Mesmer Discussion Thread

[ganglord]

I was playing with staff and sceptre/pistol.

With the staff I aimed at getting as many warlocks up as I could (depending on strength of monster, obviously)...with the sceptre it was all about the shatter.

My thoughts about the clone/shatter/phantasm situation is just that it seems to be trying to do too much - clones and shatters are great, phantasms are great...but having them all use the same 3 slots, and all shatter and overwrite each other...there's a bit of friction there, or there seems to be...maybe I just need to learn to play, but that's my feeling anyway.

I have to agree, it didn't start to feel smooth to me until I just ignored clones all together. See three dots? Better shatter before they die and while you have the chance. I didn't notice much damage from them anyway, and they disappear if there's aoe. I wouldn't be hasty to scrap the idea, they are at least useful in pvp.

[Loaf Lord]

I agree. Like Zito said previously, I think phantasms shouldn't be shattered, they're too precious. Also, I feel like illusions shouldn't die after killing the foe. That just sounds like it will be a huge pain in the ass when you're mass aoeing mobs down and you can't get a shatter off because the mobs are dying too fast.

---------- Post added 2012-05-02 at 08:29 PM ----------

Also, does the illusionary swordsman do anything special? Or does he just attack the target?

[ganglord]

I found a good way to start a fight was to spam the scepter out of range (clones would still gen.) and then start the fight with 3 clones =p

[Loaf Lord]

I found a good way to start a fight was to spam the scepter out of range (clones would still gen.) and then start the fight with 3 clones =p

unfortunately I don't find the scepter appealing at all. I think I'll be playing dual swords and greatsword with my mesmer.

[zito]

Does Retaliation benefit from Malice? O_o

Retaliation is not a condition. So nope.

Also, does the illusionary swordsman do anything special? Or does he just attack the target?

Nope.

unfortunately I don't find the scepter appealing at all. I think I'll be playing dual swords and greatsword with my mesmer.

Scepter was good till it stopped applying confusion. I don't think they made that change because it wasn't overpowered because trident can apply 21+ stacks while with scepter you really couldn't get above 8 too often. Instead I think they wanted scepter to do more damage period in PvE however that was a stupid change and is useless unless you want some shatter spamming build.

[Loaf Lord]

Hmm, interesting. Was my suspicion about blurred frenzy true? Do you have to remain rooted like hundred blades? I'm so mad at myself for only trying warrior.

[zito]

Hmm, interesting. Was my suspicion about blurred frenzy true? Do you have to remain rooted like hundred blades? I'm so mad at myself for only trying warrior.

You have to be remained rooted. It last 2 seconds any movement will cancel it which I also think is stupid since staying in melee range as a mesmer is difficult.

[Deleted]

I found a good way to start a fight was to spam the scepter out of range (clones would still gen.) and then start the fight with 3 clones =p

Ooooh, that's tricky :-) You could start the fight with a nice 3 clone shatter and have created 3 more by the time the monster gets to you!!! Yum!

---------- Post added 2012-05-02 at 10:31 PM ----------

I agree. Like Zito said previously, I think phantasms shouldn't be shattered, they're too precious. Also, I feel like illusions shouldn't die after killing the foe. That just sounds like it will be a huge pain in the ass when you're mass aoeing mobs down and you can't get a shatter off because the mobs are dying too fast.[COLOR="red"]

Agreed - the phantasms just don't feel so disposable...on the one hand they're supposed to do this cool stuff, but on the other, you're supposed to blow them up...it just didn't feel that way.

Agree also about the problems with clones when mobs die quickly - it's almost like the same problem DOT users have...by the time you've put the DOTs down, the creature is dead. Kinda means it's only worth it for the bigger mobs - but then you're nerfed and locked out of any useful use of your whole class mechanic.

I don't know what the solution is in that case, if the clones hang around then the class becomes very similar to a necro with exploding pets. The only thing I can think of is if the clones are created *by* the shatter...so you target someone, hit a mind wrack equivalent, a clone pops in to existence and dive bombs...and maybe one of the "shatters" just creates a clone to hang around and be distracting.

I don't know if you read the beta forum but pretty much everyone was saying much the same thing...I'd be surprised if there wasn't some work with the whole mechanic - unless, like I said before, it's just a LTP issue and we've all missed some subtlety.

[zito]

I don't know if you read the beta forum but pretty much everyone was saying much the same thing...I'd be surprised if there wasn't some work with the whole mechanic - unless, like I said before, it's just a LTP issue and we've all missed some subtlety.

I suggested a 4th slot just for phantasms and you could only have 1 phantasm out at a time. So if you wanted more surv keep the one form the focus out, more damage get the one from the sword out and then add chain skills to the summoned phantasm, like switching places or a synergy attack of blades or something.

However it didn't go over to well, people wanted more than 1 phantasm, however I prefer one because it gives more situational options instead of blowing all your attacks when they are up.

[Jibjub]

I suggested a 4th slot just for phantasms and you could only have 1 phantasm out at a time. So if you wanted more surv keep the one form the focus out, more damage get the one from the sword out and then add chain skills to the summoned phantasm, like switching places or a synergy attack of blades or something.

However it didn't go over to well, people wanted more than 1 phantasm, however I prefer one because it gives more situational options instead of blowing all your attacks when they are up.

The problem with just one phantasm is that what happens to phantasm abilities when you one already summoned? It would need to change like a necro minion ability or something ... or you can just recast it and replace your current phantasm? And what about utility skills that also summon phantasms? A lot would need changed ... not that that is a bad thing.

