Mesmer Discussion Thread

[zito]

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/foru...st#post1061359

@ Mesmer: We’ll be addressing the current Mesmer build that’s spiking for insane damage. Sorry that change got through – it is something we’ll be fixing.

what.... I don't even...

[Lane]

I'd like to know how to do any damage. :P Mine is only level 40, so maybe that's part of the problem.

I don't 'get' staff, which seems to be a lot of people's favored secondary weapon. I ended up using GS & scepter + focus. (Scepter for range + #3 seems to do decent enough dps, focus for speed boost + warden.) Basically unless warden and berserker are up I feel like I contribute little dps to any given fight. GS2 seems to be mandatory to keep up or GS dps feels terrible.

The fact that phantasms die when the target dies rather than when they die really bugs me. It's not so bad on single targets, but in AoE situations trying to put them on mobs that are most likely to die last so you get the most bang for you buck is frustrating. I also don't 'get' shattering. When I do shatter my illusions they don't deal nearly as much damage as I feel they should. Then again, this usually means my 'zerker and possibly warden get killed off in the process, so the loss of them can be significant depending on the fight.

I should also note that this is strictly overworld PvE. I don't PvP with mine nor have I done any dungeons yet (besides Tixx :P). I've been grouping with my bf's engineer (I can't even imagine trying to solo level a mesmer x_x) and mostly I feel like the distraction while he does all the killing.

I watched part of some 'comprehensive mesmer guide' video on YouTube, but it was a LOT to take in one sitting. I think I need a more simplified breakdown of how others deal with overworld PvE situations, that might help.

[zito]

I don't 'get' staff, which seems to be a lot of people's favored secondary weapon. I ended up using GS & scepter + focus. (Scepter for range + #3 seems to do decent enough dps, focus for speed boost + warden.) Basically unless warden and berserker are up I feel like I contribute little dps to any given fight. GS2 seems to be mandatory to keep up or GS dps feels terrible.

It's everyones favoriate weapon because it offers the best support a mesmer can get. Choas storm + leap = chaos armor = boons + regular chaos armor = more boons.

Scepter is a joke and the only thing it's useful for is attack 3 which is highly lackluster in PvE to begin with. Focus is a reflect weapon, you trait it, it reflects projectiles. Warden is bugged and doesn't give the proper attack reset time with phantasmal haste and it being stationary doesn't help its damage.

Izerker has been bugged for 2 months now and is no where getting its previous damage back any time soon.

The only thing you can do is run a power shatter build if you want damage and that is getting nerfed soon.

---------- Post added 2012-12-22 at 04:48 PM ----------

There is a thread about a theif complaining about the amount of damage a mesmer can do. Here is the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr8l833Gs9I

Anyone else notice the mesmer almost got one shot? And the glass cannon theif who almost one shot him complained that he got bursted down.

Incase anyone was noticiging the damage is Iwarlock + mind wrack crit on a glass cannon theif with 13k hp.

[Meledelion]

First things first, staff isn't a great weapon. Most people use it for shatter combos since staff 2 + mirror images is quite brutal.

The scepter/focus combo is pretty popular since autoattacks spwn clones in melee and that's a way to make the warden do more dmg(since foes stay in melee range of the warden). However the strength (imo) of the scepter doesn't come from raw dmg. Scepter shines in stacking confusion.

If you're looking for good weapons for lvling purposes GS+Sword/focus is nice. Why focus and not pistol? Simple, pistol is a sustained dmg weapon (iDuelist) whilst the warden actually has pretty nice burst especially since you can immobilise your target and also use skill 2 to do massive dmg.

Another issue with confusion oriented builds for lvling purposes is that they have pretty significant ramp up times. You need about 8stacks of confusion for it to start dealing big dmg, ofc you can use the trick mentioned earlier but you'll have a 45sec recharge which doesn't help.

[Thelxi]

Scepter auto attack clone generation is too ridiculous to even mention. Any good mesmer will absolutely never rely on scepter auto attacks spawning clones, because it is utterly ridiculous and suboptimal. We have a million better ways to reliable and quickly generate clones. The only reasonably viable aspect of the scepter is the confusion from scepter3 in very niche and questionably viable condition builds.

Staff is not a terrible weapon. Even for P/Pr/% builds it can be useful as a secondary support and defensive weapon, it has similar clone generation to the GS and is the most defensive weapon we have. It is also obviously the weapon of choice for all condition builds since clones also apply a tick of burning on top of bleeding.

[Durzlla]

Scepter auto attack clone generation is too ridiculous to even mention. Any good mesmer will absolutely never rely on scepter auto attacks spawning clones, because it is utterly ridiculous and suboptimal. We have a million better ways to reliable and quickly generate clones. The only reasonably viable aspect of the scepter is the confusion from scepter3 in very niche and questionably viable condition builds.

Staff is not a terrible weapon. Even for P/Pr/% builds it can be useful as a secondary support and defensive weapon, it has similar clone generation to the GS and is the most defensive weapon we have. It is also obviously the weapon of choice for all condition builds since clones also apply a tick of burning on top of bleeding.

