Mesmer Discussion Thread

[Deleted]

I had no issues from 1-15... And I was using a staff mainly... I will say that your survivability goes up when you can A) hide behind a group of people/illusions and B) mesmers tend to do better against mobs that don't die really quickly

Staff is nice indeed (love chaos storm), sadly most weapon combo's just don't seem to offer enough control and the damage just seems poor compared to other classes. Sword-sword is probably highest damage but I'm having to rely on Decoy in case I get more than 1 mob as thats not survivable with that combo.

I've been trying a Mesmer since BWE1 and playing it alongside my gf's Guardian the difference in damage is quite clear; at level 10, number 1 ability average hit for Guardian: ~50-60. Mesmer: ~15-20. I'd be kiting and hitting a single mob for 5 seconds, Guardian comes in when it's at half health and 1 shots it. I'm trying to detonate the illusions for extra damage as well but they seem intent on exploding somewhere not even close to the mob I'm targeting.

And personal quests where you need to fight waves of mobs are no problem on my Necro, keep dying on the Mesmer because there just aren't enough slows/cripples to kite, not enough survivability skills available and the damage is poor so stuff takes ages to die.

That's why I'm wondering if it gets better with traits and higher tier skills. I'm probably going to level one fully anyway as I'm a stubborn git but it would be nice to know what I'm getting into :P

[Deleted]

Anyone able to explain 'confusion' to me? I've searched the interwebz and I can't find a good guide on it. I hear it makes any player affected take damage every time they cast a skill?

Anyone got any precise info on it (such as builds, weapon sets, how viable the damage is and what it exactly does?!)

In the mean time here is a picture of my Mesmer.

Really apprecieate the picture. Yeah, confusion deals dmg whenever enemy use the skill, the damage digits are on violet background (or something with violet). You have to chech on your own if its viable, but surely its fun

[Deleted]

Yeah the first personal story quest where you got the waves of thieves was really hard on my mesmer, but guardian didn't even have to move. Personally I like staff with Gsword as off, just use your illusions asap, use them to pull and detonate when you have two out.

[Doylez]

I really don't get confusion. Why would I choose to do damage to the enemy only if he attacks instead of doing direct damage? In PvE you don't want the enemy to hit you at all, in PvP when a player gets low he usually stops attacking and tries to escape. Plus you don't have many attacks that apply confusion to begin with and it doesn't last very long... and even if confusion does trigger the damage just doesn't seem that great.

[Venali]

Confusion's damage is naturally higher than most other effects due to the fact it is reactionary. Plus, it's not like people will stop attacking when they have it on them - and if they do, even better.

I'm running the following build (Well, an early level version of it): http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/mes...0|1775|6|20|3|

I... I like it. I want to like it more, but as people have mentioned there are some drawbacks to blocking, which is what this is based around. I'm keeping it in place for a while to see if I will continue to like it or if it will feel worse as time goes on.

[DrakeWurrum]

I can't seem to enjoy the Staff, or the Greatsword. But maybe that's because I want illusions to be more important, and those two weapons very much do not rely very heavily on illusions.

Even the Staff, with it's Phantasm, does not - it simply doesn't stack up a large number of high duration conditions, nor maintain them, for that Phantasm to be really truly deadly. Maybe traits will make it better, but we'll see.

For now, I'm finding Sword/Sword and Scepter/X the most fun, as it allows me to actually make use of my profession mechanic. I will probably end up making a Mantra + Shatter build, except that the Shatter trait line also gives a lot of Malice. I guess I'll have to find a way to make that work.
Maybe a Mantra + Illusion build instead, with plenty of "+X% for active illusions" traits.

[deathtakes]

Is there a 'mind wrack' build? One where you pump out lots of clones/phantasms/illusions as possible then use mind wrack for huge damage? It would also be awesome it if was like a ranged defensive class. It would be similar to a bomb laying engineer.

I'll give it a go.

Can I just say that I'm loving the skills bound to weapons/traits system. It feels so diverse and interesting. I'm loving making all sorts of different combos and then tweaking it based on different utility abilities and trait choices. Just awesome.

[DrakeWurrum]

Theyre SUPPOSED to e like dots... The whole point of phantasms was to be a GW2 version of hexes, and since there's no despell you have to go smash them in the face. As for the clones, I don't mind them taking damage, they're really just expendable little pawns if you ask me and I prefer that they try to kill them then me because I can always create more of them...

