Shaco

[Deleted]

His jungle is slow as hell. Deny fb and he's already behind by far. Take his jungle when he attemps at ganking and he'lll be even more behind. Ward up your own jungle entrances and kill him when he attempts at counterjungling. He only has his early game, after that he's useless. Unless you feed him 10 kills wich means he'll tear your team up until lategame at wich point he becomes nothing but a splitpusher, useless in teamfights.

Pick Lee Sin, Trundle, Shyvana, Skarner or even Maokai and countejungle him. Remember he's incredibly slow in the jungle after level 2, punish him for it and he's gonna be useless midgame, and lategame.

[bitterlock]

His jungle is slow as hell. Deny fb and he's already behind by far. Take his jungle when he attemps at ganking and he'lll be even more behind. Ward up your own jungle entrances and kill him when he attempts at counterjungling. He only has his early game, after that he's useless. Unless you feed him 10 kills wich means he'll tear your team up until lategame at wich point he becomes nothing but a splitpusher, useless in teamfights.

Pick Lee Sin, Trundle, Shyvana, Skarner or even Maokai and countejungle him. Remember he's incredibly slow in the jungle after level 2, punish him for it and he's gonna be useless midgame, and lategame.

His jungle really isn't that slow. My do my first gank with double buffs at level 3 at 3:00-3:10. That doesn't really seem slow to me. I normally catch the enemy off guard by doing the early gank. I admit he does fall off late game thou.

[Riboe]

His jungle is slow as hell.
[...]
Remember he's incredibly slow in the jungle after level 2, punish him for it and he's gonna be useless midgame, and lategame.

Shaco is by no means slow in the jungle. I do my first gank around the 3 min mark - with double buffs. Also, when I clear wolves or wraiths in ~4 seconds, I'm slow? :O
Often I've ganked 3-4 times, before the enemy jungler ganks for the first time. Often, he's the same level as me.

If I don't suck at early game (happened 5 or 6 out of 45 games or so), I'm not really that useless with Shaco at mid game. I can go 1v1 with any ranged AD carry or AP carry and win. Assuming they haven't been overfed, of course.

Late game, he's not useless either. Wait for teamfight, jump in and wtfpwn enemy AD carry, win teamfight and then pick up runners. If I die in that process, my ultimate gets me a kill ~20% of the time. At this point - if I've played properly and my teammates doesn't go 0-11-3 Vayne etc. - I can still go 1 on 1 against AD and AP carries and win.

I'm not saying all of my games are like this, but most of them are... Often, if I lose or do bad with Shaco, it's because my team have messed up.

[Deleted]

Shaco is by no means slow in the jungle. I do my first gank around the 3 min mark - with double buffs. Also, when I clear wolves or wraiths in ~4 seconds, I'm slow? :O
Often I've ganked 3-4 times, before the enemy jungler ganks for the first time. Often, he's the same level as me.

If I don't suck at early game (happened 5 or 6 out of 45 games or so), I'm not really that useless with Shaco at mid game. I can go 1v1 with any ranged AD carry or AP carry and win. Assuming they haven't been overfed, of course.

Late game, he's not useless either. Wait for teamfight, jump in and wtfpwn enemy AD carry, win teamfight and then pick up runners. If I die in that process, my ultimate gets me a kill ~20% of the time. At this point - if I've played properly and my teammates doesn't go 0-11-3 Vayne etc. - I can still go 1 on 1 against AD and AP carries and win.

I'm not saying all of my games are like this, but most of them are... Often, if I lose or do bad with Shaco, it's because my team have messed up.

Ofcourse it's because your team messes up, it always is. Right? Or could it possibly be, and I'm just throwing it out there, but could it be that Shaco is just friggin useless in teamfights lategame. Nah, you're right, it's your teams fault, anything else is just crazy-talk.