Not gonna argue with staff part, but scepter generates THE MOST clones out of all weapons, full auto attack combo = 2s that means you get 3 clones up in 6 seconds, no other weapon can do that, and then you can also block to generate a clone as well. Sure a good Mesmer doesn't -need- scepter but even a good Mesmer can't keep up with a scepter clone generation.

Before you even pull out the bull shot argument of "oh well I can dodge to generate clones!" Well so can a scepter Mesmer, and they can ALSO mirror image, and decoy and blah blah blah.

PS: scepter still sucks if you're a non shatter build btw, not go an argue that, it is however "ok" as a defensive secondary set especially when combined with, well any of the off hands.

[zito]

Most of the time though in pvp you can't get that full chain off. That's why the instant clone generation of dodge rolls outweighs this combined with instant illusions from sword/gs/staff. Block has a cast time delay which overall gimps your survivability, yea you block that one attack but now you have to eat 1/2 of other incoming attacks (worse if you are fighting 2+ more people), if you choose to dodge though you lost that 3k damage from block and your clone.

In pve clone in melee = no shatters yea it takes a hit but there goes your shatters.

Scepter has potential but is a direct contradiction to itself.

[Meledelion]

This was not about PvP, it was for pve lvling purposes...

[zito]

This was not about PvP, it was for pve lvling purposes...

If you want fast killing scepter and staff is the slowest. Sword/pistol/GS has the fastest killing potential in phantasms, direct damage, and shatters.

Focus has a slow ramp up time, requires the mob to stand still, and Iwarden has less HP then a clone and can get one shot even if you have a clone up the mob will or may not attack the phantasm. Scepter also has a slow ramp up time for clones to shatter that is if they don't die, and in the world of weapon swapping you won't stay in scepter for more then one attack chain.

[Meledelion]

If you want fast killing scepter and staff is the slowest. Sword/pistol/GS has the fastest killing potential in phantasms, direct damage, and shatters.

Focus has a slow ramp up time, requires the mob to stand still, and Iwarden has less HP then a clone and can get one shot even if you have a clone up the mob will or may not attack the phantasm. Scepter also has a slow ramp up time for clones to shatter that is if they don't die, and in the world of weapon swapping you won't stay in scepter for more then one attack chain.

I've already talked about it and no sword/pistol isn't the highest burst, sword/focus has a higher burst (with a longer cd)

[Veliladon]

Not gonna argue with staff part, but scepter generates THE MOST clones out of all weapons, full auto attack combo = 2s that means you get 3 clones up in 6 seconds, no other weapon can do that, and then you can also block to generate a clone as well. Sure a good Mesmer doesn't -need- scepter but even a good Mesmer can't keep up with a scepter clone generation.

Before you even pull out the bull shot argument of "oh well I can dodge to generate clones!" Well so can a scepter Mesmer, and they can ALSO mirror image, and decoy and blah blah blah.

Except there's only so often you can shatter and there are better clones than an ether bolt spammer.

I've been using continuous shatterplay since the 14th (the massive buff to shattering strength is obscene) and I can easily have all shatters on cooldown (even running 25 in illusions) waiting for some to come off along with iduelist to reset my burst. And that's using staff/s+p.

Doing 5-6K bleed damage in a single iduelist volley for a total of 8-10K in a single phantasm burst feels so wrong but it feels so right.

[Lane]

Thanks for the input everyone.

The only reason I initially chose scepter over sword is because it's ranged. I did like sword's attacks better, but since I usually use GS at range switching to sword meant having to rush whatever I was fighting. Even still, I usually only used scepter #3 after casting focus warden and then immediately switched back to GS.

[Durzlla]

Except there's only so often you can shatter and there are better clones than an ether bolt spammer.

I've been using continuous shatterplay since the 14th (the massive buff to shattering strength is obscene) and I can easily have all shatters on cooldown (even running 25 in illusions) waiting for some to come off along with iduelist to reset my burst. And that's using staff/s+p.

Doing 5-6K bleed damage in a single iduelist volley for a total of 8-10K in a single phantasm burst feels so wrong but it feels so right.

I never said scepter was a great weapon, I just said no other weapon can pump out as many clones as scepter (which is fact) the clones scepter pumps out though are fucking useless other than being meat shields or shatter fodder...god why did they take confusion off of scepters auto and it's clones? I mean fuck, 4 stacks of constant confusion was -that- OP? Really?

---------- Post added 2012-12-23 at 12:29 PM ----------

Thanks for the input everyone.

The only reason I initially chose scepter over sword is because it's ranged. I did like sword's attacks better, but since I usually use GS at range switching to sword meant having to rush whatever I was fighting. Even still, I usually only used scepter #3 after casting focus warden and then immediately switched back to GS.

I -personally- prefer scepter because of how good it is for defensive purposes, ESPEIALLY in pvp vs a competent player (a lot of people hesitate to attack with a lot of confusion because it adds up fast) and the block + clone generation is always good... If only it was able to be a sword instead of always having to be a fucking shield though...

