Mesmer Discussion Thread

[Deleted]

So, about Phantasmal Healing.. does anybody else think that the radius is much too short? Especially when you're "lucky" and the Phantasms spawn quite some distance away from you, not getting the initial pulse and thus not getting regeneration. You'll have to not shatter for 10 seconds (or hope that they're not destroyed in the meantime) to get anything out of it. :/

Edit: Scrap that, there is no initial tick. Again another case of bad tooltips. Why not just say "Phantasms grant regeneration to nearby allies after 10 seconds." And why don't they say how long the regeneration lasts, and.. urgh. *frustrated*

Yep that's one of the things that is annoying me quite a bit for a build I'm testing out. Though it's not working as I thought due to the delay.

[Deleted]

Using a one handed sword, instead of a greatsword.

What would you recommend for the offhand, pistol?

[Kelesti]

Now let me ask you this: How long does it take to put up 3 duelists without any of them getting killed? Its a 15 sec CD, so altogether you would need a minimum of 45 seconds and a couple prayers to get 3 ups. Meanwhile you could have launched at least 4 Mind Wracks. Now this is with base CDs, but we have an entire trait line dedicated to reducing Shatter CDs by up to 300%, so you could probably launch quite a lot, while the "Clone on dodge" trait allows you to launch them as soon as the CD is up.

So your calculation is wrong. Its not 3 duelists vs 1 mind wrack. Its 3 duelists (maybe) against at least 6+ mind wracks. Also keep in mind that Jihad builds have quite a lot of flexibility by giving you the power to launch daze/distortion/confusion bombs whenever they are needed without worrying about your phantasm CDs.

The class has quite a big toolkit, and phantasms are not the only part of it. Phantasm builds are great, but they arnt the only thing we can do :P

EDIT: also keep in mind that phantasms builds cannot use many skills with clone generation, as they would over-right, effectively cutting into their utility as well.

Actually, with a 15 second cooldown, it takes 30 seconds from start to finish to get 3 of them up. First at 0, second at 15, third at 30 (add in additional seconds for cast time, whatever). That's of course before you subtract the -20% cooldown reduction from the weapon spec trait, and then the -15% again from -Illusion Cooldown.

10.2 second cooldown. You have 3 Phantasms plowing into something at full strength ~21 seconds into the game. Unless you're popping Mirror Images and burning your Endurance with the sole purpose of Jihad, you aren't getting 3 full strength Mind Wracks in 21 seconds (9 clones in 21 seconds without a Scepter is stretching it, even before limitations of the cooldown).

But the calculation is correct, you're looking at the wrong point.
Mind Wrack is short burst, and its damage output is less than 3 damage phantasms (Berserker, Warlock, Duelist, Swordsman, or dear gods that Warden) that are up. If you start the clock at 20 seconds instead of 0 seconds only for this half situation, Mind Wrack is already losing. So it's a matter of "how long do these need to stay alive for my total damage to outpace the guy that's been Mind Wracking from the beginning to now". That time is X seconds, but X is a very real number.

Once everything's going, if I need to spawn a utility spell, or the one that pops up when I block (not a dodge clone), my cooldown for my Phantasm will either be up to replace the utility, be it a Disenchanter, Defender, Decoy, Illusionary Leap to cripple/immobilize/move me. The only thing I actually see a 3 phantasm build having trouble with is lolGreatsword (which begs the question why anyone is actually using this).


As for Prayers to get my Phantasms up and going, they have quite a bit of durability between their already higher health pool, the Persistent Images trait, and potentially signet of Illusions (shame it was a bug, I liked their immortality ). Anyone running a Jihad build faces the same issue, the second that their clones die they have to delay a Mind Wrack because a 2 clone one just isn't worth it. It's lost damage as far as the cooldown is concerned.


I'm not the one ignoring the tookit that Phantasms give. I see and acknowledge awesome use from Mind Wrack. I just don't think it's a button we need to be pushing on cooldown for anything except solo'ing easy mobs out in the world.

[Deleted]

Gahhh either i'm playing extremely wrong or Mesmer is extremely squishy. I'm getting absolutely wrecked in group fights 3v3 5v5 etc and solo isnt much better... i'm not a scrub either gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh this is really irritating.. Playing Sword+Pistol with Staff, keeping 3 illusions up, tryna keep los as much as possible and blending in when needed. I just get wrecked 24/7.

[Kelesti]

What would you recommend for the offhand, pistol?

Pistol, Focus (if you do, grab Phantasmal Haste in the Illusions Tree, dear gods), or Sword in the offhand. They all work well, do different things. I love the sword myself, that Phantasm moves rather than plants itself, and its attack is actually an Evade throughout the animation, not dying in melee range. Plus the block offers so much survivability that between it and Blurred Frenzy you can actually stay in melee range in times that most would be reaching for their ranged slot to keep up pressure.