I did not like the clone/phantasm mechanic at all in PvE (of course only at low levels) -- I just ended up ignoring them completely. It was too much of a hassle to make sure I summon a phantasm first or to not shatter right after summoning a phantasm ... and the bloody mobs would die before my clones could shatter.

Though is is coming from a dude who is now rolling a necromancer

[zito]

The problem with just one phantasm is that what happens to phantasm abilities when you one already summoned? It would need to change like a necro minion ability or something ... or you can just recast it and replace your current phantasm?

That was my suggestion yes. Though we would have a chain attack (much like minions do) that "overcharges" the phantasm which could be made to kill off your phantasm but make it do a super move. Like greatsword phantasm can do a storm of whirlwinds crippling everything before it dies.

And what about utility skills that also summon phantasms? A lot would need changed ... not that that is a bad thing.

There is only I think 2 phantasms in the utility skills, and not everyone picks them up regardless it would be a choice you have to make. Do I need this X phantasm that does Y or this phantasm that does Z?

[Deleted]

What makes it a harder problem is that there're aspects of the current system that I like - I like being able to "save up" for 3 warlocks on a longer lived mob...and I like just exploding everything when I know that mob is very close to death. The problem is that there're also a lot of situations when those same mechanics are tripping me up.

[Khaidu]

I have no idea why people are saying scepter is crap, I found the Scepter/focus to be very useful pve paired with a sword/torch, I played in pvp with the same build and I had some significant damage/clones and pretty good survivability, I was taking down a thief pretty easily with this setup.

[zito]

I have no idea why people are saying scepter is crap, I found the Scepter/focus to be very useful pve paired with a sword/torch, I played in pvp with the same build and I had some significant damage/clones and pretty good survivability, I was taking down a thief pretty easily with this setup.

Sword and staff can produce the same amount of clones with the right traits, produce more pressure and have more surv. Like I said before without confusion on main hand weapon the only use for it is a shatter build.

[Deleted]

I have a bit mixed feeling towards this thread and what this has started to turn into. I know analyzing things and giving Anet suggestions what to buff, change, etc are _really_ good. But in the other hand, I just want to play, have fun and not think "this is bad weapon combination... I will not use this".

I don't want to overthink this game... I bet I will min-max at some point, but not yet. I'm not saying that people should not do it... like I said I know the benefits but is somehow eats the fun. ._.

[Deleted]

As a complete Guild Wars virgin, my experience with the Mesmer, despite the problems I faced was the most positive and fun. I love exploiting utility based unpopular classes and turn the tide in PVP. Overall, this didn't happen. Only now do I realize that I probably forgot to spend traits in the PVP world and it may very very well be attributed to that. Despite that, I loved the utility I could push out. I tried all kinds of abilities but in the end I had to settle for some defensive ones as I would be insta targeted by anyone who had a half idea what they were doing. I didn't really have any significant damage output(Again, traits. I hope) and for the life of me I could not figure out how to reset or change my weapons in the PVP world leaving me with a 'tanking' sword(good), torch(not impressed) and sword(if I do no dmg, it's worthless. I only use it for knockbacks).

Leveling was also fun, though I still wasn't doing any damage. Am I doing something inheritly wrong, or do mobs just take a lot of time to die in general? I played either in groups or alone with the Mesmer so I couldn't really tell.

The clones and phantasms seem a little gimicky. You get great skills by destroying them but their AI is just worthless. It takes them ages to select their targets and if you want to destroy them they just stand there for 2 seconds deciding on god knows what. I hope this will be fleshed out a little in the beta. And either give Mesmers more damage, better buff managment/control or greater crowd control/management.

EDIT: My PVP build, notice the lack of traits
http://www.gw2tools.com/skills#m;aaa...aaa;YWZa;bghkb

[Deleted]

Leveling was also fun, though I still wasn't doing any damage. Am I doing something inheritly wrong, or do mobs just take a lot of time to die in general? I played either in groups or alone with the Mesmer so I couldn't really tell.

I guess it depends on what weapons you used, and how much you used your illusions/phantasms.

The staff really didn't do much damage, it seemed made for group play where you could spread boons around your allies.
The scepter did decent damage, thanks to spawning a lot of illusions that you could either just let attack on their own, or blow up for some nice damage.
The greatsword required range to do good damage, the first skill of it deals less damage the closer you are to the target, so you might've used it wrong?
The sword was brilliant damagewise, I usually killed a mob with a single "auto attack chain" followed by a Blurred frenzy.
The phantasms summoned from the offhand sword and pistol did decent damage as well.

Basically, if you didn't use your illusions and phantasms (I agree that phantasms take ages to "start up", but illusions start attacking right away), tried to use the greatsword as a close combat weapon or used the staff, period, then that might be why you did a low amount of damage.
I personally went with greatsword and sword/pistol, and had no problems killing stuff fast.

[Futhark]

I would give anything for a Trait/Ability that would allow me to swap positions with one of my random clones as a ranged Staff or Greatsword user. I really don't get how it's currently useful at all for the Sword spec.

Make it a shatter effect, a secondary weapon ability, buttons 7-9; I don't care. It would be great. It provides distance (hello SS damage), it employs deception, it's everything Mesmers should be doing with copies of themselves. Swapping with clones would give them more strategic use than the explodable DoTs they are currently.

[zito]

I really don't get how it's currently useful at all for the Sword spec.

It's swords only gap closer, though its bugged so it isn't working right atm.

[Futhark]

It's swords only gap closer, though its bugged so it isn't working right atm.

Closer? The clone swap pulls you back away.

What bug are you referring to? There must be something in your reply that I'm missing.