[nightshark]

I've been playing Warrior as main pretty much since the game came out, I've levelled 6 other characters to 80 but I never geared them or used them for much... so while I understand the basics of each class, I'm not very competent with them. My levelling build was probably godawful, I was using sword/sword and greatsword for range. Nothing could kill me but it also took forever to kill anything, big change from warrior levelling where I could mow down 5 mobs at once.

I've been thinking about giving another class a go in dungeons and I was tossing up between Mesmer or Guardian, I've decided on Mesmer since it'll be a bigger change - going from a heavy armor character to a light armor class and Mesmer just seems to be the best choice for dungeons and PvP in that respect.

I don't want to jump in and gear my mesmer in full exotics and then find out I made a bad choice, and I'm always wary of random builds I find from Google because they could be a player just as clueless as me. Can anyone help me with choosing a gearset/build that is right for me? Preferrably someone who frequents dungeons. I want to be a support Mesmer, don't want a build that is going to get 1 shot when a boss or dungeon mob decides to pick me as its auto attack target.

If the armor can be bought with dungeon tokens, even better, because I run these things all day while I'm playing.

[Durzlla]

3 questions for above poster.

1) do you want to be able to damage things as well or be full on buff not supporter?
2) if yes to damage condi or physical?
3) do you want to support via controlling mobs, preventin them from doin what they want (shut down) or by providing boons for allies, takin bullets for them etc (do you want to hinder enemies or buff allies)


As soon a you answer those I can help ya a bit more!

[nightshark]

1) Yeah I do want some DPS in the build. If I can get away with having berserkers gear I would do that, but I found some damage and conditions in dungeons are somewhat unavoidable, which is why I disliked playing thief. Mesmer might be OK in berserkers due to being able to stay somewhat perma ranged. But yeah I haven't had the experience on mes so that's why I need help deciding
2) Really, whichever does more damage in dungeons (big health, big damage mobs). I likely won't be using the character to do anything solo, and can always respec if I need to.
3) I would rather go with providing boons for allies since most mobs in dungeons have defiant stacks all the time and there's not a lot of CC going on. I think the boons are more important.

[Durzlla]

1) Yeah I do want some DPS in the build. If I can get away with having berserkers gear I would do that, but I found some damage and conditions in dungeons are somewhat unavoidable, which is why I disliked playing thief. Mesmer might be OK in berserkers due to being able to stay somewhat perma ranged. But yeah I haven't had the experience on mes so that's why I need help deciding
2) Really, whichever does more damage in dungeons (big health, big damage mobs). I likely won't be using the character to do anything solo, and can always respec if I need to.
3) I would rather go with providing boons for allies since most mobs in dungeons have defiant stacks all the time and there's not a lot of CC going on. I think the boons are more important.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQJAR...uikFtIZAyBkHJA

Ok, so i made you a build, it's really offensive but still supporty. The main way to support with it is by tearing boons off of the enemy and giving them to you and your allies. For example, everytime you shatter you'll shred 3 boons from your enemy and throw up vigor to all your allies. You can also use the staff to to give boons (random granted) to your allies, and you can use the greatsword mirror sword to give vuln to your enemies, might to your allies, etc. You also grant regen to allies who are near your phantasms (which you should be throwing out fairly often for the regen alone).

You're probably like "Wtf why mass invis instead of timewarp?" Simple, runes of lyssa (if you can get them otherwise go for runes of altruism) give you all boons which you can then spread to all your allies. And the grandmaster trait gives you and your allies (who you stealth) a random boon from a pool of i believe 3 every 3 seconds they're stealthed.

The builds kinda weird, and it'll take some time getting used to, but if you have any questions on it just let me know!

[Meledelion]

I'll throwin my 2c aswell so you have some other options.
1. Berserker gear is imo the best setup you can run for mesmer since our condi dmg is very lackluster in dungeons (we rely on our clone to help keep burning/bleeding stacksup which is pretty tough, you can grab the trait that makes phantasm crits bleed but due to low attack speed on the illusion from staff it won't matter a lot(it will still help ofc).
2. You do not need any sort of defensive traits, the best way of buffing is using signet of inspiration and helping other classes (guardians/wars/ele) who simply buff ppl without effort to extend their buffs (sadly you do not benefit from it though)
Your best defensive mechanics are sword skill 2 (which works great for dmg aswell) and the range you get when using GS (max range=more dmg)
3. My build
I prefer feedback over nullfield since I want bosses to stack up on boons before I strip and share them + feedback does a lot of dmg on bosses who throw stuff (mech/ice boss, fire shaman, harpies, asura all in fotm) If bosses don't have throws but are condi heavy i'll go with nullfield (the cliffside fractal boss comes to mind).

[Durzlla]

@Meledelion, yeah i was debating on throwing feedback there instead of null field but null field is generally a better all around more useful due to the condi removal which just about every boss has, granted as you said you can always just switch the skills as the fights demand!

[Meledelion]

I didn't mean to criticise your build since you didn't ask for it. I just wanted to sort of push through a pet peeve of mine that all skills be it weaponskills or utility skills, should be adjusted to the fight, I chose a hands on approach since the rest of our utility skills are identical.