---------- Post added 2012-09-10 at 01:50 PM ----------

hey, I love your replies, really got me thinking

Can you link me your Staff-Sword/? build please? How does this work out, which stats are you priotizing? Staff would go with conditions I guess, + the Chaotic Dampening (Chaos 25) and Illusionary Elasticy (Illusions 20) which only leaves 25 points. Those in Power for the Sword-punch + stronger Phantasms? Condition Damage + Power + Toughness?

This is actually close to the build I'm running right now: 0/20/20/15/15, swapping in Utility Spells as the situation changes (like Illusion of Life, Disenchanter, etc). I hope this helps with what I wrote up earlier.

[Nikijih]

Actually, with a 15 second cooldown, it takes 30 seconds from start to finish to get 3 of them up. First at 0, second at 15, third at 30 (add in additional seconds for cast time, whatever). That's of course before you subtract the -20% cooldown reduction from the weapon spec trait, and then the -15% again from -Illusion Cooldown.

10.2 second cooldown. You have 3 Phantasms plowing into something at full strength ~21 seconds into the game. Unless you're popping Mirror Images and burning your Endurance with the sole purpose of Jihad, you aren't getting 3 full strength Mind Wracks in 21 seconds (9 clones in 21 seconds without a Scepter is stretching it, even before limitations of the cooldown).

Haha i gotta agree you got me, my math isnt strong when im on Contact C ><. Ok so 30 seconds.

But the calculation is correct, you're looking at the wrong point.
Mind Wrack is short burst, and its damage output is less than 3 damage phantasms (Berserker, Warlock, Duelist, Swordsman, or dear gods that Warden) that are up. If you start the clock at 20 seconds instead of 0 seconds only for this half situation, Mind Wrack is already losing. So it's a matter of "how long do these need to stay alive for my total damage to outpace the guy that's been Mind Wracking from the beginning to now". That time is X seconds, but X is a very real number.

What makes you think that you cannot continue mind wracking? Thats what I dont get: you seem to be under the impression that once your 3 phantasms are out suddently all clone/shatter skills go on CD. They dont. Sure things like Mirror has heafty CD, so you keep those for when you feel like you need a OSHIT button, but between both weapon sets and the dodge clones that is plenty to keep generating enough clones indefinitly.

I'm not the one ignoring the tookit that Phantasms give. I see and acknowledge awesome use from Mind Wrack. I just don't think it's a button we need to be pushing on cooldown for anything except solo'ing easy mobs out in the world

I am quite aware what phantasms can bring, as I play Phantank a lot myself. I am also quite aware what limitations they have, like, for exemple, they are very prohibitive to quick Daze/Distortion shatters. I am no dissing Phantasm builds or nothing, but you have to reallize that different builds will revolve around different elements. Thats like me putting everything I have into Condition Damage and saying you are stupid for not using a staff because any other weapon is weak in comparison.

[Ralamus]

bleh, i tried sword/pistol again and i still don't like it. greatsword/staff is just too good to replace

[Deleted]

^ I don't like Greatsword much but Staff is awesome. I'm clearly playing wrong, or I just get unlucky with all the Thieves in SPvP, but I get destroyed every fight on my Mesmer. bah.

[Deleted]

ill try putting subtitles later, but for now in this vid we can see the use of the Portal ability, wich is extrem OP for torneys.

You are denying yourself one of the great pleasures in life if you don't run greatsword with portal entre, especially on the clocktower, that place was just made for trolling with a mesmer

[Nikijih]

You are denying yourself one of the great pleasures in life if you don't run greatsword with portal entre, especially on the clocktower, that place was just made for trolling with a mesmer

Brain... Trying... To understand...

What makes it so awsome, never tried that combo heh

[Deleted]

thanks for whoever wrote the quick skill order "guide" think it was Cempa. Helped me out a lot. Figures the reason my damage sucked was because I wasn't weapon swapping enough back to gs+staff now and doing a little better. swapping every fight but i'm ok with that, the class is getting more enjoyable now. Will follow the toughness build so I don't get too squishy during levelling. Hopefully I don't end up rolling guardian

[Deleted]

Brain... Trying... To understand...

What makes it so awsome, never tried that combo heh

Clocktower has a hidden roof entrance directly on top of the cap point, you can just set your portal up there, pester the enemies below, and if they dare come up the ramp to get you you can just BAM them off the roof [which is high enough at the top for insta-death when they land]. But you can do the same with any high up place, clock tower is just a personal favourite, also if it's 1v1 and they cap the node you can drop down, cap it back and once they drop after you, portal back up to the roof and snipe them out, fun fun

---------- Post added 2012-09-11 at 12:15 AM ----------

You can pull it off better than the guy here but you can see the basic idea;

http://gw2tube.com/en/battle-of-kyhlo-hidden-spot/

[Ralamus]

yep i've been using portal entre/exeunt ever since i unlocked it. great for pvp and soloing champion mobs too

[zito]

Ok after must deliberation with myself... I have developed a new build. I call this RI-FLEC-TOR or rift for short

http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fgUQ...y6lrIpXrKGVsjA

The rift build focuses on reflects and bleeds and confusion. You want to stack condition damage, precision, and a surv stat of your choice. (I suggest vitality because this is a ranged spec unless you are running mirror, then stack toughness. Healing power is meh).