And, as I said; Shaco has his early game. After double buffs, his jungling is slow. Almost Assasin can go toe-to-toe with an AD carry, no big surprise there. Most AP carries fucking suck 1v1. Most. And oi, if you honestly haven't ganked more times than your enemy jungler when playing Shaco I'd call you a terrible Shaco. But 3-4 times? Sorry mate, I doubt it. Unless ofcourse the enemy jungler is absolutely terrible, or have been busy taking your jungle.

[cherb]

I dont get the "shaco is useless in team fights", Is he as good an initiator as Skarner? No. As tanky as Udyr? No. He is just a different style of jungler. Try this:

Wait on the outskirts of team fights, place a box or two in anticipation of where enemy may try to escape and wait for team fight to start. When fight starts Deceive in, look for enemy carry/squishy then lay down a box, use your auto crit from Deceive, and pop your clone. It is now a 4v5. OR...

Teams dancing with each other waiting to initiate team fight? Start to split push to draw enemy apart/ get ignored and take down a turret. If they split, sending 1, easy kill. If they send 2, have team engage the rest while you use superior mobility/Deceive to rejoin team making it a 5v3.

Got their inhib turret down but inhib is up? Have team feign a team fight while u backdoor and take down inhib so fast enemy team doesnt know whats happening.

Anyone who calls late game shaco useless is simply not playing him in the way he is designed. He deals heavy/burst damage and can be extremely disruptive, throw the enemy off their game plan and watch them rage about how useless you are while you wipe the floor with them.

None of this happens if you deny him early game.

[Riboe]

Ofcourse it's because your team messes up, it always is. Right? Or could it possibly be, and I'm just throwing it out there, but could it be that Shaco is just friggin useless in teamfights lategame. Nah, you're right, it's your teams fault, anything else is just crazy-talk.

Why the hostile attitude? :O

Look, I'm the first one to admit it when I mess up. I never claimed that I don't mess up sometimes... I just said that often it's not me, but my team.
Besides, I always play with at least 2 IRL friends and much of the time we're full premade. Two of them aren't that good, they just don't really realize it.
The two other excellent players, that I play with, would happily admit that most of the time it's the two others who messed up and causes us to lose.

As for the 3-4 ganks before the enemy's first one:
I never said I recalled or went back into the jungle between those ganks... Running from bot to mid to top, then back to mid, makes for a lot of ganks in very short time. I didn't claim that my team would get a kill on any of those ganks, but the first gank usually yields first blood for my team. If that one doesn't, then the second gank almost aways does.

Anyway, you can chose to believe me or not, but I'm not gonna try to convince you. I have told you how my Shaco games usually go... I don't know what else I can do. Everything I've said has been 100% true...
So... Yeah.

[Munii]

i loved how shaco could get to lvl 3 faster than mid. super gank!

[Syfy]

Personally I could never get used to Shaco, and have never been beten by him when I play my main Tryndamere, apparently he's so op but I still can't get used to him lol.

[Deleted]

Why is Shaco banned so often in ranked?

Is it because he's powerful, or just plain annoying?

[Riboe]

i loved how shaco could get to lvl 3 faster than mid. super gank!

Could? He still can.

Why is Shaco banned so often in ranked?

Is it because he's powerful, or just plain annoying?

He is very powerful early game and his ganks are just terrifying.
He falls off a bit mid game, but only a bit.
He falls off quite a lot late game, but if you do well early game and you play him properly mid/late, then he's still a great champ to have on your team.

When you're playing Shaco, you aim to end the game as fast as possible, because he does fall off... But that doesn't mean he is useless late game!

[ForrestAnthony]

The only time I can say I've ever beaten a good shaco was as Nasus, he ran in with his team and I popped my ulti, and used siphoning strike (this was 54 minutes into the game) which killed him from 60% hp. I got so excited

[Duilliath]

Why is Shaco banned so often in ranked?

Is it because he's powerful, or just plain annoying?

Both. It basically means you spend the first 10-15 minutes parked at your tower so you don't get ganked. He can Deceive past wards and is a very good assassin who can gank really early.