What's bothering me is that they die so quickly and without warning to the point of, on certain weapons anyways, making Shatters absolutely impossible to pull off AT ALL, let alone with only one illusion (which makes shattering worthless, mind you).

On my Thief, Warrior, Guardian, Engineer, EVERYTHING else, I can use my profession skills easy, and often. The only way for them to stop me from using them is to kill me, down me, or prevent me from using actions at all.
For Mesmers, all they have to do is kill my illusions, which can be done with aoe, mind you, and I can't Shatter at all.

The reason I have an issue with this is that this prevents Shatter and Illusion centric builds from ever being truly viable, and also because it's a freaking profession mechanic. Most of the time, I don't get to use my profession mechanic, simply because my illusions can't stay alive, and I can't do anything to keep them alive.

[Nikijih]

I can't seem to enjoy the Staff, or the Greatsword. But maybe that's because I want illusions to be more important, and those two weapons very much do not rely very heavily on illusions.

Even the Staff, with it's Phantasm, does not - it simply doesn't stack up a large number of high duration conditions, nor maintain them, for that Phantasm to be really truly deadly. Maybe traits will make it better, but we'll see.

For now, I'm finding Sword/Sword and Scepter/X the most fun, as it allows me to actually make use of my profession mechanic. I will probably end up making a Mantra + Shatter build, except that the Shatter trait line also gives a lot of Malice. I guess I'll have to find a way to make that work.
Maybe a Mantra + Illusion build instead, with plenty of "+X% for active illusions" traits.

If you want an illusion-based build Scepter is your best bet as its the only weapon with a spammable summon (every 3rd hit).

As for the staff or GS, staff does indeed put up a LOT of conditions, but thats done mainly with Chaos armor and storm, not the ''1'' attack. GS is personally my 2nd favorite weapon after sword and I use it as a offhand. The phantasm does amazing AoE damage and the range + knockback allows you to kite a bit while your other CDs are refreshing.

You cannot compare it to a warrior, for exemple, in the sense that warriors are meant to do damage and pretty much only that. They have banners for boons, but other then that they offer very little actual utility. Mesmer, on the other hand, seems (to me) built from the ground up as a support class, in the sense that its entire toolset revolves around controling boons/conditions or CCing. So the mesmer damage CAN be really high, but you really need to build specifically for it (sword + pistol w/ power/precision traits).

P.S. to the guy comparing it to a guardian: our per-skill damage is indeed much lower then other classes because we can use more at the same time. If you pop Blurred Frenzy, you will do less damage then a warrior with Hundred-Blades (or w/e their 2h sword equivalent is called). However, if you pop Blurred Frenzy + 3x Mantra of Pain + triple Mind Wrack (all of which can be done at the same time), you will do a lot more damage.

Most of the time, I don't get to use my profession mechanic, simply because my illusions can't stay alive, and I can't do anything to keep them alive.

Then you and I are playing very different games... I play mesmersin, which uses Sword + Pistol and does not take any +health trait for illusions. Both in PvE, WvW and sPvP I have never had any trouble whatsoever poping 2-3 illusion mind wrack whenever I feel like it... Yeah, they are fragile: thats why you have a thousand ways to summon them! They are also not THAT fragile, in that it actually takes someone blowing a few skills to kill one, unless of course you are standing in a huge AoE pile. And if you are, i have to ask: why are you trying to play your mesmer as if it was a warrior/guardian?

[DrakeWurrum]

Then you and I are playing very different games... I play mesmersin, which uses Sword + Pistol and does not take any +health trait for illusions. Both in PvE, WvW and sPvP I have never had any trouble whatsoever poping 2-3 illusion mind wrack whenever I feel like it... Yeah, they are fragile: thats why you have a thousand ways to summon them!

Illusions work fine for the Scepter and Sword because you can generate illusions very rapidly. This is NOT the case with Staff or Greatsword.

Illusions being generated rapidly by specific weapons masks the real issue here. If EVERY weapon generated illusions so rapidly and easily, this would be much less of an issue, and I probably wouldn't be complaining at all.

And the only reason I really can't complain about being unable to keep them alive is the simple fact that they all die the moment my target does anyways. I still personally would prefer it if they were actual permanent pets. Can I help it if I love the idea of running around with four of myself?