Phantasmal warden is your main bleed builder, when traited with phantasmal haste it only has a 1 sec delay in attacks, making it the best bleed stacker we have if the foe stays still (which most of the time they do).

Wardens feedback makes curtain reflect projectiles which is awesome and Iwarden already reflected projectiles so that is the downside. Now on to the wardens reflect, a lot of people say its lacking because you can't select its position, im inclined to agree however there is a possibility you might get lucky and Iwarden attacks almost on top of the mob. When this happens even if warden isn't in front of you projectiles will still get caught up in the whirlwind and reflect back.

I chose master of misdirection (33% confusion duration) as personal preference as this build will be shattering a lot in between wardens and with illusionary retribution and signet of illusions you can get a steady stream of confusion going till warden is up again. Deceptive evasion will provide the clones while critical confusion will provide the vigor (which gives you energy to dodge) and since you are stacking precision you will be dodging on cd basicly (unless you know you need it soon) because eventhough clones don't do damage they still can crit, phantasms can also crit and so can you. That is 3 sources of crit which will provide vigor. BAM.

Dazzling glamours is pretty useful, its downright deadly because mirror feedback (your 3rd reflect btw) can be used when stun/knockdown/anything. Meaning if you get knockdowned and you are about to be hit, pop this and this will blind your foe. Glamour mastery reduces feedbacks cd (and null fields) by 20% meaning more blinds and quicker condition/boon purging.

Now if I really could, I would stack condition duration like a mother. However I can't. Domination can offer 30% condition duration... however domination flipin sucks for anything condition wise so it is really wasted. The only useful thing is foes getting confusion when they move out of glamours but that isn't enough for the lack of condition synergy.

Now on to runes and sigils. First off rune of earth on both staff and scepter, the weapons with your main attacks, to have a chance to apply bleed on crit. Lastly for the focus sigil pick whatever you want. It is really personal preference as nothing stands out as "must have for this build". For runes you go with 2 runes of the monk for 15% boon duration and rune of lyssa for 10% condition duration and random boon on healing skill.

Why not rune of nightmare for another 10% condition duration? Not worth it unless you can somehow make 30 points in domination work (which also isn't worth it) and with staff boon duration is incredibly useful for you and the group. However both runes are not incredible and if you prefer something else go for it.

Now lastly for healing and elite skills. Empathy or mirror are valid choices. Mirror offers a 4th reflect, faster boon generation via rune of lyssa and an offense reflect when warden and curtain are down. The downside is it heals for crap so you have to use it early and is not reliable when recovering from a big hit meaning your survival staff better be toughness. Empathy is great, heals for almost twice as much as mirror with 3 illusions up, can heal up from spike damage easily and safely. The downside is less rune of lyssa procs (which is pointless if you don't take rune of lyssa) and a slightly longer cd of 5 seconds compared to mirror. You can also stack healing power/toughness/vitality depending on what you want because its synergies with all 3 unlike mirror.

Ok so lastly is the elites. Time warp is a-maz-ing I love it. Moa is ok It is a great single target CC on bosses and trash, has a less duration on bosses though but is useful in certain cases like the love duo in catacombs. It is pointless against giant bosses like the last boss in sorrows embrace or dragons. Mass invis is garbage. unless you are doing vent or something similar and tell your team you are doing mass invis most of the time they will break stealth by attacking and generally is less effective then time warp regardless of the shorter CD. Now if used perfectly (which I can guarantee will never happen). It can save your team 5 seconds of being hit by bosses which is great in dire moments. This will never happen in a pug though unless you use vent, you can pull it off in an organized group with vent but overall might not be worth it.

[Ralamus]

why's that site in russian? i didn't like clicking it.

[DrakeWurrum]

why's that site in russian? i didn't like clicking it.

There's a button somewhere for language. It's the most complete skill tool right now.
IMO, obviously.

[Kelesti]

why's that site in russian? i didn't like clicking it.

The Skill Calculator's translated natively into English by the site's creators (Note the Ru and the En buttons, partway down on the left), but the rest of the content is a Russian fansite. Completely unnecessary for you to read, even with Google Translate. But yeah, the most up to date trait/skill calculator we have.

[zito]

wtb comments to make myself feel specilz

[Ralamus]

ah okay. as long as the site's legit

[Luko]

I've been trying to avoid the staff. It's not really a weapon I imagine a "duelist" running around with, plus I tend to stray away from the "popular" weapon choices while my level is low enough to be forgiving. (This is my opinion, btw, not bashing the class. Mesmer's just my screw-around alt.)

Anyway, the full melee build is fun (s/s) however I see it lacking hard later on. I've been pulling people in with the greatsword and switching to my swords when they get in range. I have absolutely no long-term experience with the class. Is this playstyle going to get me in trouble later on?