Sure, if he doesn't get fed, he's not nearly as useful late game as a slew of other junglers, but it takes quite a bit of effort to avoid that happening in the first place.

[Janetta]

bump 10 chars

Please post productively, if you have nothing to contribute to a conversation, don't just bump a thread. -Edge

[Ellesarr]

Why is Shaco banned so often in ranked?

Is it because he's powerful, or just plain annoying?

Same reason why people ban kass*

Because no one understands how to play against him in solo que.

[Silent]

Dear god Kassadin... I remember the first time i ever tried too play ranked, I went mid. I had prepared a special rune-page for ap mids at that time just to be super safe incase I get a LB / Kass / Cassio against me: ap quints + magic resi blue's + AP Pen + ap per lvl yellow marks.
*And then I buy a Null Pendant and start at 72 magic resi and lol at them trying to harrass me. Seeing Kassadin's Q hit me for less then an auto attack is always fun

EDIT: Forgot to add mastery magic resi talent

[asmodei]

... I can go 1v1 with any ranged AD carry or AP carry and win. Assuming they haven't been overfed, of course...Late game, he's not useless either. Wait for teamfight, jump in and wtfpwn enemy AD carry, win teamfight and then pick up runners...

ofc u can not

lvl 10 shaco (not fed) with usuall ad build jumped on me (lvl10 lux with dorans ring, mpen boots, mpen mask and fiendish codex), he had 80% HP and I did hit him with all my spells, and he died

only insane shaco can jump on ad carry in teamfight unnoticed by rest of enemy team, and only lucky one will not die in exactly one second by focus fire

[FoShizzleMyGrizzle]

Shaco = Backdoor.
Tho, Shaco is a really strong ganker/jungler (tho Im not sure if he can get back so much from getting counterjungled). I have the Asylum skin for Shaco (cuus I was in love with that sick mf!)
tho like most assassins alike they fall off lategame, unless they can stay outside of teamfights and wait for the enemy to have lowhealth / to run away. Well, as Nocturne you may want to initiate unless you have a rammus, amumu etc. NOC TANKY ! remember that. Anyways. Shaco isnt useless in teamfights? He can cut poeple off, strong escape/chasing mode (Q, E,W).
A good Shaco makes his ganks worth it, getting a kill or 2.
Im not playing shaco anymore. I dont know why, but found a better laner/jungler (skarner/cassi/gp).
Shaco is an AWESOME champ when you learn/master him.

---------- Post added 2012-03-08 at 08:56 AM ----------

Same reason why people ban kass*

Because no one understands how to play against him in solo que.

Magic resist dude, magic resist.
HURR DURR TALON !

[Riboe]

ofc u can not

lvl 10 shaco (not fed) with usuall ad build jumped on me (lvl10 lux with dorans ring, mpen boots, mpen mask and fiendish codex), he had 80% HP and I did hit him with all my spells, and he died

only insane shaco can jump on ad carry in teamfight unnoticed by rest of enemy team, and only lucky one will not die in exactly one second by focus fire

Don't tell me what I can and can't do. You don't know a thing about playing Shaco.
In fact, I just went 17-6-21 and 14-5-15 with Shaco last night. It was pure insanity and luck, right?...
I could go 1v1 with everyone except their tank. I could initiate 1v2 or 1v3 and instantly whoever I went for would be down to 30-40% HP. Then I'd run into a bush, drop a box and a couple of times I'd pop ultimate too, while waiting for Deceive to be ready. By that time, my team joins the fight and I can use the crit from Deceive to finish off the guy I went for earlier

Oh and btw, I only died that much because I tried to troll my friend and steal a couple of his kills, while I was at ~200 HP.. Didn't succeed in stealing a single time, but I died everytime I tried... Was fun though.

[Duilliath]

Let me grab the single most important bit from your message:

I could initiate 1v2 or 1v3

Those are not team fights. Now can we get this silliness over with?

[AverageForumTroll]

Normal games shaco stomping doesn't count.