At this point, I'm convinced they got Illusions and Shatters backwards. The profession mechanic buttons should be the buttons that generate illusions, and the weapon skills should be the buttons that shatter.

[Nikijih]

Illusions work fine for the Scepter and Sword because you can generate illusions very rapidly. This is NOT the case with Staff or Greatsword.

Illusions being generated rapidly by specific weapons masks the real issue here. If EVERY weapon generated illusions so rapidly and easily, this would be much less of an issue, and I probably wouldn't be complaining at all.

But not every weapon is used for the same purpose.

For exemple, you mention the staff as having low illusion generation: thats because the staff is condition-centric and is used for condition builds, not illusion ones.

Not every build will rely on illusions as much, or even for the same reasons. Some build will try to make them tougher and get the buff-while-illusions-are-alive traits, others only want quick generation for multiple shatters, and then there are builds that gain boons or inflict conditions by having fragile illusions and letting them get killed.

As I was saying: mesmer is a complexe class. The real issue here is not that illusions are too fragile or too hard to generate. Its that you lack the imagination to reallize that not every mesmer build is about the same thing.

[DrakeWurrum]

But not every weapon is used for the same purpose.

Not the issue here. Neither are illusions.

Illusions and illusion-shattering actually VERY much support condition-centric builds, especially as you get certain traits.

As I said before, at this point, I'm convinced that illusions should be generated from F1-F4, while shatters should be performed by weapon skills. It just makes so much more sense to me.

[Doylez]

I barely even use shatter, trying to get 3 phantasms up and running seems much more useful. I hate that it destroys your phantasms and not just your clones.

[psychedelica]

I have Sword + Sword build with Staff as second weapon for long range. also put points in mind wrack damage and 50 percision with lower cost for sword ability. putting also on the "healing" but the one thing that been bugging me for awhile is the time i die everytime in storymode. however then i had only greatsword so well see if i manage better with staff.

do anyone of you having or had difficult of doing Storymode?

[Well]

Up until now (I've done a lot of PvP, betas included), necromancers seem to be the hardest thing to take down. They just have so much survivability. There is also a build that uses so heavy AoE, with many spells all at once, making it almost impossible to create illusions and shatter (although I've only came across 1 necro who did that. Our duels over points were exhausting: we befriended each other afterwards).

Thieves seem to just hit you for SOOOO much damage. They are beatable, but if they open 1st, your chances as a mesmer are extremely low (I used phantasmal defender, but... because of the combat flow, you need to shatter illusions fast, plus his long cast time, which is dump). Necromancers seem to be generally decent as players.

I've only came across 2 elementalists which really surprised me, as every ele I meet is just breakfast. Two humans: One fully defensive and one fully offensive, in the sense of hunting the 1st one (the defensive) reminded me of WoW arena matches (hunt the healer around the column), and the minute I thought of that, I stopped chasing him (he couldn't kill me anyway). The 2nd one... my god what was that! He just blinked and instakilled me in 1.5sec, literally. LITERALLY. I was like: "The fuck was that now?" All I do remember is 3 explosions and me being dead afterwards. But other than those 2, I did not find any elementalists to be even decent.

Warriors hit sooo hard (the right spec ofc). Imobilize and BAM BAM BAM.
Guardians just take more time than others to take down.
Engineers are tricky. They can burst sooo much and even from range.

I run GS + sword/focus. It's incredible fun.

---------- Post added 2012-08-30 at 06:03 PM ----------

I have Sword + Sword build with Staff as second weapon for long range. also put points in mind wrack damage and 50 percision with lower cost for sword ability. putting also on the "healing" but the one thing that been bugging me for awhile is the time i die everytime in storymode. however then i had only greatsword so well see if i manage better with staff.

do anyone of you having or had difficult of doing Storymode?

Not really for me. It's generally hard, but I enjoy it immensely. The quest always outlevels me by 2-3 levels every time too.

[Nikijih]

Not the issue here. Neither are illusions.

Illusions and illusion-shattering actually VERY much support condition-centric builds, especially as you get certain traits.

As I said before, at this point, I'm convinced that illusions should be generated from F1-F4, while shatters should be performed by weapon skills. It just makes so much more sense to me.

