads, based on page count .

A page count that's been fluffed by a large debate about weapon options.

[Pud'n]

A page count that's been fluffed by a large debate about weapon options.

A victory nonetheless! I would rub this in the faces of those dam dirty thieves in their own thread, but then that would only bump their thread >.>.

[DrakeWurrum]

A victory nonetheless! I would rub this in the faces of those dam dirty thieves in their own thread, but then that would only bump their thread >.>.

That's okay. We don't share our plans publicly anyways. What you don't know can hurt you more than what you do!

In fact, it helps when you think you're winning.

And here I thought you Mesmers were deceitful...

[Pud'n]

That's okay. We don't share our plans publicly anyways. What you don't know can hurt you more than what you do!

In fact, it helps when you think you're winning.

And here I thought you Mesmers were deceitful...

A truly deceitful person fools everyone around him/her into believing their outwards public image. Though of course, us Mesmers are only deceitful whenever we aren't busy flaunting our greatness in the faces of you uncouth rabble .

[DrakeWurrum]

A truly deceitful person fools everyone around him/her, into believing their public image.

The question is... which image of the Thief is deceiving you, and which one is the real image?

[Pud'n]

Considering Thieves are unable to make multiple images of themselves (unlike Mesmers mind you), I'm going to assume the Thief that's kissing the heel of my boot is the real one o.0.