As I said, it might support condition centric builds, but less so then illusion-centric builds. Some builds will rely on illusions *less* then other builds, even tho its still supported by them.

As for your second point: the problem is that this system would only work in shatter-centric builds. Some builds want to keep illusions alive while others wants to let them be manually killed because of traits.

[DrakeWurrum]

As I said, it might support condition centric builds, but less so then illusion-centric builds.

The thing is that illusion-centric builds and condition-centric builds have a large degree of overlap, simply because illusions do greatly support and improve condition-centric builds. They are not exclusive.

---------- Post added 2012-08-30 at 01:14 PM ----------

As for your second point: the problem is that this system would only work in shatter-centric builds. Some builds want to keep illusions alive while others wants to let them be manually killed because of traits.

Not really. Shatter-centric builds already have to deal with that duality.

At least if you generate illusions with your profession mechanic, you can reliably fuel your shatters, OR reliably keep your illusions active (to a reasonably balanced degree).

Right now, you can't really do either with 50% of the Mesmer weapons. And, again, this is a problem because Illusions serve multiple purposes, and can be made to work for any particular build and/or goal. They can be used offensively, or defensively, or cause burst damage, or cause damaging conditions, or cause controlling conditions.

I'm primarily getting at clones mind you, not phantasms. Phantasms being on weapons, I'm cool with that. Clone-generating, imo, should be the profession mechanic. I don't necessarily think that certain skills should be replaced specifically with Shatters, mind you - I think Mind Blade is pretty cool, and should stay, and continue to generate a clone. But I think Shatters should be tied to weapons, Clone-generation should be the profession mechanic buttons... and obviously this means you'd want Sword and Scepter clone generation to be nerfed to compensate.

If I wanted to be particularly creative with it, I'm sure I could come up with at least 3 unique Clone-generating skills for the profession buttons, and then also have the fourth be a button that swaps you with a random clone.
The Scepter could switch to applying a decent amount of Confusion on the third attack, and I figure the Sword #4 would need to have a different reaction when Blocking. Not sure about the Sword #3 - I'd personally want to turn it into a single-button Leap skill that generated a clone when you land, specifically, but that may be too much.

The issue is that one would need to figure out which skills to replace with Shatters, or which skills should be made to Shatter the illusions, and whether or not those Shatters should cause additional effects.

[Nikijih]

The thing is that illusion-centric builds and condition-centric builds have a large degree of overlap, simply because illusions do greatly support and improve condition-centric builds. They are not exclusive.

Support and centric, how can you not understand the distinction between those two? Someone who gets a beer with his dinner can say alcohol supported his evening. Someone who goes to a park and drinks a bottle of scotch can say his evening was alcohol-centric. Two very different realities.

Not really. Shatter-centric builds already have to deal with that duality.

At least if you generate illusions with your profession mechanic, you can reliably fuel your shatters, OR reliably keep your illusions active (to a reasonably balanced degree).

Right now, you can't really do either with 50% of the Mesmer weapons. And, again, this is a problem because Illusions serve multiple purposes, and can be made to work for any particular build and/or goal. They can be used offensively, or defensively, or cause burst damage, or cause damaging conditions, or cause controlling conditions.

I'm primarily getting at clones mind you, not phantasms. Phantasms being on weapons, I'm cool with that. Clone-generating, imo, should be the profession mechanic.

Except that its the opposite: phantasm could be put on our ''F'' skills, but not illusions. For one, there are many MANY ways to gain illusion, both from weapon skills, utility skills AND traits. Some of them are straight summons, others are part of a combo skill, like Illusionary Leap. It would be impossible to redesign all those skills without dramatically changing the class itself.

[DrakeWurrum]

Except that its the opposite: phantasm could be put on our ''F'' skills, but not illusions. For one, there are many MANY ways to gain illusion, both from weapon skills, utility skills AND traits. Some of them are straight summons, others are part of a combo skill, like Illusionary Leap. It would be impossible to redesign all those skills without dramatically changing the class itself.

And I'm of the opinion that it needs such a dramatic change. The way it's set up right now feels extremely clunky.

[Nikijih]

And I'm of the opinion that it needs such a dramatic change. The way it's set up right now feels extremely clunky.

The more we discuss this, the more it sounds to me like you just want a completely different class...